45-MY HUSBAND-Kumar Nessenbaum-Partner-3 Vaginal Births-Kavina, Kairo & Katana

In this episode, my husband Kumar speaks on our children's three very different birth experiences. He gives his take on our traumatic home birth and how that differed from his thoughts about our birth center birth. He also mentions the pros and cons of how much time you get off postpartum to support your partner after they have given birth. 

Disclaimer: This podcast is intended for educational purposes only with no intention of giving or replacing any medical advice. I, Kiona Nessenbaum, am not a licensed medical professional. All advice that is given on the podcast is from the personal experience of the storytellers. All medical or health-related questions should be directed to your licensed provider. 

Resources:

• Evidence Based Birth: https://evidencebasedbirth.com/ 
• Perinatal Support of Washington: https://perinatalsupport.org/ 
• Postpartum Support International: https://www.postpartum.net\ 
  1. Specific help for partners: https://www.postpartum.net/get-help/family/ 
• Paid Family Medical Leave-Washington State: https://paidleave.wa.gov/find-out-how-paid-leave-works/ 
• International Brotherhood of Electrical Workers:https://ibewyes.org/
  1. Apprenticeships: https://electricaltrainingalliance.org/locateaTrainingCenter 

Definitions:

• Meconium
• Co-Sleeping
• Anemia In Pregnancy 

Transcript

Kiona: 0:08

Hello, and welcome to Birth As We Know It. I am your podcast host, Kiona Nessenbaum. I have experienced birth as a doula, a student midwife, and as a mother of three amazing children with my husband and high school sweetheart by my side. After attending over 130 births, including my own, I've realized that each birth experience is truly unique. So make sure you subscribe and join me every week as we are guided through many different birth experiences through the lens of the storyteller. Please be aware that some of the stories can be triggering to hear, so feel free to pause, take a breath, and come back and listen whenever you're ready. With that said, let's prep ourselves to dive deep and get detailed about what really happens in the birth space. As a reminder, this podcast is intended for educational purposes only, and has no intention of giving or replacing any medical advice. All advice that is given on the podcast is from the personal experiences of the storytellers. All medical or health related questions should be directed to your licensed provider. Before we dive into this episode today, I want to wish everyone a happy new year. I also want to remind everyone that every day is a new one. So don't just hold yourself back until the beginning of a new year to make a change or a commitment to yourself. Each day brings an opportunity for you to have specific intentions. So don't hold back and know that it is never too late. With that said, I want to remind you to please listen to today's episode with the intention of sharing. Especially to partners of pregnant people, because these perspectives do not come around as often as they should. And I am super excited to say that this episode is very near and dear to my heart. Because my husband Kumar shares his perspectives on becoming a parent to our three beautiful kiddos. So let's go ahead and dive into today's episode. Hello, everybody, and welcome back to the Birth As We Know It podcast. Today, I am super excited to finally have my wonderful husband, Kumar Nessenbaum, on for an episode. In this episode, we will be talking about his perspectives on the birth of our three littles and just what it was like for him. What the pregnancies were like, what the labors were like, and how he feels afterwards as a parent. So hey, babe, welcome onto the Birth As We Know It podcast.

Kumar: 2:43

Yeah, thanks for having me. Just want to say you look fantastic today.

Kiona: 2:49

Hmm. Thank you. Even though we're both sitting in here in our pajamas.

Kumar: 2:54

Yeah, that's true.

Kiona: 2:57

Okay, so let's just go ahead and dive right in. I know that, I didn't really prep you with any questions because I wanted this to be super conversational and super genuine. So, let's just start off by you telling the listeners who you are and what you do and who is in your family, a. k. a. our family.

Kumar: 3:17

Yeah, my name is Kumar. Last name is Nessenbaum, as you know. And what I do, well, try to wake up with a positive attitude and, uh, go to work and do my thang. Nah I work at the, uh, University of Washington Medical Center. I work with the operations and maintenance. And, uh, we're working on making that hospital a better place. So, that's where I work and, uh, I already forgot the third question.

Kiona: 3:49

Who is in our family?

Kumar: 3:50

Oh, who's in our family? Well, my wonderful wife, Kiona Nessenbaum, and our three children. We have, let's start with the bottom, Katana, Kairo, and Kavina. Uh, we got three children, all of the births were very different. And I'm sure we will, uh, dive into that a little later on this podcast.

Kiona: 4:14

That we will. So let's go ahead and just actually dive into all the way back a decade ago to when we first found out about Kavina. Where were we in our lives? How did you feel when we found out? and yeah, let's start there.

Kumar: 4:35

Well, we were, we were young. We'll start there. We were young. I was a senior in high school. You were in your first year of college. And it happened unexpectedly. We were surprised with the news, but not very surprised with the reason for the news. And we, um, we took it and ran with it. I mean, you know, first time parents, we had to figure out everything. We had to figure out where we're going to give birth to our daughter, and what the doctor's appointments look like, and just really, Google was our best friend, and also just reaching out to other friends that were parents, which there weren't too many at that time, but there were a few. Uh, we learned Just what it was going to take to, uh, start prepping.

Kiona: 5:35

What were your emotions? The moment that I told you I was pregnant. Do you remember?

Kumar: 5:43

Yeah, I was terrified. I was looking at, um, nevermind. I was going to say, I was looking at, uh, flights to Nepal. I was going to go back to the homeland and go hide.

Kiona: 5:57

Oh my gosh.

Kumar: 5:59

no, I mean, of course we were nervous, uh, being so young, we didn't know what the future had for us. We didn't know career wise, what we were going to do. We didn't know how our parents were going to react, that was a big one. You know, that was probably the scariest thing, it was the first thing I thought about was, what your dad was going to think, and what my dad already thought. And, what was going to happen, you know.

Kiona: 6:23

go into that a little bit. Like, how did our parents react from your perspective?

Kumar: 6:28

Can we cuss on your podcast or no?

Kiona: 6:30

Yes, yeah.

Kumar: 6:33

Your dad said, oh shit. And he, and he hung up, and I was like, oh my god. That could be my, uh, future father in law, and I think I disappointed him already.

Kiona: 6:44

I don't remember that. I don't

Kumar: 6:46

Yeah, straight up, we called him at about 2 a. m. And he's like, What? Cause he knew something was up at 2 a. m. You don't call to say good morning or hello at 2 a. m. And so when you called, he was like, What's going on, Kiona? And, uh you he said, Dad, uh, me and Kumar need to talk to you. Can we come over? Then he went, Oh shit. And that's all I remember, and I was like, shaking. Because I was like, oh my god. How do you, How does a senior in high school tell his girlfriend's dad that we have just conceived a child? So, that was scary. I mean, uh, our parents were disappointed with us. But, I think it all worked out. Just the way it was supposed to.

Kiona: 7:37

What did your mom say?

Kumar: 7:40

She didn't say much, it was just a look of disappointment on her face. I mean, she was just, like, wow. You know, this is really happening.

Kiona: 7:49

The way that I remember the moment with your mom is, she did not even comprehend the fact that you were sexually active. Like that, I remember that being a thing for her.

Kumar: 8:02

Yeah, and I feel like thats a hard thing for parents to deal with, but thats another topic, I mean I feel like, you know, there's some things that parents know, but they don't want to think about. And that was probably one of them for her.

Kiona: 8:17

yeah, I think so. I also remember her saying a couple, I would say probably a couple months after we were into our pregnancy, your mom was saying that there were Nepali families that wanted kids and we should give our baby up for adoption

Kumar: 8:33

Yeah.

Kiona: 8:34

they couldn't conceive and all this stuff. And I was just like, Oh my gosh. Like, so it was, it was a lot to process because we were so young,

Kumar: 8:45

Right.

Kiona: 8:46

we were so young. So, When you found out that you were going to be a father, how did your mindset change about how to plan for the future?

Kumar: 8:56

I had to, I had to start looking at the career path and what was going to take us to that next level. And by that next level, I mean by creating our independence as a couple, uh, no longer attached to parents and no longer, you know, relying on others for The ability to move forward in life. And what I mean by that is, I was in college, uh, by the time Kavina was born, I was in college, no longer in high school, and, just kind of looking at my future, looking at how I could stay in school for four years, and throughout that four years, I'm still figuring out what exactly I want to do. Or, I could start looking into, the trades. The Skilled Trades. And that's kind of where my mind went, because I did all my research, you know, about government jobs, different things, and I found that if I were to go into the Skilled Trades Union, you know, apprenticeships, I found out that I could kind of further a career. While making 40 hours a week of a paycheck, if not more. But still, gain a license and an understanding of something that I was interested in, and that was electrical work. So, I found out they had this technical program for more of, uh, it's called low voltage electrician. And that's working on communication lines, internet, wifi, you know, telephone, security. Access systems, speakers, conference rooms, all kinds of stuff. Things that are techy that I'm into. So I found that program and uh, I couldn't wait to get started on that. I found out that they would pay me a livable wage right off the bat with zero experience and every six months I'd get a raise for three years. And then when I finished that program, I'd be a licensed low voltage electrician. So that's the route that I chose. as opposed to college and there's, there's, you know, any way you want to do it can be the right way. You just got to make sure you know what you're doing. So uh, yeah,

Kiona: 11:10

hmm. Yeah, and I think that looking back at that as, you know, because you were the youngest one in your program, and so that just goes to show that when you make a decision and you look at those that are around you, if everybody around you is older, it kind of shows that you're like ahead of your time in a way. And I feel like you making that decision when we were so young, it made it possible for us to move out of your parents home. And we were able to get our own apartment and raise our own little one. You know, it did take time. I think it was probably into your second year when we got our apartment. Because, we had just gotten married and Kavina was about to turn two. And so, right after we got married, we got married in July, and I think it was August when we got our own place. And started, you know, being our own little family triad. And being out on our own. So I will still forever thank you for making that decision because the time from finding out we were pregnant to getting to the apprenticeship itself was a journey because you were still in school and at first you thought that the way to go was to go into ROTC and become an officer through ROTC in the Air Force. And we soon found out that that wasn't the route that was good for us.

Kumar: 12:41

right. Well I'm see growing up in a family where everyone was real tight. The last thing I want to do is leave you guys behind. And so, you know, for some people it works, but for me, I want to be present and I want to be there every morning and wake up and look at you. And see our kids. And that was one issue I had is that, uh, the deployments, you know, I had to clarify that with them and they explained to me that no matter what position you hold, there's going to be deployments. And I just couldn't, I couldn't see myself being away from you guys. You know, the way I look at it and my philosophy is that you never know when it's your last day. You know, your last day on earth. And. There would be no bigger regret than me being away from you guys. And it'd be my last day, or any of our last days, you know? So I wanna be, I wanna live up every minute, every second. I wanna enjoy every hour with you and our kids and, and, you know, that's what I'm going to do. Is I'm gonna be here for you guys. So, that's just who I am and that's what I believe.

Kiona: 13:49

Yeah. So going into the pregnancy now, how was it for you when I was pregnant? Because you did what you did to wake up next to me every day. You worked hard to make sure that you were present during all things. You were there for all of the appointments. You were there for the birth. But let's talk about what it was like for you throughout my pregnancy with Kavina.

Kumar: 14:17

The pregnancy is an interesting stage because, especially when it's your first Child. uh, you know your very nervous, your trying to plan everything out and you're trying to make everything perfect and it doesn't work like that. You know, I mean, we were trying to be so perfect that we stressed ourselves out by getting certain things, certain strollers, certain this, certain that. And, it was interesting. You know, we had that combined with the midnight runs to Taco Bell. And, all of a sudden you want a churro and it's 2am and I don't know where to get a churro. And, you know, and it's funny because I mentioned food, but that's a big thing for your partner. I feel like there's the cravings, you know. And I, oh, and you know, now that I think about it, I definitely gained some weight during that time. I feel like I gained some weight. And what's horrible is, I'm gonna rephrase that and say, what's unhealthy is, that I never lost that weight. And when you have two kids, you need a exponentially, uh, you know, put an exponent on there because, My weight went up, it never went down, and we had another kid, and that weight went up again, and I can't run a mile at a good time no more. Nah, I'm just playing, but, yeah, definitely, I mean, there was a little weight gain, and, you know, seeing you uncomfortable is hard, when you get cramps, or you, you just feel, you wouldn't feel, Like you normally would, you'd be holding your stomach, or you know what I mean, like when the baby's moving and stuff, but that's a little further along in the pregnancy. I'm just trying to think back, you know, cause it's, Kavina is now 10 years old. So that was a decade ago. I'm trying to remember what exactly it like.

Kiona: 16:18

As a first time parent with Kavina, what were your thoughts like during the pregnancy about my emotions? Like how did people tell you I was going to be, how did you feel I was reacting, and then we'll go into what people around you, like our peers, were saying to you.

Kumar: 16:37

Yeah, I mean, people told me to just Be calm, and meditate, and let her get it out, whatever she wants to get out, because you know in a few hours she might not feel the same. So just be calm. And that's what I had to do. I mean, you know, honestly, you were you times two.

Kiona: 17:00

Mm

Kumar: 17:00

And, there were times where you would, your mood would go from up to down very quickly. And you just learn how to adjust. You know, you have to take a second and take a breath and say, and I'm speaking for myself, I would have to take a breath and say, Okay, listen, you know, she's carrying a little human, and that little human is, altering how she's feeling. The hormones are different, and just, don't take it too personal. That's what I would say, don't take it too personal, and do whatever you need to do. If you need to exercise, if you need to, play a video game, whatever it is, when you have time for yourself, take that time to kind of ease your mind. Because it'll be alright.

Kiona: 17:47

Yeah. I would say that you did really well at that through all of my pregnancies because it was like each pregnancy got worse with my hormones and I feel like I was like, Spitfirey even more each time, and I would be conscious of my emotions going up really fast and then coming down and then going up really fast and then coming down, but I couldn't control it, and I would turn around and be like, I'm sorry, babe, like, I didn't mean to do that, or, you know, like, when there was sometimes between the, the spitfire remark or, like, the snappy moment, I would turn around and be like, I'm sorry, you know, and just, I don't know, it was hard. It was definitely hard for me to, to see you have to take those breaths and be like, All right, I'm going to go over here for a little bit and then, uh, we can talk again.

Kumar: 18:37

You know when that switch happened? Like when you would turn around and, you know, kind of realize what was going on? After you had your cravings met. You'd be having a strawberry ice cream with whipped cream on top and you'd look at me and be like, Babe, I'm sorry. And then you start crying. And I was like, Oh my God, I don't know what to do.

Kiona: 19:02

So let's talk a little bit about what people around us were saying because we were so young. I've already mentioned on the podcast previously, like what people were saying to me while being pregnant and how I felt, but what did people say to you when you told them, oh yeah, my girlfriend's pregnant.

Kumar: 19:20

You know, the things that they would tell me is kind of things that they expected out of their lives. And they were kind of pouring that into me, which didn't make sense. Because people were upset telling me that, you know, now I wouldn't be able to travel, or now I wouldn't be able to, you know, I'm tied down, and this and that. I couldn't imagine anyone else I'd rather be tied down to than you and our family. I mean, that's the thing is, I take what people say with a grain of salt, because I know how I feel at the end of the day. And when somebody's telling me something that doesn't line up with my ambitions or my goals, I mean, that's going in one ear and coming out the other, because I don't really, you know, at the time it was probably different. You're coming out of high school and first year college. I probably listened a lot more, but to be completely honest, you know, whatever they said and then did, or, you know, whatever the case may be, there's a reason I don't remember it to this day. Cause it's irrelevant. Now, the positive things were good. I mean, people would talk about, now I'm going to have a little version of me and something that we created, you and I, and that was the better part of it. but yeah, I don't really remember too much negative because I feel like I pushed that to the back of my head and we've come so far now that it's, it's hard to remember what people were saying 10 years ago.

Kiona: 20:55

I agree. And I think that you're really good at that as well. Of just holding on to the things that are relevant and letting go of the things that are irrelevant. Because for me, I remember all the details. I remember all the experiences that people would say that were negative to me. And the reason why I feel like I remembered it so much is because It kind of propelled me forward. It pushed me forward and motivated me to kind of prove them wrong. There was a moment when you had told me you were hanging out with your guy friends and you guys were just like on the field at Rainier Beach just chatting and stuff and then one of your friends had said something about like, yada, yada, your baby mama, blah, blah, blah, and How, how, do you remember that? Because you're smiling. So tell me what you think about that conversation. Do you remember that one?

Kumar: 21:44

Yeah, someone called you my baby mama. I didn't hear it, my buddy told me, but my buddy actually stuck up for me. Because, I believe at the time, Man, you just, you're trying to have me dig people out on this

Kiona: 22:00

You don't have to

Kumar: 22:01

I didn't realize this was like a roast session or something. Like, I'm, I'm trying to go around this speed bump. but yeah, long story short, someone called you my baby mama. And, uh, I had another male friend there and he said, That's not just his baby mama, that's his girlfriend. And I think at the time, maybe. yeah, I don't know.

Kiona: 22:24

Anyways,

Kumar: 22:25

your cross eye trying to think about that for a second.

Kiona: 22:28

No, but that story in particular, that kind of revved me up back then because I knew,

Kumar: 22:35

Oh, hold on, hold on, real quick, Can we turn this around on this one?

Kiona: 22:40

you're so close to the

Kumar: 22:41

We're getting animated here. I was gonna ask you, how did that make you feel? It seems like it affected you a little more than it did me.

Kiona: 22:50

Yeah, it's just that story in particular revved me up back then because I knew and you also knew that I wasn't just your baby mama. You know, like I was more than that. Like even before we got pregnant, before we conceived, like we were until this day, we're so in love. We were so in love. We were head over heels for each other and like so back then when someone was like Oh, like even when someone was like, oh, is that your girlfriend? Like I would be like Yeah, I'm his wife

Kumar: 23:25

Oh, I got a funny story that, uh, that, sticks out to me. So, do you remember how we used to wear rings in high school? Like, you know, a promise ring.

Kiona: 23:36

Yeah, I bought you a promise ring cuz I was like you are not just my boyfriend sir.

Kumar: 23:40

But you bought me this, you bought me this ring that looked like it came off of a 40 year old man's finger. Like I'm talking about this thing was like, looked like it was solid gold. It was all thin, like it looked, it looked crisp, you know, it looked real nice. And I, I was working at Fred Meyers as a cashier at this time in high school. And this was before, before you were pregnant with Kavina. This was just when we were dating. And I was working the cash register and scanning some groceries and there was a married couple and they had their child with them and they were, you know, started up a conversation and we were just talking and I was scanning the groceries and obviously I had my giant golden ring on and, um, we were talking about weekend plans and I was like, yeah, you know, me and my girlfriend are thinking about going down to, uh, you know, check out the Seattle art museum or, you know, You know, going to watch a movie. I can't remember what, what exactly I was saying, but I kept saying that and I was like, yeah, you know, and then me and my girlfriend, I might take her out to the beach and, you might go watch the sunset and go hang out and maybe go to dinner, this and that. And I was like, I haven't seen my girlfriend in a while. You know, she's been busy. I've been busy. And the lady goes, excuse me, aren't you married? And I started laughing. I was like, no, no, no. This is a promise ring. I'm in high school. And the husband was like, see, that's why we need to mind our own business. We don't know what's going on out there. I was dying though, because I was, you know, I mean, it makes sense when you think about it. I'm over here wearing this ring. And people don't know the difference. You know, they just assume you're married.

Kiona: 25:24

they're thinking you're over here talking about your mistress,

Kumar: 25:26

Yeah, they thought I was married and I was making plans with my girlfriend.

Kiona: 25:30

yeah.

Kumar: 25:31

But

Kiona: 25:32

But that just, that just goes in to just show how much in love we were, like the fact that As a high school student.

Kumar: 25:40

Yeah.

Kiona: 25:41

You did not, because I remember getting you that ring because I was going off to college and I was like, I need everybody to know that you're taken. Like, you're mine, we're in love, like,

Kumar: 25:50

That was back, that was back when I had a six pack, too.

Kiona: 25:53

Yeah, that was, that was, you know, but because I was so in love with you and I wasn't trying to claim you as my property by any means, but I just wanted to express my love for you and for you to see, look down at your hand and see, ah, she's thinking of me like I have her, she's with me. Cause I also wore a promise ring. And it was also gold. And so we, you know, we basically looked like we were married, but Like if someone was just to look at our hands, but that just goes to show how in love we were, like the fact that as high school and early college students, we weren't like, I ain't wearing no ring, you know, we were all for it. And so when we did conceive, Kavina, it like was just kind of onto the next step, you know? And yes, I feel like it was shocking, but I feel like we handled it really well with us both being so young and being like, all right. Here we go. We gotta figure this out.

Kumar: 26:54

Yeah,

Kiona: 26:55

Yeah.

Kumar: 26:56

agree.

Kiona: 26:57

yeah. But, so before we dive too, too far into, like, other stories of our lives, let's go ahead and talk about the birth of Kavina. What details do you remember from Kavina's birth at all?

Kumar: 27:09

I remember, so I remember it was the middle of the night, which is how it usually starts.

Kiona: 27:16

Mm mm.

Kumar: 27:16

It was the middle of the night and I, was it your water, did your water break?

Kiona: 27:25

Mm mm.

Kumar: 27:26

Man, I'm over here making up memories of so long ago.

Kiona: 27:29

No, we were at your mom's

Kumar: 27:32

yeah, yeah, we're We're sleeping and something changed. I remember at like 2 a. m. you woke me up.

Kiona: 27:38

was, I probably woke you up at 2 a. m. Yeah. Sorry. Go ahead.

Kumar: 27:42

and you were telling me that you were Why don't, why don't I ask you? What happened?

Kiona: 27:53

Because this is your podcast, babe. I already told my

Kumar: 27:57

Man, I was trying to jog my memory. So,

Kiona: 28:00

So, I can give you some hints.

Kumar: 28:02

and I'll just jump in cuz I got a

Kiona: 28:05

hmm.

Kumar: 28:06

I remember I can jump into the, The hospital portion when we were there and, you know, I remember that vividly, but I don't remember the lead up that much. I do remember we burnt we had a CD

Kiona: 28:19

hmm.

Kumar: 28:20

that we made with relaxing music and things like that.

Kiona: 28:25

Mm hmm. That's when we were still using LimeWire, I think.

Kumar: 28:28

yeah.

Kiona: 28:30

Yep, so we burnt a CD, and then, when we were on our way to the hospital, We just had to stop one block away

Kumar: 28:38

Yeah, we had to stop one block away to pick up my best friend, Jon Alvarez.

Kiona: 28:43

Mm hmm.

Kumar: 28:44

Thats my main man right there. Shoutout to Jon Alvarez.

Kiona: 28:48

Shout out to Jonny.

Kumar: 28:49

And my goddaughter, Zariah.

Kiona: 28:52

Mm hmm.

Kumar: 28:53

Yeah, uh, we picked up my best friend. And he got in the back seat, and he had soccer tryouts the next day for college team. Which he missed. Uh, to be there with me, which I'm thankful for, cause, you know, in moments like that, you want your siblings, and He's probably the closest thing I have to sibling, him and his brothers, and a few other people, but um, Yeah, I just wanted someone there on my side, you know? And, so he joined up, we picked him up, and we headed to the hospital. We went to Swedish.

Kiona: 29:31

Mm hmm.

Kumar: 29:32

And we got to Swedish. And then, we, we um, we got checked in, and They checked you out and made sure that you were, you were ready or getting close so that we could go to a room. And I believe we went to a room right after that and, um, yeah, it started taking off from there after a while.

Kiona: 29:55

What are the parts that stick out the most from the labor?

Kumar: 29:59

Just how you were feeling, you know, as a partner, it's so interesting because you want to be there as best you can. for your partner going through labor. And trying to figure that out, what you can do is the hardest part because sometimes by vocalizing, you know, by saying, or by conversating, if I'm asking you, what can I do best for you? You're like, babe, just don't talk to me right now. Just, I don't want to talk. You know, and in moments like that, I feel like as a partner, you need to step in and see what you can do more than what you can say. Because Sometimes there may be something that she enjoys, like if you, if you have your hand on their back, or you're putting pressure, something like that, uh, they may enjoy that more, and they can't think of that in the moment, because they're in pain, you know, or in discomfort. So, I'm saying all that, but I was sitting really far away, because I was scared, in the room, and it was hot in there, my glasses were fogging up, and um, We did, we did pretty good. I mean, you had some family that came in, right?

Kiona: 31:09

Mm hmm.

Kumar: 31:10

From your side.

Kiona: 31:11

Yeah. Yeah, my sister, Monae, was the one that was primarily there because I remember in particular there was this moment when I was like, oh babe, I think my water broke. And he looked down and he freaked out because it wasn't water.

Kumar: 31:26

Yeah, yeah, that's

Kiona: 31:27

Um. It was blood

Kumar: 31:30

Yeah, I always had this little queasy feeling with blood. And so, when you said your water broke, I almost started clapping, then I looked down. And I saw some blood, and, uh, Yeah, you know, I mean, it is what it is. We know what we're doing that day. And, um, yeah.

Kiona: 31:49

That was the moment you stepped back.

Kumar: 31:52

That's the moment I stepped back, acted like I was cleaning my glasses, and left them off.

Kiona: 31:56

Yeah, you left them off and then you kind of like tucked yourself back into the corner of the room. You were still there. I could still see you, but you made sure to stay above the waistline from then on.

Kumar: 32:08

Yeah, I mean, I wasn't the type of person to be so involved that I was like watching the head crown and come out like that, you know, to each his own. And you know, you don't need me in a hospital bed next, me watching that and then passing out and waking up in my own, in my own room, you know, that wouldn't be good. So I just, I figured what's best for me in that moment. I looked at you, and the first thing I did was make sure that you were taken care of. And I saw that you had your sister and, You had your bonus mom there.

Kiona: 32:39

Mm hmm. Mirla.

Kumar: 32:41

So, I knew that you were taken care of. And you didn't ask for me to be next to you in that moment. And so, I respected that, and I didn't want a crowd, and I knew that, for me, the best thing I could do to give you my best self is to observe from the side. And that's what I did. And then once the baby was there, Kavina was there, I got real close and

Kiona: 33:07

And then what did the nurse say to you?

Kumar: 33:11

Oh, the nurse, the nurse did me dirty. The nurse, as soon as Kavina came out, she looked me dead in my eye and said, you look just like your dad. And I just burst into tears. I was That just, like, melted my heart. I mean, you, you think about it. And I'll explain something else here. You think about it, and this is your child. Like, especially your firstborn. Like, this moment right here. Kind of shows why we're put on Earth. You know, to keep it spinning. To, to, to create life. And I'm looking at you. And I see the girl that I've just envisioned my whole life with. And we have this little person here. This little creature. She was like blue and green and like turquoise and she just came out and I don't even know how they said she looked at me. It made me like re evaluate myself for a second there. But um, nah, I mean, in that moment to see This little life that we created together. It was, it was so special and I was so tense, you know. And then when she said that, it kind of let all the tension out. And, I just burst into tears. I mean, I, there's nothing else I could do in that point. And, it felt good, you know. It felt, it felt vulnerable., but, I can only imagine how you felt in that moment. How did you feel?

Kiona: 34:44

I felt, uh, in shock. I felt happy that it was over, but not like because it was so horrible, but because I finally got to meet her.

Kumar: 34:56

Yeah.

Kiona: 34:57

Because one thing that we've talked about in the past is how different it is during pregnancy for a partner. Because, yes, you know you're having a child, but I feel like you seeing Kavina for the first time was the moment that you kind of realized, Oh my gosh, I'm a father. And For me, I noticed from the moment I peed on a stick because my body was already changing, you know, like I was having hormonal shifts, and then it got even stronger for me to realize I was becoming a mom when I felt her kick, when I felt her move, and I tried to involve you in that in the pregnancy, and there were some times when she would kick your hand, but, you know, it,

Kumar: 35:35

I remember that

Kiona: 35:36

it, was a lot. Yeah, and then, of course, like, the ultrasound, finding out that she was a girl, like, actually seeing her was a whole thing, and then, yeah, her being in our arms was amazing.

Kumar: 35:50

Yeah, definitely.

Kiona: 35:52

Yeah, so now that we touched on Kavina's birth, let's talk a little bit about postpartum. How was postpartum for you as a first time parent? What was it like to see me breastfeed? What was it like to change diapers? What was that like for you?

Kumar: 36:11

It was surprising. It was surprising because I have never seen you pull your boob out in public. Until you started breastfeeding, you became like an advocate. For women to pull their boobs out in public and I was shocked. I was like, what are you doing? We're at Olive Garden and you had your whole boob out. Even your dad was like Kiana put some over your boob and you're like, you know what this is natural This is what we're supposed to do. And I was like, my life has forever changed Plenty of arguments but plenty of understanding as time went on That was really interesting, you know, to see, to see something that I felt like I didn't have to share it before. Okay, now I got to share your boobs with this little poop butt. Now on a real note, that was, that was an interesting phase trying to, you know, figure out breastfeeding because also for yourself I know that latching. Was, was a challenge. As far as, you know, The pain and all that. As you're learning. And I could have just made that up right now. Was latching a challenge for you?

Kiona: 37:40

A little bit in the beginning, yeah. But it wasn't, it wasn't a big enough challenge for it to impact my hope and desire and drive to continue to breastfeed. It was like a learning curve.

Kumar: 37:52

Okay. Yea I know that and then, um, Yeah, I mean, Learning how to hold the baby. Supporting the neck. That was all new to me. Uh, we did take that educational class on newborns. And I'm glad we did that, we learned, I learned, um, how to better hold the baby, support the baby's neck, how to tend to the baby more, and changing diapers was definitely interesting. Especially in the beginning when, um, what was that called, meconium or something? Yeah, when the baby's got that. That interesting poop. Yeah, um, it was all new.

Kiona: 38:34

I agree. And I think it was probably a little bit easier for me to adjust to the caring and nurturing of a child because I was not an only child and you are an only child. So I feel like me not being an only child and coming from a large family exposed me to being around babies more. And our baby was your first experience, so.

Kumar: 38:59

Yeah, definitely.

Kiona: 39:01

Mm hmm. Um, okay, now let's fast forward to Kairo. So, fast forward four years. How was it finding out that we were pregnant with Kairo? Because we had just moved into the home that we bought. I think we found out maybe one month after we lived here.

Kumar: 39:20

Yeah.

Kiona: 39:21

How was that for you?

Kumar: 39:24

It was interesting because Something that happened inside of me. We found out We were, we were pregnant. We found out you were pregnant. And I don't know what it was, but when you showed me the test result, the first thing I did, I had to get away from everyone and close myself into the bathroom, and lock the door. And I don't know what it was, but I just looked at myself in the mirror and I just shared a moment where, like, I thought about everything. I thought about my little daughter and I thought about how she's my world. And how much my world was going to change, how much our world was going to change. And I was hoping for the best, you know. But it's such an odd feeling. When you put all your energy, all your time, all your emotion into one child. And then you have that moment of realizing that they're no longer going to be that only child. And for me, that hit me hard because I grew up as the only child. You know, I don't have any siblings. Just me and my parents. And so, that was that moment that I realized that Kavina is going to have a sibling. And this is amazing. She got what I always wanted, you know. And this is the start of something new. And in the back of my mind I spoke to all the gods. I was talking from Zeus, to Jesus, to Buddha, to Poseidon. And I said, please give me a son. Please give me a son. Because a little insight is that, our last name, Kiona and I, Nessenbaum. That last name, there are very few of us. Very few. And, Uh, dates back to uh, my grandfather who came from Russia. He was in an orphanage and he misspelled our last name when he was coming to America. And so, there are not many Nessenbaums. If you want to test out that theory, go ahead and go on Facebook and type in Nessenbaum the way it's spelled here. And you will not find many people. I mean, there's, there was a handful and Not many now, to this day. So anyways, I just was really hoping for a son. At least this second time. So that we could pass on our last name. And so, fast forward and we get the news that we're having a boy and I had to contain my excitement because I was with my daughter and everything was brand new. And she was just, you know, finding out the gender the same day she was at the appointment with us. And I could almost jump up and down because I was like, I got my boy. You know, I got my best friend who's Kavina, and I'm gonna have my little boy. You know, life couldn't be any better.

Kiona: 42:29

I love hearing that perspective from you because I never got it. I never got that insight of you having that private moment. Cause how I remember it is you going into the bathroom and just taking a moment and maybe letting a couple tears shed, you know, and I know both of us had talked about after you had had that moment, how our lives are going to change and how it's going to be different when we have another kid because Kavina was all of our world, right? And I know that a lot of concern for parents is, am I going to have enough love to spread? Am I going to be able to love this second child the same way I love my first? Am I going to have less love for my first when my second child comes? You know, like there's always that, that concern because you love so hard. And especially knowing, that we were expecting our second by the time we found out it was a boy, we were excited. Everybody was excited because we knew how important our last name passing on was. And we knew that we wanted to have a boy, even though we would have been happy with a girl. We would have been ecstatic to just have a healthy baby and just be happy. But the fact that we got what we wanted that second time around, once again, like healthy baby, healthy baby, we were stoked. We were pumped. So, I'm happy to hear that moment that you shared because I, I saw it from a different view. And now I got a little bit of the inside scoop.

Kumar: 44:05

And you know what? Shout out to your podcast. Cause I feel like a lot of people, Have gotten, Perspectives and things out. That others around them might not have known about.

Kiona: 44:20

Hmm.

Kumar: 44:21

So I think that it's great what you're doing. And I appreciate you and I see your dedication and I hope everyone else sees it because you put in time into this podcast that can't be replaced. And you're making the best out of it, you know. You're making sure your family's good. And then you're taking care of what you want to do. So, 2023 has created something that I think you're going to enjoy a lot in 2024. And beyond.

Kiona: 44:59

Thank you, babe. That means a lot. That does mean a lot because this is definitely, you know, we've discussed it off the mic quite a bit, how much of a passion this is for me and because it is, it creates a space of storytelling and hearing other people's perspectives and views. And that's why I have you on is because I'm really excited to hear these things. There are some things that we've already talked about that we haven't had the chance to actually sit down and discuss and feel together. So I'm happy that you're on today.

Kumar: 45:31

Happy to be here

Kiona: 45:32

Okay, let's dive back in to Kairo. So choosing a name was interesting because when we realized that we were having a boy, of course, one of the first things that we thought of was a junior, right?

Kumar: 45:45

Yeah, that's true.

Kiona: 45:46

Whether or not we wanted to have another Kumar Nesenbaum, Kumar Nesenbaum II, and we were playing with the idea for a little while. And then we also realized that we needed another K name because we had our first K baby out of love, you know, Kavina, and then we're like, well, let's just keep it going. And we were looking for K names for boys and a really common name that I was excited about was Kaiden. But then when I was pregnant, I had had a distant cousin have a child and they named their son Aiden. And I was no longer about it. You know, like, I didn't want to have an Aiden and a Kaiden. I didn't want that. And Kaiden is a very popular name now, so I'm kind of happy that we have Kairo, because he is his own little being. There are other Kairos out there, for sure, but I feel like our Kairo is our Kairo, and I like that.

Kumar: 46:45

Yeah, definitely. I really enjoyed picking the name of Kairo or I should say picking the name of our son because that was a fun process trying to figure out a name that starts with K that is unique and when we finally decided on that name, it was pretty cool. The other thing is we started doing the middle names. With L. For no.

Kiona: 47:13

And you don't have a middle name

Kumar: 47:15

No, I don't. No.

Kiona: 47:16

Yeah, so since you don't have a middle name, I feel like that was probably a little stressful for you as well as a little fun because I was very adamant about our kids having middle names.

Kumar: 47:27

Yeah, my thing was that, you know, our last name is so long already, that when you add that first name, and then you put a middle name in there, and that last name, I was worried our child wasn't going to be able to write down their name until about third grade. To be honest, because when you got Kairo Legend Nessenbaum, that's a, that's a pretty long name.

Kiona: 47:54

It is. it fits him well

Kumar: 47:57

Yeah, and he got it, I mean he, you know, he did just fine, he got it early on in school and once he started writing.

Kiona: 48:07

So, when it comes to Kairo's pregnancy, was there anything that you noticed differently than when I was pregnant with Kavina? Or anything that you remember?

Kumar: 48:17

I know the cravings were different, you wanted, it wasn't the same kind of foods. Wasn't it the cotton candy with Kairo? Or am I thinking of Kavina?

Kiona: 48:29

That's Kavina.

Kumar: 48:31

Yeah, do you want to talk a little bit about that story?

Kiona: 48:35

The cotton candy story? I think I might have mentioned it in Kavina's episode, episode one, but Yeah, we, when I was pregnant with Kavina, just reverting back to her really quick, I would always ask Kumar to take me to Toys R Us when it was still around, or no, Babies R Us, when it was still around in the South Center area, because they had a cotton candy machine on their exit doors, and you could just put in a dollar or two dollars and it would make you fresh cotton candy. And so we went and got some cotton candy and, you know, we were being all cute and I had like some cotton candy in my mouth and I like left some out, obviously, you know, like it was a big piece. I had bitten one side and I was like leaning over to Kumar so he could bite from the other side and boy, did he bite because he, um, I obviously couldn't talk because I was holding. This cotton candy in my mouth, but he bit down and when he did he actually got my lip and he wouldn't let go. He wouldn't let go.

Kumar: 49:40

was some good cotton candy.

Kiona: 49:42

And I was like trying to tell him to let go and you were pulling to try to pull the candy away and

Kumar: 49:49

and I had your whole bottom lip in my mouth

Kiona: 49:53

Yeah, I ended up like laugh crying and you just started cracking up because

Kumar: 49:57

Well. I bit down, and you know how sometimes in cotton candy, if it gets like, overdone in some parts, it's kind of like thick, like it condenses together?

Kiona: 50:07

Mm hmm.

Kumar: 50:07

thought I had one of those pieces and it was your bottom lip.

Kiona: 50:11

Yeah.

Kumar: 50:12

So I literally bit down, and I went to pull away, and like, her bottom lip, like she's coming with me, and I'm like, what? What, you want a kiss? And little did I know I was chomping down on your lip.

Kiona: 50:25

I think you even, like, broke skin.

Kumar: 50:29

I think I might have. And I feel horrible.

Kiona: 50:32

But it's a good story to tell.

Kumar: 50:33

But you can't, you can't pass up on that blue raspberry cotton candy. I miss Toys R Us and I miss, I miss a lot of things. You know, from our childhood growing up, it's amazing how things change so fast. And how things are here one day and they're gone the next. Like, there's so many memories of Toys R Us with me and my dad and all that but we'll save that for my podcast.

Kiona: 50:58

Your podcast that you create one day?

Kumar: 51:00

Yeah. In 2024

Kiona: 51:03

Mm. Okay. But yeah, let's go ahead and go back to Kairo and talk about if there were any differences. Like, yes, you know, I did have different cravings. What I remember is Oreos and Gatorade. Like those are my go to. I remember waking up literally, like, in the middle of the night. To crack open and chug one of those, like, mini Gatorades. That's, like, half the size of the individual ones, you know? Like, the small ones that kids get, like, at soccer practice or something. I would just chug one of those, but it would have to be from the fridge, because it would have to be crisp and cold.

Kumar: 51:36

your go-to flavor with the gatorade?

Kiona: 51:38

The blue one.

Kumar: 51:40

The kind of like the ice blue looking one glacier.

Kiona: 51:44

No, it was just the blue one. It was,

Kumar: 51:47

Oh, I remember that one. That's the one with the, uh, is it pomegranate or acai Bear.

Kiona: 51:54

No, that one's like the purple y blue. It was just like the, the most common blue one. Maybe it is Glacier, but not like the, the whitish blue one.

Kumar: 52:05

Okay.

Kiona: 52:06

Anyways, so there's that. And then let's just go ahead and dive into the differences of how you felt the care was. Because we were with a midwife and we were planning a home birth that time around. Like, how did you feel when we first decided to do a home birth?

Kumar: 52:23

Initially, when you decided that, you'd be more comfortable doing a home birth, I was, I was a little worried. and I was worried because I didn't have any knowledge or information on it. And, I came up with all these ideas, like the hospital has everything we need. We're safe there. We can You know safer there because if anything goes wrong, we're in the hospital and they can they can take care of us And so when you came up with that idea, I was kind of shocked You know, and I may have had a strong opinion at the time but Ultimately, I thought about it and I said hey You know what? I'm not the one pushing the baby out. I'm the one supporting the person pushing the baby out. So You know, I was totally for whatever you wanted to do. I was still nervous, but at the same time, whatever makes you the most comfortable. Because you're, doing the big act. Baby's gonna be coming out of you. So.

Kiona: 53:20

Yeah. So, and that was a little bit of a battle in the beginning, well, not necessarily a battle, but I would say it was a strong discussion because I was so, so, so strongly wanting to do something different than the hospital because I felt that, you know, I was supported well in the hospital when we had Kavina, but it was just a lot of, a lot going on. And there was a lot going on, a lot of beeping machines, a lot of coming in and out, a lot of people I didn't know, right? And so I really wanted to be surrounded by people that I knew. I wanted everybody there. I just really wanted something different. And so we hired a midwife and the awesome thing was all of our visits were at home. And it also gave you the luxury to be like, all right, this part of the conversation doesn't necessarily pertain to me, so I'm just going to go hang out with Kavina, or I'm going to make some lunch while you guys are talking. You know, you didn't feel stuck in the visits, which was nice. Not saying that you did feel stuck, but you had the luxury to move around. yeah. And so, let's talk about Kairo's birth now. what do you remember about Kairo's birth?

Kumar: 54:28

It was definitely, uh, nerve wracking. Because we did the water birth where you were in the bathtub in our bedroom, bathroom. It was, it was kind of overwhelming at first. There was a lot of, it was crowded because of course it's not a hospital patient room. It is a household bathroom. So it was crowded with the people in there, but I just remember putting my arm around you, rubbing your hair, rubbing your shoulders. And when you would push, I would put my, my arm around your, you know, your chest and I would be behind you while you were in the bathtub. And I would just let you squeeze on my arm or my hand until Kairo was out, and, at the time, you were, uh, what is that, iron deficient? Or what?

Kiona: 55:23

Mm hmm. Anemic.

Kumar: 55:24

You were anemic. So, there was a little concern, and so, after you had pushed Kairo out, and he was there, I had my moment, once again where, I just held Kairo and I looked, you know, looked at him and was so excited. But then you mentioned that as we were sitting there, you mentioned that you were hungry. So you wanted to eat something. And so the midwife or the midwife's assistant, I can't remember, gave you a banana. And as you ate the banana, you started changing. Your face started changing. And we didn't know what was going on, and then you started nodding off. And that freaked everyone out. And you actually passed out. And so I remember them giving you oxygen. We had to get on the phone with 911. And I believe what happened was that the blood that you had went to digest. And so since you were low on iron, it caused you to faint. And so we were all freaking out, we called 9 1 1, the paramedics came, they came into our house, they walked up the steps, they got you, and they had to like put covers on you, because you were still nude, I mean you just gave birth. And we had firefighters, we had paramedics, and we took you to the hospital and I followed. I was in my car with my family and Kavina and we took you and I just remember sitting in the waiting room just not having a clue and being nervous and thinking about how my fears came true. You know, in my mind, this happened because we had the home birth, but I didn't have any room to be upset. I was more just in shock of what was going on. So, it all worked out. I gave you IV and they had you rest in the ER and um, Yeah. Very scary though.

Kiona: 57:40

Yeah. And I remember

Kumar: 57:41

so so many emotions.

Kiona: 57:42

yeah, there were definitely a lot of emotions, and I remember you telling me afterwards, because I didn't realize, obviously, like, I was not coherent, as all of that was going on, and I didn't realize that the only voice that I would respond to when I did have my fainting spells was yours.

Kumar: 57:59

Yeah, that's true.

Kiona: 58:01

Mm hmm. Mm hmm. And And, you know, you were trying to stay calm, you were trying to still be present in the way that you felt in that time made the most sense, and yeah, people were just like shoving the phone in your face, I guess, and telling you to call 911 when they were trying to figure out what was going on, and, then we left, and we came back a few hours later. We were only in the ER for probably about three hours, I think.

Kumar: 58:28

Right.

Kiona: 58:30

And we came home and then had to deal with a newborn.

Kumar: 58:35

Yeah.

Kiona: 58:37

Yeah. How does that experience impact your view of home birth?

Kumar: 58:47

I feel like our scenario was unique because you were anemic and, what happened could have been a unique experience and it might not happen again for you if we had a home birth in the future, but it still, it still makes me a little uneasy. With the home birth just because we experienced that, now if we granted if we went into that and we didn't experience that and it Turned out fine. Maybe my opinion would have been different But I just had this feeling that something was gonna happen and it actually did so it's hard to ask me how I feel about that when my only experience is Something happened and we needed medical attention and where did you end up you ended up back in the hospital?

Kiona: 59:36

hmm.

Kumar: 59:37

You know, that's just, that's my opinion, but for other people, maybe it would work out fine.

Kiona: 59:43

Mm hmm. And I agree. I think that in the beginning, it had skewed my perception of home birth as well. Just because I was like, why is this happening to me? Home birth should be simple. And I was trusting my provider. And my provider was amazing. We were very communicative on where I stood with my anemia, and we were working really hard on bringing up my numbers. And as of my last blood draw, my numbers were coming up, but slowly. But my last blood draw prior to giving birth was I think two or three weeks prior. So my numbers could have dropped more versus going up, you know? So we kind of just went with the flow and, I was really bummed that we had to get transferred to the hospital because everything up until that point was beautiful. It went as planned, there was nothing wrong. It was great.

Kumar: 1:00:36

Now I will say that if you're looking for that middle ground, like you're not necessarily comfortable in a hospital, but you're a little worried about doing it at home. Our experience with our third baby with a birth center was amazing. It made you feel like you were at home with a ton of space, with a ton of professionals. I mean, we had professionals when we did our home birth, but what I'm saying is that like, you have all the tools and equipment at your hands. You have medicine balls, you have a hot, you know, basically a hot tub, a tub. Um, you have a nice bed, you have lots of areas to move around. I felt like the birth center was incredible. And it, and it made that bridge between the two of a hospital and a home birth. So that's just, I'm just putting that out there that I did really enjoy that and seeing you enjoy that also.

Kiona: 1:01:37

Mm hmm. Yeah, and I also really liked the birth center birth too. Um, but before we dive into Katana's birth, let's talk a little bit about how we felt, or how you felt. Postpartum after Kairo, because it was a little bit different. It was our second time around. How, how did we adjust a little bit more to that?

Kumar: 1:01:57

you know, the second time is always, a little more convenient because you know how to put on a diaper. You know how to hold the baby. You usually know when the baby's crying, it's time to feed, and, or the diaper's wet. Or, you know, there's, there's certain things you, you realize a lot faster. Because you're not new to it. Now the interesting part was, of course, trying to give our youngest attention. I mean not, I'm sorry, not our youngest, our oldest attention. When we have our new, our newborn here. You know, and figuring out co sleeping again, and all kinds of things like that. But, you know, it worked out fine. We, we made it work.

Kiona: 1:02:49

Yeah, I think it went well and at that point I feel like you were used to the boob coming out anyway, so it wasn't a problem anymore by the time we had our son.

Kumar: 1:03:00

Still hard for, uh, for me to get used to the boob coming out in public, but, um, You know, in private, that's a whole different story, but that's, uh, yeah.

Kiona: 1:03:14

Yeah, but we kept on keeping on, kept going. okay, one thing I want to talk about with Kairo that we hadn't mentioned yet is the decision of circumcision, which could be political to some, um, you know, everybody has their own opinion, but I feel like that was a hard thing for us to talk about when it came to having a son, like what it, what it was that we were going to do and what we went through with. So

Kumar: 1:03:42

Yeah, I mean, for us, for me personally, it's just, Honestly, what do you go to? It's what you know. And, what I know is that the men in my family, Um, Had circumcision done, you know, circumcised, including myself. So, uh, not to give you a visual or anything. But, um, Yeah, anyways, so, I just figured, why not? Hey, I got it done, why not do it for my son?

Kiona: 1:04:16

yeah,

Kumar: 1:04:16

It was pretty simple for me, least.

Kiona: 1:04:19

yeah, it was really simple for you and it was hard for me because I was also In an environment, because by the time I had Kairo, I was a birth worker hardcore, I was, you know, talking about things like circumcision, breastfeeding, where to birth, all of that stuff all the time. And so there's, there was a lot of conversation around, like with people I was supporting around whether or not they were going to circumcise their babies and the reasons for it and the reasons against it. And so I kept bringing all of that back to you. And. That made it a little bit challenging. We had some interesting discussions. I wouldn't call them arguments, but they were just discussions of us trying to understand each other's point of view. And in the end, we followed through with your side of getting him circumcised because, you know, I am not a man, you know, I don't have a penis. If, if I did, we wouldn't be here right now. Um,

Kumar: 1:05:16

I wouldn't be looking through this camera at you right now. We might be homies but not interest's.

Kiona: 1:05:23

yeah, um, so at that point I had to step back and let you lead in that decision, which I feel confident and comfortable with and our son is totally fine, you know, and again, that's a very personal decision that people make and, I feel like every single person has their own background on why they make a decision and that was ours. So, the only reason why I wanted to bring that up was because it was a topic of discussion for us with having a boy. Now we can go ahead and dive into Katana. how do you perceive Katana's conception? How was that for you?

Kumar: 1:06:03

That was great.

Kiona: 1:06:12

Is that all you're gonna say?

Kumar: 1:06:14

You're talking about conceiving her, right?

Kiona: 1:06:16

Yeah.

Kumar: 1:06:21

Nah, I'm just kidding. Um, what exactly are you asking?

Kiona: 1:06:27

The journey. Do you remember how long it took?

Kumar: 1:06:32

trying.

Kiona: 1:06:34

Yeah.

Kumar: 1:06:35

Yeah, it um, surprisingly took a little longer than the other two kids.

Kiona: 1:06:43

Mm hmm.

Kumar: 1:06:44

And, the thing that we found, and it's interesting, we were talking about this because I was talking to a friend who is now going to start trying for a baby, their first. What I found is that when you, when you focus, hyper focus on everything around trying to have a baby, you seem to disappoint yourself more often than less because when you're expecting something, you can expect that you may not get the result you're looking for and you may end up disappointed. And that's what we started off doing. You know, with our other two, when you think about it, we were Essentially just if it happens, that's what's supposed to happen. But when we made it a point with our third to try and try and try, we led ourselves to be disappointed month after month and it wasn't happening and we're getting more critical on this waiting. And eventually it did happen and we were excited, but In reality, if that went on for a year, that could cause depression and that could cause all kinds of issues and maybe question ourselves. What's going on? Why can't we have a child? Question our health. It can, it can take a big toll. So, I mean, my piece of advice I'd put out there is that just go with the flow and, and take it, you know, day by day and, and hope that, You have it, but don't count the days and count the numbers and be so critical and hard on yourselves. It just, it causes a Unnecessary issue in the relationship when you could just, you know, take it one day at a time.

Kiona: 1:08:28

Yeah, and I think that we were actually really close to that depressive state, at least I was, because it did take a year.

Kumar: 1:08:36

Oh, is that what it. how long it took?

Kiona: 1:08:37

to conceive Katana. Yeah, it did take us a year, but we had just, just passed that year mark when we found out about her. It was like 12 months and then on the 13th month is when we found out that we were, we conceived because I did at some points come and talk to you and be like, are we okay? I don't think that we need to go see a doctor, but like, know you're not shooting blanks. We have kids. Like, you know, like it makes you think about whether or not you're healthy and you're fine and your body's okay.

Kumar: 1:09:07

Right. It starts making a question of everything, like am I healthy enough? Do I have enough nutrients and vitamins? Do, you know, is it my age? Is it this? Is it that? Instead of just being like, you know. Let's um, Let's just see what happens.

Kiona: 1:09:26

Yeah. So let's go ahead and talk about the moment that we did find out about Katana. How did you feel? Because I knew that I was I knew how I felt, but I want to know how you felt, because we had two kids at that point. You know, Kairo was three, almost four. Kavina was seven, almost eight.

Kumar: 1:09:46

I felt excited, I felt nervous, just as with our other kids. I feel like reality really sets in when you see that test result, because it really speaks to you that this is a lifetime decision. This is, you're bringing in a child that's going to be alongside you for your whole life. and I felt like I did with all of our kids where I just felt a rush of emotions. I felt shocked. I felt excited. I felt nervous, felt happy. Yeah, pretty much what I always feel with our last ones. It's just a different, it's a different, stage though, because as you have more kids, it's not as nervous, I would say, but you're still always shocked. The air feels different, the, the, you know, everything's different, your vision is different. When you find out that day, like, the whole world is just different that day you find out. So, it's interesting.

Kiona: 1:10:46

Yeah. And then, going into, Katana's pregnancy, I felt like it was a lot different because I was on the inside of it. But as being on the outside, did you realize anything different about me? Because at this time, COVID was in full swing. Before we found out that we were pregnant, we were actually finally going to book our honeymoon and we were going to go to Mexico.

Kumar: 1:11:12

right.

Kiona: 1:11:13

And when we found out I was pregnant, we were like, oh, we can still go. And then we were thinking about COVID because we had booked it before COVID was really rampant.

Kumar: 1:11:24

Mm hmm.

Kiona: 1:11:25

And so all of that was happening. So do you remember how your emotions were around any of those decisions and things at that time?

Kumar: 1:11:35

Feel like the whole world didn't. Didn't really know what to expect, and it changed the whole idea of how does the healthcare system work. And of course I work in a hospital, so I, I see what's going on and how protected we need to be, or we, we needed to be at that time with our day to day activities. I mean, we were wearing N95s, walking around the hospital, just through our regular hallways, and so it was hard to know what to expect. That time around, it was a really interesting time, but, it was just standard procedure. It's just same thing with wearing masks, less people in the rooms, in the delivery room and, doctors visits and everything were interesting,

Kiona: 1:12:25

Yeah, and I would say that that was what led us more into the conversation of where we were going to birth, because we knew, as soon as we found out that I got pregnant with Katana, I was like, maybe we can try a home birth again. And you kind of shut that down pretty quickly. Not in a, like, immediate halt. We're not doing that. It was more of like, ah, I'm not super comfortable with that. Let's talk about what our options are. And we talked about the hospital and then we talked about the birth center. And the birth center seemed to meet both of our needs. I was not in the hospital and we were not at home.

Kumar: 1:12:58

Yeah, this is going back to what I was saying earlier about how it kind of, it's the bridge. It bridges the two. If you're, if you're not 100 percent set on a hospital birth and you're interested in a home birth but you're a little hesitant, the birth center could be the place for you.

Kiona: 1:13:19

So let's dive into like how that felt for you because I'm in labor, if you want to know the ins and outs of how I felt about labor, you can go check out episode three, but yeah, I'm in labor and we're at the birth center. So how does, You, you tell me what you remember.

Kumar: 1:13:39

Well, I remember it feeling very natural. When I saw the room, I was like, wow, this, this has a nice vibe to it. It seems peaceful. The lighting was nice. The people were nice. There is even a, which was really nice. There was even a room that had a bed and they told me that I could even nap while we were waiting and, uh, spending some time. I actually was able to take a nap and then I came back and was right next to you. It's such a tiring process, especially for a mother, you know, the person birthing. I can only imagine, and for the partner also, I mean, it's just so tiring when it happens in the middle of the night. And so I was thankful they had a little area to rest and they had an area for the kids to play on the carpet. So Kavina was, Kavina and Kairo, they had some toys there and they also got to lay down and take a nap. And there's plenty of space for some of your family to come in. You know, and you didn't, you probably didn't feel crowded. Is that right?

Kiona: 1:14:43

Mm hmm.

Kumar: 1:14:44

Yeah, because they could sit on the outer edges of the room. And what did you think? How did you feel when you compared the three? You've had a hospital birth, you've had a home birth, and you've had a birth center birth. Which one did you prefer, and why?

Kiona: 1:15:00

I mean honestly, my experience at the birth center I feel like was the quote end quote best experience. And I feel like my opinion would have changed again if the home birth went smoothly and we didn't have any issues postpartum. I probably would have been All home birth all the time because I really, really wanted to have that, redemption birth at home. Right? I really wanted to have that birth at home and just prove to myself and everybody else that was there and present that it's possible to do without it being an issue. You know? I, I really wanted that. But with all of that said, I think that it's important to realize that we were in three completely different places in our lives when we had our three beautiful children. So the decisions that we made around where we birthed, who was present with us, why we chose what we did, all had like a snowball effect from where we were in our lives. And um, I do want to touch a little bit more about how you felt at the birth center, like, what was it that made you feel so comfortable when you were there with Katana?

Kumar: 1:16:04

I mean, it starts with the people. And if you have a good team supporting you, you're gonna feel a lot better about wherever you are. So, the first thing's first. The people were great. And you met with them, and we met with them, and we kind of figured that out beforehand. But the icing on the top was just how nice the setting was once we got there, and, and it was go time. You know, of course, we toured the place, we met the people, but when it's the night of, and we blend the two, uh, just, it worked out, worked out really well.

Kiona: 1:16:41

Yeah. And how was your perspective of the birthing process, like, watching me with Katana? Because it was different. Um, for me on the inside, it felt really different. So how was it for you on the outside?

Kumar: 1:16:54

Yeah, I mean, like the other births, it was, it was unique, and I, I noticed this time you seemed to be in more pain.

Kiona: 1:17:03

It was just more intense. It was more intense for me, and so I was wondering if you could feel that shift in

Kumar: 1:17:10

Yeah, definitely. I could, um, I definitely could see that. And just being right next to you and seeing it on your face, I knew that this one showed to be more difficult, maybe, than the other ones.

Kiona: 1:17:24

Yeah. so, I'm happy to hear your perspective a little bit on the births, and I feel like we've been talking about a lot of details that are around them, and it makes me excited to hear them coming from you. And it also shows me that there's a lot of things that I hold onto as, like, the pregnant person and birther that you don't hang onto because you don't experience them and you don't remember them, and so I remember a lot of the little details of our experiences, and you remember, like, the general feel, which is, I think, is a good balance, because I remember a lot of the very, very intense things, and the scary things, and you remember them as well, but at a softer scale, and I feel like that's just interesting to me.

Kumar: 1:18:10

Yeah. And the cool part is if we never talked about it today, we probably wouldn't have realized this.

Kiona: 1:18:17

Yeah. But with that said, I do want to ask you what postpartum was like with Katana because you had so much more time off and we had two big kids that you were caring for. So how was that? Because with Kavina, you were only off from all of your activities for a week, postpartum. And with Kairo, you were off for two weeks. And so with Katana, you were at your amazing job, and so you were off for two months. How was that for you?

Kumar: 1:18:50

It was good. I definitely feel like if you can and you're able to, I took advantage of the PFMLA leave, the paid family medical leave in Washington state, and that covers you up to three months at, I believe it's like, um,

Kiona: 1:19:09

I think it's 80%?

Kumar: 1:19:11

yeah 80 or 87% of your wages or something like that, but we all pay into it in our taxes if you're, uh, working, and so, look into that, because that granted me up to three months off with that pay, and, that was great, being at home with you and being with our kids, walking them to the bus stop. And just being around was great. And I feel like a partner needs that in those first few months. And I feel like three months isn't enough, but I mean, that's probably as good as it gets with, um, you know, the state assistance like that. So,

Kiona: 1:19:53

And even though you were off for three months, you only took two.

Kumar: 1:19:56

yeah, that's right.

Kiona: 1:19:58

But it was great to have the option to do more, if needed. And one thing that we didn't take advantage of, but that is also really cool, is with the the Paid Family Medical Leave Act in Washington state, you don't have to take all three months at one time. Like, you can break it up within the first year of baby's life. So, say you want to take a month after they're born, and then a month later on in the year, and then a month later on, or weeks here and there, you could do that. Um, but back to you, how was it for you to actually take on more of the duties with the big kids? Because you didn't do that as much prior because you were working, and I was doing it, and we were like more on a team, but like, the first couple of weeks in particular, you were pretty solo with that, so how did that feel for you?

Kumar: 1:20:45

It felt natural. I mean, Of course it's overwhelming. Whenever you have a set schedule, a time you wake up, a place to be, a time that you eat, things like that, it's completely shifted when you're at home. You know, and so it was, it was interesting for me. I think I did okay, but I had to start paying attention to when the kids go catch their school bus, when they get off their school bus. Packing a lunch for them. All these things that are, it's completely a whole new world to me. Because I'm usually out of the house by 5. And I'm working and I'm getting home at 4pm. And so, in that time frame, a lot of things happen at home. Shout out to my amazing wife for holding it down. But a lot of things happen at home that I, I don't see because I'm walking around the hospital and working and thinking about things to order, and quotes to send out and all kinds of stuff. So my world on the weekdays is in the office at work, and. Taking away the office and work for me and having me make the work at home, it's extremely hard. And that, you know, shoutout to all the partners that are at home and taking care of the family and holding it down. Those, you know, all the things that magically happen when we walk in after work, that's something made it that way. Or someone made it that way, you know, and, and thank them because it's not easy. And I see my wife over here doing a little mini smile, she's trying not to smile. So thank you.

Kiona: 1:22:36

You're welcome. But even back then at that time, I was working as well, so it was more of a team effort, when I was working, but it was different'cause I was working from home and it was a whole different ball game. But now I am a stay-at-home parent. And I appreciate the words that you're saying because it is work. Lots of work that you're not paid for in financial means anyways, with that said, let's go ahead and round off this interview with me asking you the final questions that I want to ask. My first question that I have to ask for you is. What is one piece of advice that you will give to all partners of pregnant people to prepare for labor and birth?

Kumar: 1:23:12

I would say to not be so hard on each other. Because you're going to get an elevated state from both partners. Mainly the partner that's holding the child, but there's still a, for every action, there's a reaction. And what I mean by that is, when your partner is upset over something, yes, it may not be right the way they talk to you in that moment, but you got to remember that you're not just doing it for them, you're doing it for The child involved. And you want both of you to be as stress free as possible. and, sometimes just gotta, You just gotta go out there and get that Taco Bell at midnight. Sometimes, And don't forget the cinnamon sticks. I mean, sometimes you just gotta do what you gotta do. And you gotta realize that this isn't forever. This is just, This is for now. This is how things are. And you just have to accept it. And work with it. However you can.

Kiona: 1:24:14

Yeah, I think that's some good advice. My next question is, if you could describe the birth of each of our kids with one word, what would it be?

Kumar: 1:24:26

The birth, So So let's start with Kavina, exciting. Kairio, Surprising And Katana supported?

Kiona: 1:24:44

Hmm. I like those words. I think they're good. Exciting for Kavina because it was our first time around. Surprising for Kairo because of how things turned out at the end. And supported for Katana because we had great people around us when it all went down. So, babe, thank you so much for being on the podcast today. It took a lot of effort to actually make this happen for us today. I'm super excited for the listeners to hear your perspective, and I'm sure that our kids are knocking on our doors right now, because we just had to make this work by being in two separate rooms in our same house. So I'm hearing little doorknob wiggles on my door, so I don't know about you. Um, with that said, thank you babe, I love you, and I appreciate all that you do for our family, and I'm excited to see where all the things that our family of five do in our life. Cause we're done having kiddos, and we're just gonna support and love on the ones that we have.

Kumar: 1:25:50

Yeah, I couldn't agree with you more. I mean, I'm happy to be on here today and share this Sunday with you. It's New Year's Eve. Uh, we got a lot of family plans tonight. And, I couldn't imagine entering the new year any different.

Kiona: 1:26:06

Agreed.

Kumar: 1:26:07

Alright, I love you too, and I will, uh, see you in about two minutes.

Kiona: 1:26:12

Alright.

Kumar: 1:26:12

Okay.

Kiona: 1:26:13

Love you too. Recording this episode with my husband, Kumar was actually a lot of fun. There was quite a lot of editing that I had to do to pull out some of his dad jokes. Cause they made no sense, but. I feel like it made the interview flow really well. And we had some good giggles throughout the entire interview. It was super awesome to hear his perspective on our babies births, because I was so intrigued by some of the things that he remembered and I did have to plant some seeds along the way from the things that I remembered to jog his memory. But I heard some things from him that I had never heard before. And that was very interesting to me and it really opened my eyes to his perspective and what the perspective of some other partners may be as well. With that said, I am super happy to be ringing in this new year with my husband's episode, because I have been waiting so long to sit down with him and I'm happy that we finally had the chance. And to my husband Kumar, I want to give you a special thank you to actually participating in this podcast because I know being on the mic is a little bit out of your comfort zone. So I appreciate all of your effort that you put forward with this. And I appreciate all of the support that you give me. Even if it's really hard at times for us to make time for me to do editing and all that stuff. So. I appreciate you supporting me in my passion, regardless of how that looks. And I love you. I look forward to where our lives take us from here. As for you listeners. I hope that you listen to this episode with the intention of sharing it with a friend. You can share the direct link to this episode from any podcast platform, you can also share the direct link to this episode on my website at kionanessenbaum.com And you can also simply just listen to the podcast while riding in the car with friends or family and let them know how you feel about it and why you listen. And if you haven't already follow me on Instagram@birthasweknowitpodcast As for next week's episode, the person that will be sharing their story is a surprise Because I took some time away from interviewing folks for the holidays. So I could spend some much needed time focusing on my family, but I do have a busy weekend of interviews ahead. So stay tuned and I'll talk to you soon. All right, bye for now.