46-Kelly Hof- Registered Nurse-Life & Mindset Coach-The Birth Journeys Podcast

In this episode, I interview registered labor and delivery nurse Kelly Hof. Kelly has over 10 years of experience in this field and speaks on the programs she has created to close the gap between the care that is taking place, and the care that is needed in the hospital setting when people give birth. We also talk largely about the differences in how providers who work in the hospital setting vs. out of the hospital setting practice. 

Disclaimer: This podcast is intended for educational purposes only with no intention of giving or replacing any medical advice. I, Kiona Nessenbaum, am not a licensed medical professional. All advice that is given on the podcast is from the personal experience of the storytellers. All medical or health-related questions should be directed to your licensed provider. 

Resources:

• Kelly Hof: https://www.kellyhof.com/ 
  1. Empowered Birth Program: https://kellyhof.com/empowered 
  2. You’re pregnant… now what: https://kellyhof.com/freebie  
• Perinatal Support of Washington: https://perinatalsupport.org/ 
• Postpartum Support International: https://www.postpartum.net\

Definitions:

• Shoulder Dystocia 
• What is a Doula?
• Secondary Trauma & Stress
• Choosing the right birth location for you 

Transcript

Kiona: 0:07

Hello, and welcome to Birth As We Know It. I am your podcast host, Kiona Nessenbaum. I have experienced birth as a doula, a student midwife, and as a mother of three amazing children with my husband and high school sweetheart by my side. After attending over 130 births, including my own, I've realized that each birth experience is truly unique. So make sure you subscribe and join me every week as we are guided through many different birth experiences through the lens of the storyteller. Please be aware that some of the stories can be triggering to hear, so feel free to pause, take a breath, and come back and listen whenever you're ready. With that said, let's prep ourselves to dive deep and get detailed about what really happens in the birth space. As a reminder, this podcast is intended for educational purposes only, and has no intention of giving or replacing any medical advice. All advice that is given on the podcast is from the personal experiences of the storytellers. All medical or health related questions should be directed to your licensed provider. Before we dive into this episode today, I want to remind you to please listen to this episode with the intention of sharing it with a friend or family member. There are many people out there that are experiencing pregnancy as well as many of those people experiencing it for the very first time. And if they were to listen to an episode or podcasts like this, it can really boost their confidence in the decisions that they're making throughout their pregnancy and birth. All right.. Let's dive into the episode. Hello everybody and welcome back to the Birth As We Know It podcast. Today I am excited to have on a special guest, her name is Kelly Hoff, who is an RN BSN certified EFM, which is external fetal monitor, as well as a certified life and mindset coach. So she has been practicing as a labor and delivery nurse for over 10 years, and I'm excited to have her on to get her perspective from a birth professional. So welcome Kelly.

Kelly: 2:12

Hi, I'm so excited to be here.

Kiona: 2:15

Yeah, I'm super stoked because, you are also the host of a podcast and the podcast is called The Birth Journeys. So, The Birth Journeys, make sure you put the"the" in there, The Birth Journeys podcast and your podcast is also all about birth.

Kelly: 2:30

Yeah, Definitely.

Kiona: 2:33

so go ahead and tell us a little bit about you, what you do, and a little bit about your podcast.

Kelly: 2:39

Yeah. So I am a birth coach as well, but I focus on hospital births because that's where like, my wheelhouse is. And I found in the past 10 years, I've noticed how much trauma comes up from being in the hospital setting in birth and not having emotionally prepared for all of the things that could happen. Not only if you're having a medicalized birth, like if you have a condition that requires you to be in the hospital, but also if you come in completely low risk, I think that people think that there's no emotional preparation required, but getting an IV, getting an epidural, potentially ending up with a c section, all of those things, and there's so much more that's not exhaustive, but there's a, there's so many things that come up for people and they don't realize it's going to come up for them until they're in that space, and then they're like, Oh my gosh, what happened to me? I just came in to have a baby. Everybody's been having babies since the beginning of time. Why am I so traumatized? So that's where the whole thing has come about, and about four years ago, I started thinking like, What can I do to help these people? Should I make a website? have no idea what to do. And how do I even start? And I have a friend that invited me on her podcast, and I was like, Oh, that's what I need to do. It's perfect because you can do it in story form! So I've been interviewing moms about their experience and what was good, what was bad, what they wish they had done better, what they wish they had prepared for, and my favorite question, what would you go back and tell yourself if you could to just change the way that this process occurred or to help you through it emotionally? and so in the past year, cause it's been about a year since I've had this podcast, I have gotten so much good information from, All these moms, a lot of them have been labor nurses that I work with because

Kiona: 4:34

Heh

Kelly: 4:35

they're really vibing on my podcast now. But they have such good perspective. and so in all of that, I thought to myself, okay, now I have to figure out how to one on one help some of these moms because they're still coming. They're, you know, not everybody in the world is listening to my podcast and not everybody in the world hears the message of you need to be emotionally prepared and gets everything they need from the podcast. So then, I decided to get certified as a Mindset and Life Coach. Or Life and Mindset Coach, however you want to say it. So that I could work on the emotional aspect. And what I love about the program I did is that it is trauma informed. And it is neuroscience backed. Which, if you're someone like me that loves to just nerd out on neuroscience. That, that was my jam and so I felt like I became very prepared to work through a lot of what was coming up for moms and help guide them through personally what might be coming up for them when they get to the, to the hospital birthing space. So I focus on like the top three birthing must haves rather than a birth plan because a birth plan is not a guarantee. And so we focus on trying to figure out how we can incorporate those three must haves so that the mom feels like no matter what happens those things happen and things went well. And then we talk about the things that are coming up for them that might be fear based or might be obstacles to the most empowered birth possible. And we work through those things. And then we do like a birth vision board and like some audio, Gosh, what's the word? Audio When you like listen, like mantras or whatever,

Kiona: 6:19

Oh, affirmations?

Kelly: 6:20

Yeah, or visualization. We kind of put the story together of how ideally the birth would go and when you start to spin out And I'm not necessarily there or available to talk you through it. You have that audio. It's like okay This is how my ideal birth will go, but we remember it may not go that way, but that is the calm Even if it starts to get out of sync, you know, we just go back to wherever we left off, wherever it started to, you know, veer to, to the left and pick up from there and say, okay, well, this happened, this happened, this happened, but you know what? We can still do this, this, this, and this, and we can still listen to this and get back into that vibe that we want to be in in the birth space and have that emotional control. So yeah, that's where I'm at.

Kiona: 7:02

I love it all. I love it all. And the reason why I also love it so much is because you are literally like in the front lines of it all. Like as a labor and delivery nurse, like you see it all the time. And specifically with you being in the hospital and mentioning yourself that that is where a lot of the trauma comes and or happens. And then to see it kind of flip with some of the things that you're offering. I think that's great. Because the fact that you're on the inside, being able to navigate based off of seeing the inside before this new person comes into that space. It allows them to prep mentally. Because I am 100 percent the person that says birth is just as psychological as it is physical. And a lot of people focus so much on the physical aspect of birth. And then. That's where a lot of the fear comes in though as well because they're like how is this baby gonna come out of me? You know like this tiny hole or am I gonna be able to stand all of these contractions What is support gonna look like I've never done this before So how do I prep for this? So I really really love that you do that and I love that you have the podcast and I am all for all the birth related podcasts, all the birth story podcasts, all the birth guiding podcasts. Even though I'm creating this podcast for birth stories and to get information out there, the more podcasts that are out there, the better. This is not a competitive space for me. This is an informative space. And I'm like, come on my podcast, like, tell me all about yours. Like let's get more people

Kelly: 8:33

Yes. let's collab. Yeah.

Kiona: 8:35

Yeah, absolutely. So let's go ahead and talk about where you practice.

Kelly: 8:41

Yeah. So I work at two hospitals currently. they're both city hospitals, so I'm in the D. C. area. So, D. C., Maryland, Virginia are the clients that I physically serve. So when I'm in the hospital, that's where my, patients come from. both are busy. one is a level 3 NICU, one is a level 2 NICU. and I work at the one with the level 2 NICU in, All areas, of women's health. So, I say labor and delivery nurse because that's what most people understand. But I'm actually labor and delivery, postpartum, nursery, special care nursery, and maternal fetal medicine. I'll float through all of those. And then at the other hospital that I work at, I'm just labor and delivery, but I technically could float to, postpartum. I've just never trained in their NICU or in their maternal fetal medicine. So the opportunity comes up, I'll definitely do it, but I'm qualified to work in all those areas. So I feel like being able to see all of those areas is what really gave me the perspective of being able to say with confidence that yes, if moms come to me before we go into the labor and delivery space, We will have such a better emotional outcome than if we just go take a random birth class where they're just going to spit fire information at you and you're going to end up with a laundry list of all the things that could happen and the things that you think that you can check off the menu but no real understanding of how that's going to affect you or What you actually would choose in the moment when somebody's saying, in order to preserve your health and the baby's health, I'm recommending this. and I feel like that's what's missing in the hospital birth space. In an uncomplicated, straightforward, everything's going well delivery at a birth center or at home, that's a completely different situation. You're in your element. Not having to have all of these interventions, like even fetal monitoring and all of the policies for liability and you're not sharing the space with other, with many other patients on the unit that are going to potentially, require more intervention or more help than you and then perhaps maybe take the attention that you would have if you were in a birth center or a home birth. So. I don't think a lot of people realize that they're not going to have the one on one attention that they get at home or in a birth center, but they get the advantage of all of, well, the operating room, because neither the birth center nor home will have the operating room. all of the teams that you can get at a push of a button. Emergency response teams or the NICU, whatever level you end up being at. So it's a balance and Yeah, I just don't, I don't think people are completely aware of what their options are, what they're choosing and how important it is to know.

Kiona: 11:49

Mm hmm. Mm hmm.

Kelly: 11:51

I think I got off track there.

Kiona: 11:53

No, it's okay, it's okay. I I 100 percent agree with what you're saying because a couple of things come up for me when you were just talking. and one is, I personally feel as a birth worker that is primarily outside of the hospital, I have supported people as a doula inside the hospital many a times, but outside of the hospital with having that experience of both in and out of hospital supporting with clients or even as a student midwife, as a student midwife, I was, studying as a certified professional midwife. So that's an out of hospital midwife. I feel that in the hospital, they play with fire a little bit more because they know that those things are right down the way, at the push of a button, right? And in an out of hospital setting, we don't play with fire. You know what I mean? we, oh, how do I say this?

Kelly: 12:50

Everything has to stay normal. You specialize in normal.

Kiona: 12:53

yeah, we, and I wouldn't even use the word normal because normal is different for so many people. Like what is normal? I would say back to what the vocabulary that you used earlier by saying we specialize in low risk physiological birth, right? We don't study cesareans. of course there are some clients that transfer and may end up in a cesarean, but the way they get there is different every single time, if they end up getting there. So, with us focusing on the low risk physiological aspects of birth, we're not trained in treating pregnancy as an illness. We're trained in it being okay and low risk until something else points us in the opposite direction. You know what I mean? And I feel like I was just listening to one of your previous episodes on your podcast and I don't remember who, your guest was, but you all were talking about how, The training that you receive as an OB doctor is way different than even a certified nurse midwife and way different than an out of hospital midwife. So the outlook that you have on pregnancy, labor, and birth is so different because your training is different and you're like, I know how to handle this by doing X, Y, and Z. And then, you know, out of hospital birth is just so different. I don't know, I'm going on a tangent now, but

Kelly: 14:13

No, and I totally understand where you're, you're coming from because When we're thinking XYZ, you guys have enough people to, jump in there and help with pain control and progression of labor without medication and all of the things that are natural. But we do things like slap monitors on people, give them an IV, hook them up to a pulse ox. I mean, we're, we're hooking them up to more and more things, I swear, every year. And I'm like, why are we doing this? and so then it just makes it more difficult for the birthing person, the doula, the support person, the nurse, who's bouncing from room to room, to help that person work through a physiologically low risk straightforward labor. So then if we get into a situation where either the baby's malpositioned and we have more pain than expected or we start to experience transition and the birthing person no longer feels confident that they can do this, What we jump to is medication, typically an epidural. sometimes, at one of the hospitals, we've in the past had nitrous and we're supposed to be getting it back. But that comes with the caveat that you have to be able to hold the nitrous to your face and also understand that it's really only good during transition to get you through. So it's just, we just, we have these little checklists of what we can offer and what sucks about being a nurse is While I would love to be in there with someone offering the things that you offer at a home birth or at a birth center, or just even as a hospital doula, I would love to be in there more to be able to offer those things. I also have another patient, probably. I also am most likely supporting other nurses on the floor. And As a team, we watch the entire unit on that TV that has all of the heart rate tracings on it. And so if I see something is going awry in another room, typically I will be heading towards that room.

Kiona: 16:23

Mm hmm.

Kelly: 16:23

Not necessarily helping you through your transition, if you're, if you're my patient. So it's just, it's a, it's, it's, it's got benefits, but it's got drawbacks. And I really want to focus on In the hospital, just asking ourselves the question, like, how are we going to switch our mindset to, when we do have a low risk person, do we really have to do all these things, and maybe we can slow down and think a little bit, maybe we can talk a little bit about what's going on, instead of, this, we have this mindset, of, let's jump in and get things done, and that can be okay if the birthing person is down with that.

Kiona: 17:15

hmm.

Kelly: 17:16

But if this is someone that just wanted the security of birthing in a hospital, naturally, and they're naturally going through labor, they went into labor on their own, and they, You know, maybe came in at four or five centimeters, first birth. Do we really have to break their water? Do we really have to give them Pitocin? Can we please just give them the normal amount of time to labor, which is like 16 to 18 hours, is typically average for a first time mom that went into active labor. But what I find is that people get antsy and they want You know, they've got people that are ready to come in for their induction, and they need a room, and all of that. which I get, because we've got the bean counters telling us that we need to make a certain amount of money.

Kiona: 18:03

Mm hmm.

Kelly: 18:04

But, we also have the goal of providing personalized, individualized care to benefit the person that walks through the door of the hospital. Not necessarily to get people through in the most efficient manner. So, the way that hospitals work, and the way that natural birth works, Do not really go together very well, and I really hope that by having these conversations we can start to ask ourselves how we can fix that and if that means going to a model where maybe we don't have the low risk patients that come in to birth normally, quote unquote, go to the hospital. Maybe they go to a birth center that is affiliated with the hospital, or maybe they try a home birth, but we are, we have such a great relationship with the, CPMs in the community, and they have such autonomy that they can practice safely. Then we can all work together. And that would be my ideal. So when you were saying that, now I can't remember, was it Jennifer James?

Kiona: 19:06

Oh, Jenny Joseph.

Kelly: 19:07

Jenny Joseph. I'm just going to use all the names that I can think of that start with J. Jenny Joseph. Like, I love what she's doing and that she can do that, because that's what it should look like. That's what we should be doing. We should be giving the options for people to do all of the things safely the way that they want them without having to choose. Like, I don't, maybe I want a home birth, but I'm not sure if I want to. Birth in a space where there's not a NICU available. And that's, I mean, that's kind of where I was at. I wanted a natural birth. I was doing better at home, but I also wanted the NICU just in case. Cause I'm a nurse. I grew up in a medical family. Everybody told me I needed NICU. So, and I've worked in hospitals for many, many years and I've seen the worst case scenario and I don't want that at a home birth.

Kiona: 19:55

And that's, that's the, the balance, the psychological balance of being a birth worker and seeing it all. Because you know so much more than the average Jane or Joe that's out there on the street that's carrying a child, you know? So You think of the worst off, like I've heard people say that, Oh yeah, like in one of my episodes with Ashley winning, she was talking about how her sister was a labor and delivery nurse and she was like, heck no, I'm not going to try for a vaginal birth. This is crazy. Like, I'm just going to schedule cesarean because I know what that looks like. And so that was like, it would have been easier for her because she's like, okay, okay. I know that in a cesarean, X, Y, and Z happens because she has supported as a nurse on the sidelines of many cesareans. but, besides that, I love what you're saying with the collaborative nature of midwifery and the community providers with the hospital because it makes me just think of all of the other places around the world where Midwifery is the primary provider for low risk pregnancies, right? And I am 100 percent an advocate of saying your birthplace, wherever you feel safest is where you should be, right? If you feel safest in the hospital, go do that. I am not against hospitals. Hospitals save lives every single day. With that said, there are also lives that get lost in the hospitals because of decisions that are made. But, to counteract that, there are lives that are lost in home and birth center births, and there are also many, many lives that are created and loved and all the things. So, regardless of what setting you choose, you have to make sure that you are supported by the correct people to make it to where you are having informed decisions to Make the right decision for you, but giving you the agency to make those decisions rather than making it for you. And then that leads me back to how you were talking about the three main must haves of your birth. It makes me think of even just simply changing the vocabulary when you talk to people. And I'm saying this like to the audience, like when you talk to people about their births, don't call it a birth plan. Because birth never goes as planned.

Kelly: 22:19

no such thing as a birth plan.

Kiona: 22:21

Yeah, it's like birth never goes as planned. And so as a provider, like a birth worker, as a doula, as a student midwife, when I was doing midwifery school, I was always calling it birth preferences because it is exactly that is it is a preference. And we do not know what birth is going to look like. We cannot promise anything of how your birth will look like, but we can promise our efforts. We can promise that we will try our best to get you the desired birth that you want, but that open communication is what makes it possible to do that, you know, and I will say 99 percent of birth plans, air quotes here, do not go as planned, but, but with that said, it does not mean that your birth is automatically traumatic, right? So, it's about having open conversations and communication. I do want to touch on a little bit how you were talking about how as a labor and delivery nurse, you will be supporting more than just one patient at a time. And that made me think of what someone in a previous episode had also brought up. Ashley winning yet again, She goes in to talk about how. The hospital system and the health care system is a machine with multiple cogs, right? And it's like a factory and you are the product of that factory as a patient. And so when the cogs or anything in the conveyor belt of that factory gets slowed down. Other things slow down after that. So if they decide that. Okay, you as an individual need this individual thing, so I'm going to care extra for you so you can accomplish this. You're then taking away from the other pieces of that conveyor belt and the cogs of the machine, like it slows it down. So, I would say that that's the biggest difference of hospital births and out of hospital births, is the kind of care that you receive during labor. out of hospital births make it to where you can have that individualized care to the point to where your providers and team can slow down a bit because you're that primary focus. But, the biggest, absolute biggest difference between out of hospital providers and in hospital providers is out of hospital providers do not have as heavy of a client load, right? Because the first thing, what's the first thing people do when they get pregnant, especially as a person that's not really aware of their options, they're like, oh, okay, what hospital do I need to contact? What hospital does my insurance cover, you know? So informing people of their options is extremely important. and that can, that's a whole, a whole thing.

Kelly: 25:06

Well, and the thing is, also, If you are informed enough to know that you can utilize a birth center or you may qualify for a home birth, then you also probably know how much preparation you're gonna need for those, those areas, I feel like, and I've never been to a home birth or a birth center birth, but what my colleagues that do work there, have said is. They require a lot of prep work, and also you will get a lot of attention during your pregnancy that you wouldn't necessarily get when you have a hospital provider. Because probably if you're at the hospital, you're going to be, utilizing insurance to, or Medicaid or whatever, community program to, fund your delivery and That means that you don't really get long appointments. You'll get like 15 minute appointments with your OB provider, maybe longer if you're high risk with the maternal fetal medicine side, but That is not going to be focused on preparing you, the birthing person, for delivery. It's going to be making sure that everything looks good with your baby and that you aren't in any way having complications, either related to the pregnancy or if you have pre existing conditions that are being exacerbated by the pregnancy. That's it. They probably will ask you, they'll have you fill out the Edinburgh Perinatal Mental Health, I can't remember what the actual name is, but it's just a list of ten questions that make sure that you're not, like, in a depressive crisis. It's

Kiona: 26:47

EPDS,

Kelly: 26:48

yeah, that one,

Kiona: 26:49

depression screening, yeah.

Kelly: 26:51

that one, and it's not even, it's not even, it doesn't even encompass like, any other mental health, like any of the perinatal mental health conditions other than depression, so it's very focused on that, and that is about all you're going to get unless your provider has a deeper conversation with you, so you're just gonna, like, you're just gonna get run through the machine, literally, if you decide to have a hospital birth. And if you want to not get run through the machine, you have to seek out the prep work to do. You need to find what you align with. You need to be very cognizant that you align with your provider for your birth, and that you are aligning with the hospital policies and the way that they tend to do things. Because all of that varies. And so you really have to do a lot of homework. Whereas, And if you don't, like I said, things happen. Things just go the way that they go, the way that they happen in that particular hospital. And you don't necessarily have a choice. I mean, you do to some extent. You can say, I don't like this, but again, you're still a cog in the machine. And so if you say, I don't like this, and they're like, well, but sorry, we can't provide that service for you right now because we have this other person that we have to keep alive. And so that's where, what it comes down to, it's in the hospital, usually it's life or death. And if that person down the hall. that looks like it needs to go back to the OR to save its life. You're not going to get, the one to one care that you want. you may not have the nurse at the bedside helping you position. They may just say, okay, cool. Stay on the monitor and you may get some random person coming in. That's another nurse on the floor that you've never met repositioning you. you may have nurses that cycle through and you, you may have more than, One, two, three, four nurses on a shift because you never know. We have to shift assignments all the time to keep people safe. So it's a completely different scenario and most people I find are not prepared for that if they're birthing for the first time.

Kiona: 28:51

Yeah, and I agree with that, and I think that having that specific realization is why it's important to also have or hire a doula. I feel like doulas are very much a huge part of the birth team, and if you want that one on one care in or out of a hospital, because, out of hospital midwives also have other things to do. They have charting, they also have to rest. If your birth is really long your midwife might say, okay, I'm gonna go nap, and then I'll come back. There's pros and cons of each setting and each provider system. So I think doulas are super important. So as a labor and delivery nurse, how do you feel about birth doulas?

Kelly: 29:34

I love a doula that is prepared for a hospital birth. What gets under my skin are the doulas that come in trying to How should I put this? To use their patient to fight the hospital birth setting. Like, that's not the place. I don't love how we do everything in the hospital in the context that it isn't always patient centered or patient related, or individualized for that patient because we're having to also kind of balance our resources. I, I get that the individual. May not fully benefit from that model, but there's not a lot we can do about it. And also people keep people safe. So when I have doulas that come in, having an attitude that the way we do things in the hospital is bad because this is the way we do them at a birth center, or this is the way that we do them at home, and you have a patient that does not qualify for that setting. And we're trying to do everything we can to give them the birth that they want in the context of the hospital while keeping them safe. It doesn't help the patient at all to try to fight every policy of the hospital.

Kiona: 31:06

Mm

Kelly: 31:06

So, there are certain things that we do have like wiggle room on. And, for the most part, We are happy to adjust the way that we do things. whatever's in, and I'm speaking of as a nurse, whatever's in my scope of practice as a nurse, I will be the person that advocates for my patient. if it gets to the point where I can't keep my other patients safe, and do that at the same time, I'll be having a conversation with my charge nurse, I will still be advocating. But it starts to become something I can't necessarily control because then I have an ethical issue. Do I provide this service that this patient wants or do I provide this service that this patient needs? And so I have to choose sometimes. I will always try to find somebody that can provide the service that the patient wants in order to relieve me of the responsibility so that I can provide the service that the other patient needs. But it's difficult. And the doctors have, and the midwives in the hospital, and the charge nurse, and the anesthesiologist and everybody have to make all the same choices. So what gets complicated is when I have to make that choice, and then the other provider has to make that choice, and the other provider has to make that choice. And it doesn't always align. So, we don't always get what we want in the hospital. the other thing that comes up, and this is what I'm really trying to work to dismantle, is the trauma that every one of us has been through. And trying to, and I mean providers, so, or healthcare professionals. So, the nurses, the doctors, the anesthesiologists, the charge nurse. What I notice is, Most of the time, the trauma that the patient experiences, if it's not completely inevitable, it's because the provider is projecting their own past trauma onto the patient. So, I notice that providers get a little bit more stressed out or react more when they've just had, an event that did not go as hoped for or as planned or just went terribly wrong. and they will overcompensate to prevent that from happening again at the expense of sometimes the current patient's mental health. they will insist on things, interventions that that patient may not want at the time because They are afraid that that same thing will happen again, that same outcome that they thought that they could prevent before when they're being easy breezy relaxed and things didn't go as planned. Now they're trying to overcompensate and make sure that, and assuming that the reason that that happened in the past was because they had that easy breezy attitude. So, and we don't have very many, I mean, Historically, we haven't had a lot of services to help us work through that trauma. So I'm not faulting providers. I'm just saying that we all need to be aware. We're starting to get training on that. We're starting to get training on being trauma informed with patients, and they're scratching the surface on being trauma informed for ourselves. but a lot of us like, and nurses can't necessarily always afford mental health care and therapy and that kind of stuff. So, I'm seeing there's a definite, there's a shift now. Like, one of the hospitals that I work at, they offer, free mental health care for nurses. But sometimes it's hard to get in and that kind of stuff. So, it's just, it, it, it needs to get better. But I just want to acknowledge, because there's no real solution yet. Or, I mean, there is, it's just slow, slow coming. But, a lot of. What I think happens in the hospital is based on the provider's past trauma or the healthcare professional's past trauma. and I don't think we need to act that way. So I'm trying to be a lot more, I, I know that I have been swept away by those thoughts and feelings before in a situation like if a doctor comes in and says we need to do this because XYZ And I didn't know as much and I was like, oh, okay. This is an emergency. But now I'm able to stop and say no, let's slow down Is it really an emergency or are we trying to prevent a potential emergency? And maybe we can you know, be a little bit more calm about this or maybe we can try something different I'm really trying to Slow down personally, and facilitate that mindset with the people that I'm working with, because I feel like I have that knowledge now, and not everybody does. but it is such an uphill battle at this point. And so, back to what I was referring to before, it is very, very important to be prepared when you go to the hospital, to put in that work. I look at it as, parenthood is going to be your next career. You wouldn't go to a three hour class to train for your next career, more than likely.

Kiona: 36:14

Yeah.

Kelly: 36:15

I mean, even if you go and work at, like, a restaurant or a I'm trying to think of, like, some of the just entry level positions that you might get out of high school.

Kiona: 36:30

A barista

Kelly: 36:32

Right! Any of those They're gonna train you for several days, at least. Several eight hour shifts. Before you have to go out on your own, so why are we not treating parenthood the same way? And if you don't know how you're going to go into that birth space and prepare to then take care of a baby, I mean, we'll help you in the hospital, but we're not going to give you an all inclusive course on how to take care of yourself and the baby. It's going to be like, hi, I'm going to walk in and change this baby's diaper. Get over here and look because I'm going to do this once and then you're going to do the rest. You know, it's like I got five other patients whose diapers need to be changed right now. So let's get this done.

Kiona: 37:11

Right.

Kelly: 37:11

if you want to feel confident in the birth space and in the parent in the early parenthood space Because that's what I deal with. I'm not a Coach for parent. I need probably a parenting coach

Kiona: 37:23

Ha ha ha ha. Me too.

Kelly: 37:25

That's not my jam right now

Kiona: 37:27

Yeah.

Kelly: 37:29

but if you want to be confident in that space you're gonna need to surround yourself with resources and start with A birth class, a birth coach, somebody that you align with, a doula that's going to help you through the space, a midwife if you're going to do, you know, a hospital birth, that you want to have a natural, low risk, delivery, or if, a midwife, if you want to be in the community, like the birth center or at home, or a provider that you align with, you need to be very intentional about the people that you surround yourself. For From now on, essentially,

Kiona: 38:08

Right. For rest of your life.

Kelly: 38:09

parent, right, the rest of your life. It's very important. Like, the trial and error phase of your life is over.

Kiona: 38:14

Mm hmm.

Kelly: 38:15

Now we're going to be intentional. Like, let's do this right.

Kiona: 38:18

I will say that a lot of parenting is trial and error. Ha ha

Kelly: 38:21

true, that is true, but we're not gonna just be like, oh, okay, yeah, that person that looks super sketched down the street, like, yeah, let's be friends, like, you're gonna have to really think about who you're gonna surround yourself with now, like, you need a village that is there to support you. That doesn't include necessarily the people that are going to bring you down, or that are going to weigh you down, or that are going to take all your attention so that you can't put your attention where it belongs with yourself, your family, your kids, you know, all of the things that you need to survive. So, I want people, I want birthing people, the second that they find out that they're pregnant, to be that intentional about the rest of their parenthood experience, because it makes such a difference.

Kiona: 39:09

Yeah, I hear you on that. I definitely hear you. And I do want to touch on that aspect, but before I dive into that, I do want to go back to what you were talking about, about how the provider's past experiences impacts, like, the decisions that they make in their active patient setting. I also want to piggyback on that and say that happens in out of hospital birth as well.

Kelly: 39:34

Okay Fair.

Kiona: 39:35

Yes. And that it also happens with some of the doulas that you may be finding super under your skin annoying, you know? and I want to say that because I probably was one of those doulas at one point in time for a specific patient and, or client. and I say that because, usually when a client comes into the hospital setting, that is the nurse's first time or sometimes even the provider's first time, depending on who is on call or how their group practice works. It's their first time meeting that patient, right? And then the way that they're deciding what decisions to make for that individual client is by reading their birth preferences or birth quote unquote plan. And some people that are overworked. And exhausted and dealing with five other patients may look at their birth preferences and be like, I already know that's not happening. So I'm not even going to try, you know, and I'm not saying that that is you or everybody else, but I know that there are nurses that I have come into the space with that have done that. and as a birth doula, that has a very strong passion of supporting and birthers of color coming into a hospital setting, I am the advocate that's like, okay, can we pause? Let's take a pause. Let's take a break because my client here has sexual abuse traumas. My client here has racism experiences. Like let's do the best we can in this situation to make it to where my client feels seen and heard and valued. And I remember supporting. I'm going to do a really small story here, I'm going to try my best.

Kelly: 41:16

Did not involve the names and the specifics.

Kiona: 41:19

No, no HIPAA breaking here. We're following the rules. Um, there was a client that I was supporting that was a person of color and I had known her for like 13 years at this point, right? And, there was this one specific nurse at this hospital that they were birthing at that I was like, if you get this nurse, I know that you will not vibe well with her. So, if you get this nurse, automatically, ask to get a different nurse, because if you can get a different nurse and it's possible and they make it happen, cool. You know, sometimes that's not a possibility and you got to work through it and figure out how to work with your nurse. And then that's kind of when you're like, okay, guards up. We're all, we're going to work really hard on making it this environment smooth and safe and everybody feels seen and heard. Cause there was another client where she loved this nurse that I'm talking about, but for the specific client that I was working with, it was not a vibe. And so, this nurse happened to be their first nurse that came on shift and, Well, actually it was like their second nurse because the first nurse, you know, my client ended up getting an epidural and was resting and everything and then shift change happened and then this nurse that I was talking about that was not a good fit came in, automatically didn't even greet the patient or the client, turned on the lights, was like, Oh, okay, let's flip you over, blah, blah, blah, blah. And my client was resting and she was like so caught off guard and she was legitimately scared because the energy that this nurse brought in was very demanding, right? Very demanding and my client was, like, terrified of birth to begin with and for her to have someone come into her space that she had just settled into to come in and flip and, like, start demanding all of these things without even asking her her name

Kelly: 43:08

Mm hmm.

Kiona: 43:09

was completely traumatic for her. And so, her partner looked at me and I was like, this is the one and he was like, okay, this is the one. Yeah. Now I understand why this was the one. and so he went out and asked for a different nurse. He wanted to speak to the chargers, get a different nurse and they ended up getting a different nurse. And as he's out there talking, my client is crying because she's scared and worried and concerned. And she's like, what if she comes back in and she confronts me because I wanted to change nurses and I was like, she's a grown woman. She's not going to do that. You know, she's not going to do that. Guess what this nurse did.

Kelly: 43:44

What did she do?

Kiona: 43:45

She came back in and she said, I can't believe that you didn't like, you don't even know me. I would have given you all of the best care. I would have served you as blah, blah, blah. And I was like, dude, just take it as you're not the best nurse for this person and move on. Like you literally were in the room for less than 15 minutes. It's probably even less than 10 and you put this vibe that my client didn't appreciate. And then you came back and confronted this client who is so vulnerable and we're putting whatever projections you were dealing with that day onto her completely, completely absurd. So of course I was at that, that doula, that was like trying my best to support this client. And I was like, dude, I'm sorry. can we please like not do this right now? my client is

Kelly: 44:33

why would she be allowed in the back?

Kiona: 44:35

back in the room, right? But the thing is, is she was actually being held back by the charge nurse. So it was like a threatening energy, right? So whatever this nurse was going on, had going on in her life, she definitely brought into the birth space. And so, yeah, that was

Kelly: 44:52

I mean I got fired by a patient two days ago and I was, I was just like, cool, see ya.

Kiona: 44:59

Yeah, and then, I

Kelly: 45:00

Like, I don't know what it was about. It was like, literally, it was seven o'clock, 735, she asked for the charge nurse. I was like, I don't know what I did, but I'm out of here.

Kiona: 45:08

hmm, and I mean, that should also say, like, you also wouldn't want to spend your entire shift with that person anyway, right?

Kelly: 45:15

No, no, like I could tell like something about me offended her and I could tell because she was like her body language. She was on her phone. She wasn't looking at me. I was like, I don't know what I did. I actually, I, she claimed I didn't say my name. She didn't hear me say my name, which whatever. I mean, I don't think it was about that. It was probably like, I don't know if I look like someone that had threatened her once or maybe she hates my podcast. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I have no clue, but that's not about me. I don't even make it about me. I was like at 735, like literally, like if it's that early on, we don't vibe well, cool. I don't need to be in your birth space because this is super vulnerable for you and I don't want to be in here. Like I don't want to cause anybody stress in their labor. I don't want to be the reason that they feel stressed out. So if for whatever reason I walk into your space and my energy is not what You're going to be able to work with. I'm out. I don't have a problem with that. and most of the time, I mean, I don't feel like there's a punitive, at least the hospitals that I work at. I don't think there's like a punitive environment where like, look, I just, I'd feel more comfortable with another provider if that's possible. If it's not possible, I'm going to do my very best to come in and say, listen, I don't know what I did to offend you. and honestly, it doesn't, it doesn't really, I mean, unless it's something I can. Super change about myself, it doesn't matter, but how can we move forward? Like, how can I be better? I don't need specifics on what I did necessarily, if that's uncomfortable for you, but how can What, what can I give you that would make it better? Or what can I do that would make it better?

Kiona: 46:54

And that's opening space to have that conversation and give that patient slash client the agency of making a decision and voicing their needs, you know

Kelly: 47:04

And usually, even if I don't vibe with someone right off the bat, I tend to come in, do my thing, try not to even, I try to be kind of like ghost like when I'm coming in

Kiona: 47:18

Mm hmm.

Kelly: 47:18

because really none of it's about me. I'm in there trying to help this patient along and I start to just like look at the body language, look at the vibe, try to figure out what's working, what's not, like quietly just observing, oh, this patient. Relaxed when I said it this way, or this patient seems to be more comfortable in this position, or they seem to be happier with the lights off. And then I'll start asking questions about do you prefer the lights off or on or whatever. I find that if you jump in like that and say, do you want lights on or off? Do you want the cover up or down? Like all that, that's overwhelming. So I try to just kind of read the room instead of jumping into their space. And then usually, even if there's like a bad vibe at the beginning, most of the time we end up okay. So, most of the time I can turn it around, but in that moment, if she was just not vibing that, or she was not feeling that I could turn it around, or she just didn't even, like, whatever it was, I don't care. I don't need to try. It's fine. There are plenty of, I had a, I got a new patient. We had a beautiful birth. Everything was great. You know?

Kiona: 48:20

Mm hmm.

Kelly: 48:21

So, yeah, I mean, you don't have to, you don't have to be a good fit for everybody. Like, I'm not going to get married to everybody that I meet, so why

Kiona: 48:30

God, that'd be horrible.

Kelly: 48:31

I know, right? So why do I have to be your labor and delivery nurse? That, that shouldn't have to be the way of it. That is like the, one of the biggest days of your life. And if I'm not a good fit for you, I don't need to be there.

Kiona: 48:46

Yeah.

Kelly: 48:46

Same with doctors, like. But that's why you choose your doctor that you align with. That's why you need to make sure or midwife or doula, you need to make sure that whoever's in your space, you completely align with. And that's why you start preparing at the beginning. You need to make sure because that is, I mean, it is probably the most vulnerable you're ever going to be. And who is there with you and how you prepare is so important. So, so important.

Kiona: 49:17

Yeah. And so, with everything that we just discussed, I think it's important for everybody that's listening, whether you're a provider, a support person, a partner, to remember that, one, Everybody's human. Everybody has their own emotions and their own life experiences that they're coming into this space with. And doctors are not superheroes, right? They're also human balancing all the things. and then two the people around you and the people that you choose truly matter and leading me to three. I think doulas are worth it.

Kelly: 49:54

I do too.

Kiona: 49:55

Doulas are worth it. You know, there are definitely a lot of different pay ranges with doulas, but there are birth doulas, there are postpartum doulas, there are like, abortion doulas, there are end of life doulas, there are so many doulas, there are so many people that can support you through this, but since this podcast is primarily around birth, There are also doulas that are there for loss, you know, like miscarriages and stillbirths. And so, utilize the resources that you can find. If you don't know of it, ask a friend that has potentially been through it. And create that village like we were talking about before. Find a way to create that village and know that leaning on someone is okay. You're not asking them to do it all, but leaning on someone and trusting someone after you develop a relationship with them is okay. I feel like here in the States, or just in this day and age pretty much, it's all about the independence. Doing it on your own. I can do it by myself. Like, as soon as I'm 18 years old, I'm going to move out of the house and get my own place. Yada yada. Now everybody is scraping the walls and like, you know, about to tear their skin off trying to get this community and get this village that people have been so willingly giving up. So, just really focusing on finding that village and talking to people in the space. And like, for example, if any of the listeners listen to my podcast or your podcast, and it doesn't vibe with them, I guarantee there's another resource out there that they'll benefit from. So, yeah. Oh, gosh. Okay. so I do want to ask you, you are in this birth space and have been for so long. What inspired you to get into this space in the first place?

Kelly: 51:40

That was such a funny question for me because, I mean, it wasn't necessarily that I was inspired. It was like, Kind of the way I live my life, essentially, or try to live my life. It always doesn't always work out. But

Kiona: 51:55

Hmm.

Kelly: 51:56

If I just really dig deep and search like my gut for what the next step for me that looks correct will be like, what comes to me is from frozen to the next right step. But I know people get really annoyed when I say that, but it's so true. That's how I've gotten here. I started off in high school knowing that I was going to move to the Dominican Republic and live there for two years. I just knew that. Because I'd been going there with my church for about four years and we'd been working in like the sugar cane villages and building a hospital and all this stuff and then I was like, I'm gonna go work at this hospital that I helped build. And so I just bought a plane ticket and I did it. And I went there without a place to live, like, without a plan. I just knew that I was going to go to this church. I told them I was coming. Other than that, I was like, I'm going to get there and we're going to figure it out. And when I was there, my church requested that I help them with their family planning program. And I helped write the family planning program for the people in the Sugarcane Villages. and helped get the women signed up for the sterilization surgeries if they've already had the number of kids that they wanted, Helped with the teams that came down to do that and when I left, I realized I was gonna, I was planning on being a teacher. I taught English there while I was there too, but I realized I didn't want to teach. I realized if I was gonna teach, I wanted to do it like in the hospital space. I didn't want to like do lesson plans and stuff. I was like on the fly. I just kind of wanted to, you know, do it that way. and so, The quickest way out of college was to just finish up with my degree in Spanish. So that's what I did. And I started taking the prerequisites for nursing school and medical school, just to kind of figure out where I needed to go. Um, weird, weird turn of events. Got waitlisted to nursing school, ended up in medical school. Had all sorts of, like, health problems while I was there, had to drop out, went and applied for nursing school again, got in, and ended up being a nurse.

Kiona: 54:03

Mm.

Kelly: 54:04

All the while, I was a Spanish interpreter at a children's hospital and at a hospital where most of what I did, so I would be on call overnight, most of what I did was, labor and delivery. And when I started applying for nursing school, I thought I was going to do pediatrics because I'd spent, like, 10 years this whole time, you know, the, the whole Spanish degree, the whole, um, getting the prerequisites, which like this all took about four years for my nursing and or medical degree that never happened. And then also while I was still in a medical school, I was interpreting as well, like do it for 10 years I was there. and so I thought, Oh, okay. Children's hospital. That's what I want to do. I applied and got a postpartum job. And I was moving to New York with my husband at the, well, not at the time, I mean, he's still my husband at the time I was moving to New York with my husband. And so I was like, okay, I'm just going to take that job. Sounds fun. And my mentor in that job said, you, you can't stay in postpartum. You need to move through all the different specialties because you need to be a float pole nurse. And if you want to do any additional things with your career. You need to have understanding of all of it, and you need to be proficient in all of it. And so, I just said, okay, I guess that's what I'm doing. And so, we moved two years after we got there, because it's hard to raise a kid in New York City. So, we,

Kiona: 55:30

So I've heard.

Kelly: 55:31

after, after my daughter was born, we just got right out. So, now we're in the D. C. area, and I got a job in labor and delivery. I was like, perfect, my plan is coming to fruition. And then I became a float pole nurse, and When the opportunity presented itself, I basically went for it and if it didn't work out, I made it work out.

Kiona: 55:52

Mm hmm.

Kelly: 55:53

It's like, I just knew what the next step was and if it didn't work out here, I was going there. But it was like, if I stay on this general path, that's where I need to be. And that's kind of how I got where I'm at, you know?

Kiona: 56:08

hmm.

Kelly: 56:09

I don't know. It's almost like it's, I feel like in my life I can see the path before me, but it's like all foggy in front of me. But the fog lifts as I take the next step. And I'm like, Oh, okay. I'm going to go there. I'm gonna stay on the path. I'm not going to go over here where there's, like, wolves, and I'm not going to go over here where there's grizzly bears, but I'll stay on the path and trust that the fog will lift and everything will become clear. And that's kind of how I got where I'm going. I have no idea where I'm going at this point.

Kiona: 56:39

Hey, who says you gotta go anywhere? You know, you could just stay where you're at right

Kelly: 56:43

I might be I might have arrived. Who knows?

Kiona: 56:45

you might have arrived. You never know. But I mean, you know. So many people make so many decisions to get to where they are today and actually, I'm going to say everybody makes so many decisions to get to where they are today. And the fact that you landed here and you're doing all the things that you're doing, I think is super, super great. I did want to touch on the fact that you are doing a lot, right? Like you're a labor and delivery nurse, you're a podcast host, you're a life and mindset coach, so like, you're doing all these things on top of being a wife, on top of being a mom. So, what is your connection to the word burnout?

Kelly: 57:27

That is excellent. Okay. So I'm not going to say that I don't ever feel burnt out,

Kiona: 57:33

I think if you did, I would say you're a liar.

Kelly: 57:35

I am. Yeah, I would be a liar. In fact, this morning was the last time I felt burnt out,

Kiona: 57:41

tell me more

Kelly: 57:42

but but I know that I am on the right path. And so. I seek out opportunities to figure out what I need to do to become aligned with where I'm going, or what I need to, like, I kind of just ask for guidance from the universe to help me, like, relax into this place that I'm meant to be. I have a tendency to be that person that tries to hold on tightly. And I notice, I feel it in my body when I start to do that. I feel tension here in like the front of my shoulders, like almost as if I were holding on to all of the things that are important to me. I physically start to feel like I'm doing that. I also feel a lot of tension in the back part of my shoulders and I start to notice that I'm just like doing all these things to hold on. And I'm like, what, what am I holding on to? I don't have, and usually it's like task based. I have all these tasks that I need to do, but then I have to stop and say, what is the point? What is the point of everything I'm doing? And the point of all the things that I'm doing right now is so that I can spend more time with my family and doing the things that I love, and also so that I don't physically wear myself down by working at the hospital. And so my goal is to be able to pivot to do more birth coaching than hospital birthing because I'm 45 physically. Hospital birthing is too hard on my body. I've had injuries and I still have like, I go to the chiropractor all the time because I've got this shoulder injury from trying to Get a baby out that their shoulder was stuck. It's called shoulder dystocia and one of the maneuvers is to kind of put your fist into someone's pubic bone or above someone's pubic bone and manipulate the baby so that it can come out. I injured myself doing that. I've injured myself doing so many things and it's just not worth it because at the end of the day, what am I left with? And so when I look and I find this need with my patients, you know. That's what I felt like I was being called to do. It's hard to get there and, and how to get there is if you haven't, like if you don't have a business degree or you don't have a business plan and you're just kind of shooting in the dark. it's hard, but I keep the, understanding that When, when I get there, I know how it's going to look, and the goal, and even though I have to work hard right now, and it feels like I'm doing a lot, sometimes it feels like I'm doing too much, it's all, I'm open to the learning experience, and I'm open to what, what the final destination is, and I'm willing to put in the work to get there, and I have to back off sometimes, you know? Like this morning, I was going to get up, I was going to work out, I was going to do all my like mindset and meditation and stuff, and I was just freaking tired. And what I really needed to just do is stay in bed and cuddle with my five year old who is, you know, my daughter had already gone to school. He's going to kindergarten next year and I was like, I have like eight months left to do this. Alignment for me right now is staying in bed. Just asking the universe to tell me what to do today. Set up the plan for what needs to happen. And relax right now and try to let all that tension go from my body. And that's what I did. And I got a text from you, or a message from you saying, Hey, we've got this podcast today. And I was like, shoot, that wasn't on my schedule. But luckily, the other one I had scheduled before, I mean, it wouldn't have, it wouldn't have conflicted, but it would have been a big day. everything worked out and I felt like so aligned instead of stressed out. And so it's like, I need to remember, because I'm never, I'm never always on top of this, but I need to remember that I don't have to be in control. That there are things greater than me that are, that are making sure that I'm in the right place at the right time. And that's, that is all I need to do, is just to follow the path that I am on, and make sure that I take that step when I need to. And relax the rest of the way, which is hard to do, but.

Kiona: 1:02:07

You're preaching right now because I need to learn how to do that.

Kelly: 1:02:11

Girl, get some mindset training.

Kiona: 1:02:13

I know, I know. yeah, control. I would say both related to birth and just life in general, people having the urge to control is so huge because there's a lot of fear behind the unknown and the not being able to control. And so, you know, with it being the new year, 2024, a lot of people are like, new year, new me.

Kelly: 1:02:37

Mmhmm.

Kiona: 1:02:37

I am also a very strong advocate and every single day is new, right? So every single day you can make the decision to try something new, to do something different. Personally, for me, my thing that I'm doing right now is I'm journaling again and I made sure to start that before the new year because I was like, I gotta get this stuff out, you know, and it's actually been relieving and I'm like, Oh yeah, that really felt good. And I'm like physically journaling, like writing things down because I feel like utilizing your muscles and actually writing things down, getting the hand cramps and realizing all this needs to come out is really good. Um, I started meditating for only three minutes a day, and it's like actually really changed a lot of the things that I look, the way that I look at my day, and I'm looking forward to those three minutes, right? and so I'm trying, but it's hard. So I can definitely relate to Your description of all the things and the burnouts, because burnout isn't necessarily something that only happens and then stays consistent. It's an ebb and flow kind of thing.

Kelly: 1:03:44

It's a symptoms. It's when you know things are out of alignment. It's when you know you need to say, Okay, what do I need to fix? Did I step off the path? Am I stepping into the woods? Like, let's move back into alignment. Stay straight. Stay on that path. And Yeah. Get your mind right. Mm

Kiona: 1:04:08

I agree 100%. so I think that this is actually a good time to kind of slowly start ending the interview. I just have a few final closing questions for you. so my first question is, what advice would you give those that are wanting to work as a provider in your field, whether that be like a nurse or an OB but since you are a nurse, let's aim towards nurse.

Kelly: 1:04:30

Keep an open mind for opportunities, because just because you got your nursing degree and became a nurse and got your first job does not mean that that's the end. Like, that doesn't mean that's where you're going to stay. It also doesn't mean that you have to go back to school. There are so many, just, stay open to the possibilities that present themselves to you. And I keep going back to, like, listen to the universe because that's how I identify. I don't like to be denominational. I don't like to hang on to one religion because I know that everybody out there has their own thing that they identify with. but just, I feel like we are all, you know, like the butterfly effect. Like, we all have our path and the effect that we're supposed to have on this earth. Or, you know, wherever it probably spans through the galaxies. and I feel like we need to just really stay open to that energy where we're supposed to be. And so if you start to feel like you're not where you're supposed to be, start looking for where you are supposed to be. That's what I mean by opportunities. Opportunities can be positive or negative. You know, if you end up not loving where you're at, instead of being super sad about that and feeling stuck, that's an opportunity. And shift that mindset and find where you belong. because we've all had to do that. So, just, being a nurse opens up a lot of doors for people that do that. And don't stay in the mindset that that is the only place, like where you find a job is the only place that you can be. Because that's your job. Find the opportunities. Figure out where you're meant to be.

Kiona: 1:06:11

Yeah, I love that. I actually, earlier today, saw a post from someone random on the internet and they had said, don't let the degree you have, prevent you or stop you from doing something else. And I feel like that makes, that's a really good point. Cause you were just saying like, you know, just cause you got your nurse degree, it doesn't mean you have to stay there and be stuck there. I personally relate to that as well because I was, you know, going to midwifery school and then COVID messed that up for me and now I'm here and I'm still doing something that I absolutely love, but I would not likely be able to be a podcast host of this podcast if I was a midwife because I would have no gosh darn time. Right? So we all kind of fall amongst the stars, if you will, um, to whatever It's happening. So, yeah. Um, so my next question is, what is one word that you would use to describe your profession?

Kelly: 1:07:11

Hmm.

Kiona: 1:07:14

Yeah. One word is hard.

Kelly: 1:07:16

Literally what comes up for me, is insane.

Kiona: 1:07:20

Perfect. Perfect.

Kelly: 1:07:23

And I feel like you can relate to that.

Kiona: 1:07:25

Yes, I can. and I think it's a really good word, but you tell me why you choose insane.

Kelly: 1:07:30

Insane, because it's like so wonderful and gross and amazing and horrific and all of the things. It is like, it is so insane every day. It doesn't necessarily have to be my patient. It can be, you know, what, there's always insanity wherever, I mean, you have people with humans coming out of their body. There is no way it can't be insane. And all of the things that come up with that, and the reasons that they come into the hospital, and the feelings that they're having, like, all of the hormones and the emotions, like, every day is just nuts. It's absolutely insane. And, I love it.

Kiona: 1:08:13

Yeah. You gotta love it in order to stay I'd say. So, yeah. my final question for you is, what is one resource that I can share on your behalf for the listeners?

Kelly: 1:08:25

Okay, so, I have a freebie for, that I made for, like, it's called You're Pregnant, Now What?

Kiona: 1:08:31

Mm, nice.

Kelly: 1:08:32

So it's for people that just become pregnant and it's like, okay, stop what you're doing and do all these things.

Kiona: 1:08:37

Mm hmm.

Kelly: 1:08:38

And, so as far as, like, something that anyone that's potentially a listener that is maybe starting in the birth space could grab. that would be it. I mean, I can offer my coaching program, that would be amazing, but, that's not free.

Kiona: 1:08:54

Yeah, that's okay. Let's talk about it, though. Let's offer it as a resource as well.

Kelly: 1:08:57

The coaching program we start off with a six session. We can add more if we need to. but basic six session coaching program where we spend at the minimum six hours, one on one. Just talking through, like I said, the, three must haves, for sure, the, three obstacles or fears, making sure that your knowledge base, like, fill in the gaps for your knowledge base, to make sure that you understand literally everything that's going to happen to you in the hospital, even if you've taken a birth class. I want to elaborate on some things and clear up any misunderstandings, because There are always misunderstandings, and there's definitely a lot to know, making sure that your mindset is on course for what you need to do in the hospital. And then help you plug into the people that, the other people that you need to surround yourself with. So, there's resources out there that not everybody knows about. Like, Does Lamaze work better for you? Or are you a hypnobirthing type of person? Do you need a doula? Let's find a doula you align with. You know, let's find providers that you align with. Let's find a hospital that you align with, given your geography. And let's make sure that you're going to feel that you've put your, you've created a space that you can feel safe in, and how are we going to do that? and then, like I was saying earlier, like the guided imagery and the putting together the birth, vision board, and all of those things that it's going to take to get really clear. On what you need from your birth experience in order to feel safe, successful, and empowered. Because I think those things, those three key points are what help you avoid trauma. Now, if there is a negative, unforeseeable, unavoidable medical outcome, probably I will recommend that you get therapy because if you go through actual trauma. Not necessarily because your expectations weren't met, but because something happens to you or your baby, that is completely different. But avoidable emotional trauma is what I want to prevent when I'm working with my clients, so it's called the empowered hospital birth program

Kiona: 1:11:11

Mm. Love it. I think that the intention behind that program is immensely important. I feel that many people will benefit from that program because it is intentionally for people that are going and planning on having a hospital birth and navigating the system in which seems overwhelming and completely intimidating. So. I love that program. I think people are going to be, I love the idea of that program. I didn't go through it. I'm assuming that because you created it, it's amazing. Um, I think that it's really great and it's absolutely needed. And I guess my question to you is, is that program only for people that are going to attend hospital births at your locations or is it for anybody?

Kelly: 1:12:00

No, no, it's for anybody. And right now, I'm planning on creating a course. So right now it's more like for people that financially can afford private one on one, but my goal is to free up my time with that in order to take off more days from work so that I can create my course. I've already, like, I've got the platform, I've got literally everything I need to create the course. I am just lacking time because I am lacking funds to not work so much. So.

Kiona: 1:12:27

100% it's a cycle

Kelly: 1:12:29

yeah. So I have always worked with people that, need more resources than they have, and it is so out of my comfort zone to start working with people, I mean, I do both, right, but to cater to people that have more resources. So right now, my plan is to cater to those people so that I can go and make sure that I'm taking care of the people that need more resources. So, my approach is holistic in that sense. It's just not there yet.

Kiona: 1:13:05

That's okay. You know, we all have dreams and goals and it takes time to get there. So,

Kelly: 1:13:09

Right. That's why I started with the podcast, because that is a free resource.

Kiona: 1:13:13

Hey, that's why, that's why I'm here too. You know, so, yeah. Well, awesome, Kelly. Thank you so much. I'm so happy that we had this discussion and we were talking from the perspective of you as a nurse. I learned a lot in this conversation. So I'm sure that a lot of my listeners have learned a lot as well. And it just continues to add to the, the, melting pot of questions that I will forever have, surrounding birth and postpartum and birth location, place, and all that stuff, so thank you. Thank you so much.

Kelly: 1:13:42

Yes. Thank you. And thank you for reaching out

Kiona: 1:13:45

Yeah, of course. Yeah, of course. us birthy people need to stick together,

Kelly: 1:13:50

Right. Absolutely.

Kiona: 1:14:01

Interviewing Kelly for this episode was actually a lot of fun. I feel like the energies that we had with one another were so similar. And there were some times when we were both talking really fast because I think we got a little excited, but I just left it as is because that's true to our conversation. But Kelly, I wanted to say thank you so much again, and I'm so excited about this collab that we are doing. I also was interviewed this same day by Kelly for her podcast. And as a reminder, Kelly's podcast is the birth journeys podcast. And you have to be sure to put the word the. Because there is another podcast called birth journeys, but that one's not Kelly. So make sure when you look up the birth journeys podcast is hosted by Kelly Hoff and be sure to listen so that you can tune into my episode as well. And as for you listeners, I hope you listened with the intention of sharing with a friend. Because there was so much information packed into this episode that I know for sure is useful for some of you. As well as someone you may know, so share this episode far and wide, and don't forget to follow me on Instagram@birthasweknowitpodcast. Now for next week's episode, I had the opportunity to interview a sister of a past episode interviewee. So in episode 16, I had the opportunity to interview Sarah Ziroll and for the episode that comes out next week, I interviewed her sister, Christina Packard, and Christina is a mother of six and she is a partner of the made mindful business team. She dives into what it was like for her to experience six different C-sections and how she ended up with a C-section in the first place. So don't forget to tune in next week to hear all of the amazing juicy details of her story. And if you have any questions or want to reach out to me, Or if you want to share your birth story or experience on the podcast, head over to kionanessenbaum.com I would love to hear from you. All right friends, bye for now.