50-Bri Music-6 Vaginal Births-NICU-Student Midwife (CPM)

In this episode, Bri dives into all the details of her 6 personal birth experiences. We discussed how her cervix was considered “incompetent” leading her to need a cervical cerclage for 4 out of 6 of her pregnancies. She also talks about her different experiences in the NICU and about how important bilirubin checks truly are. 

birthasweknowitpodcast.com/50 

Disclaimer: This podcast is intended for educational purposes only with no intention of giving or replacing any medical advice. I, Kiona Nessenbaum, am not a licensed medical professional. All advice that is given on the podcast is from the personal experience of the storytellers. All medical or health-related questions should be directed to your licensed provider. 

Resources:

• Evidence Based Birth: https://evidencebasedbirth.com/ 
• Example of Car Bed: https://www.merrittcarseat.com/angelride/ 

Definitions:

• Hyperemesis Gravidarum (HG)
• Amnioinfusion 
• Incompetent Cervix 
• Cervical Cerclage
• Pulmonary Edema
• Preemies and Micropreemies
• Chorioamnionitis 
• Bradycardia Infants and Children
• Leopolds
• Hyperbilirubinemia 

Transcript

Kiona: 0:07

Hello, and welcome to Birth As We Know It. I am your podcast host, Kiona Nessenbaum. I have experienced birth as a doula, a student midwife, and as a mother of three amazing children with my husband and high school sweetheart by my side. After attending over 130 births, including my own, I've realized that each birth experience is truly unique. So make sure you subscribe and join me every week as we are guided through many different birth experiences through the lens of the storyteller. Please be aware that some of the stories can be triggering to hear, so feel free to pause, take a breath, and come back and listen whenever you're ready. With that said, let's prep ourselves to dive deep and get detailed about what really happens in the birth space. As a reminder, this podcast is intended for educational purposes only, and has no intention of giving or replacing any medical advice. All advice that is given on the podcast is from the personal experiences of the storytellers. All medical or health related questions should be directed to your licensed provider. Before we dive into the episode. I just want to give you a little bit of a heads up on the audio. Something was going on with Bri's mic but it did not sound the way that it does in this recording in real time. So I didn't realize that the audio was not clear. But please bear with me throughout this episode because her story is super important and I really, really want to get her stories out there and share them with you. I also want to ask you to please listen to this episode with the intention of sharing it with someone. Sharing an episode is one of the best ways to grow the BAWKI community. So let's go ahead and listen, but don't forget to share it when you hear something that pulls on your heartstrings. All right, let's get into the episode. Hello, everybody, and welcome back to the Birth As We Know It podcast. Today, I am excited to have on Bri Music, who is currently studying at the Midwives College of Utah, and she is in her third year of midwifery school, and she is also a mother of six. So welcome, Bri. I'm excited to have you on and talk about your stories.

Bri: 2:22

Hey, I'm excited to be here.

Kiona: 2:24

Yeah. So let's go ahead and dive in by starting off with you telling us a little bit about yourself and who's in your family.

Bri: 2:32

All right. So, I'm Bri. I don't have a lot of time for any other hobbies other than parenthood and midwifery school right now, but I love to, read and do a little bit of doula work when I've got the time for it. I got interested in birth work when I was like 12. and my mom, like I told her I wanted to be an obstetrician and she told me you don't like to get your hands dirty. I'm not sure this is the job for you and I can't really picture you as a surgeon. And I later realized that there was other options after one of my high school friends gave birth at home and made it part of her senior project. So there was photos and she had like a blow up kiddie pool in her living room and I was like, Oh my gosh, like this is a thing. I want to do that. I actually went to my first birth. It was a hospital birth when my oldest sister gave birth to my nephew. I was 14. She was 17 and I spent this whole time in the hospital watching this baby come into the world and I got to cut his cord. And I was like, this is super cool. I don't know what my mom was talking about. This isn't disgusting at all. So. I knew that that was when I really wanted to go ahead and do something.

Kiona: 3:45

I think that is super awesome, and I think it's really cool how you had a seed planted deeper when you were in high school by a friend. How cool of it to make that their senior project, and how cool of it for her to have a home birth at that young age.

Bri: 4:01

Yeah, it really helped put me on that path. So like, when I, left high school and I started looking into midwifery school, I didn't realize that there were a lot of options for midwifery school, so I just kind of hopped on the internet, such as it was back at that time, and was like, oh, Bastyr a thing. And I was like, ooh, that's expensive, I'm poor. I'm going to go ahead and go over to Pierce and do some prerequisites, get some of the stuff knocked out and kind of set myself on the path for success and I'm going to go be a midwife. but I settled down super young and I actually got pregnant with my first when I was 19, on purpose. I was like, this seems like something I could do, you know, simultaneously. It is not. It turns out I had hyperemesis and so all I actually did was vomit 24/7. So I kind of put midwifery on hold and when I got pregnant with my first, I was like, okay, well, I'm going to go ahead and I'm going to have a home birth. That is not how it played out, but it was definitely the goal I had in mind.

Kiona: 4:59

mmm I think that's really cool. I am one of your comrades, I guess, in settling down very young. I also had my first at 19 and, it adds an extra layer of potential challenges when going into midwifery school. so yeah, I want to go ahead and dive into how your first pregnancy and birth experience was because you did mention you had hyperemesis, which is extremely uncomfortable, challenging and all the things. So let's get into it.

Bri: 5:30

Yes. so, she is I'm going to be 17, in just a few weeks. So it's been a while, but first couple of weeks of pregnancy were normal. Like like I was just like, okay, this is going to be fine. I'm going to live this normal lifestyle. Like, and by week eight, that was wildly untrue. And it never occurred to me that I was throwing up more than the normal person. I just assumed. I was like, oh, it's morning sickness. Everybody must wake up and then throw up and then walk to the bathroom and then throw up and then try to come get breakfast and then throw up and so it was just this constant barrage of sickness, and it was like that the whole time. I just basically lived off of fruit and things that I could easily throw back up that didn't taste too bad, that didn't irritate my throat. I didn't gain any weight, until the very, very end of my pregnancy, which you think means nine months, but it was six. and so, like, I barely just started a show when I went into labor. for my first, I didn't see the same midwives that I see now. I'm not going to say who I did see because I don't want to be like, oh, they missed this thing, but nobody was like, hey, so you throw up a lot more than is normal, right? Like this early stage of pregnancy, people don't do a lot of visits. And I didn't know to be like, hey, I'm like super miserable. Is that normal? I just assumed that because people complained about morning sickness, that my morning sickness was the level of morning sickness that people had, and so I just kind of rolled with it. I did call them when I lost my mucus plug at 26 weeks, and I was like, hey, so this doesn't seem like it's normal, right? Like, that seems bizarre, and they asked some follow up questions and were like, is it bloody? No? Okay, well, we see you next week, so we'll see you next week. but they did not see me next week because, it was Valentine's Day, my water just broke. I had been sick all morning, I lived next door to my parents. I walked over to my mom's house and, was waiting for her to get off work and was like, I'm going to go take a nap. And so I was laying in my mom's bed, waiting for her to get home from work. And I woke up because I had this weird sensation. And I couldn't put my finger on it, and I can't even explain what it was that I felt, but I felt it. And I hopped out of the bed and like bolted across the hallway to the bathroom. And my water just broke everywhere. And I was 27 weeks pregnant. So I just sort of stood there like a moron and wrapped a towel around my waist, I went and called her on the phone and was like, Hey mom, my water broke. And she goes, Call 911, why are you calling me?

Kiona: 8:15

Yeah, that, oh gosh, I can't even imagine what was going through your head because with it being your first kiddo, like, all of the unknowns are just there and so you're like, oh, okay, and me throwing up this much is completely normal. I've heard about morning sickness. And then, putting trust into your providers to be like, hey, I heard about this mucus bug thing and I think that this is what it is. And they're like, ah, don't worry, you're early. Like, we'll see you next week. Especially with it being your first, how do you know when the red flags or sirens are going off, you know? So, I can't even imagine what that felt like because I'm sure you also assumed that you had a lot more time left.

Bri: 8:56

Yeah.

Kiona: 8:57

How, did that early arrival of your babe Impact, like, your surroundings. Meaning, like, did you have everything you needed for them? Was she in the NICU for a while with being that early?

Bri: 9:10

So we didn't have, like, anything. Like, I thought I had months to prepare. obviously, you know, most first babies are going to come after their due date. And even though my mom never made it all the way to her due date, I, she still made it mostly there. Like, and so I had this idea that it would take time and I would have plenty of time to get ready. And I had just, we had just moved into this apartment next door to my parents house. And so we had barely enough stuff for us. I'm pretty sure the only thing in my freezer was like ice cream. and so my water broke, and I got a nice, fun ride in an ambulance to the hospital. thankfully the EMTs, like we lived, I lived in Sumner at the time, and the EMTs were like, Hey, so we're not going to take you over to Good Sam, because they're not prepared, for this. So we're just going to call, get permission to take you not to the nearest hospital. and don't worry, I have six kids of my own. This is going to be fine. And so, like, I wish I'd had the thought in my mind to be like, Who is this guy? I want to set, you know, tell him thank you later because this is scary, but I, I, I was, you know, in it, right? So it wasn't one of those things I thought to ask at the time. but I got to spend four days in the, antenatal unit there at the hospital. It does not look the same anymore. I've been back since, but I got to live in the hospital for a few days. We got to have, beta methasone shots for her lungs and, they tried to stop my labor. So I've also had the joyous experience of magnesium sulfate. It turns out, if they don't tell you ahead of time, like, Hey, so by the way, don't drink water. This is going to make you feel hot. It's going to make you feel disgusting. You're going to feel thirsty. And nobody was like, Hey, so you're on IV fluids, don't drink. So then I'm like drinking water. And I ended up with like a mild case of pulmonary edema because nobody told me not to drink any water. and then they, they took it from me eventually, but they're like, Oh my God, I can't believe they didn't tell you when they admitted you not to drink this water. but I managed to stop my contractions for, like, four days, and they came back on that fourth day in the morning. And I was like, how long do I stay here, like, completely ruptured membranes? Which is not what I said.

Kiona: 11:24

Mm hmm.

Bri: 11:24

Like, remember, this is 19 year old me. How long do I stay here with my water broken? and I'm starting to have contractions again. Like, do we just do this forever? And they said, yeah, you know, honestly, as long as you can possibly stay pregnant is as long as we will let you stay pregnant. That's really all there is to it. And I wish that there had been more education that got into it. They just kind of come in and out. They went in and out. I didn't have my midwives that I was using because I had to go to a hospital that was like outside of their system. and so they had to release my care. So I'm just seeing the on call doctor, whoever's there. I'm just seeing the nurses who are there. And because I'm in a, like a long term area, nobody's sitting in here and like really educating me about what's happening. Like the heads up I got was like, Hey, yo, babies this early tend to need to be resuscitated. So like if she's born and she doesn't cry, try not to freak out. We're on it. And, like, that's the information I got. So, I wasn't really sure what was going to be happening, and all I had was faith that I was in the right place, and that we were going to be getting the care that we would need to get. so it never really occurred to me, like, that that 90 percent survival rate would have been us being the 10%. Like, 10 percent sounds high if, like, it's risk of death. Like, if I was going to go outside and, like, hey, if you step outside, there's, like, a 10 percent risk you die, I'm not walking out that door. but when you're saying, hey, there's a 90 percent chance your baby lives, you're like, okay, I'm gonna lean on that. and so I don't feel like I was even really as scared as I think I should have been simply because I was just like, blissfully ignorant. and I'm really thankful for that. Because it means that I had nothing but hope for the best possible outcome. So I had a contraction started again that morning, and I just kind of like let it be and rolled with it. Everybody was doing their own thing. by that evening, my mom had like gone home to sleep. my first husband was running a comic book store, so he was like never with me because he had to be in control of that thing. So he was gone, and he'd just gotten back to the hospital and like climbed in there, laid into the little chair, was gonna go to sleep. And it's like 11 at night and I'm feeling uncomfortable. but because I only see the nurses when they come in every few hours, I'm just kind of dealing with it, watching MTV or something, and I've read every book that everybody's brought me at this point. It's been days. And so I'm on my hands and knees to sort of relieve this discomfort that I'm having. And the nurse comes in and is like, are you uncomfortable? I was like, yeah. She's like, are you feeling like a pressure? And I was like Yeah, kind of. Yeah, that's what I would describe it like. It's not, it doesn't hurt, but I feel like a pressure and I just thought if I got on my hands and knees, like it would go away maybe. And she was like, I'm going to get the doctor and I need you to lay back down on your back because we need to check you. because nobody at this point has ever described to me what birth is like. Like I, I, I've seen, I've seen people have babies, but I've seen people have full term babies. And, only like two people at this point. I am a 19 year old. I'm the first of my friends to have kids. I've got one nephew and I have several younger siblings and I wasn't there for most of their births. So I don't know that that pressure is the normal feeling that you would expect as baby is descending through the birth canal because nobody has talked to me about this. The childbirth education class I was going to take at, the birthing inn. It doesn't start for like seven more weeks. So like, I'm completely in the dark. so she runs off to get the on call doctor. They come back and they check me and the doctor looks at me and says, you may still have some cervix left, but I can't tell because it would be behind your baby's head. And so they're like, we're going to roll you from this room over to the birth room and you're going to have a baby now. And I told them, I said, well, can I wait for my mom? So they had to wake up my first husband. And he's calling my mother because I was like, you call my mom. And, they're rolling me down to the birth room and they're asking me like, I guess they asked me, they must have asked me like, can the students watch? And I must have said yes, because after the fact I was like, hey, so there were like 25 extra people in this room, like, who were they? And they're like, oh, well there's the NICU team and the students. And I was like, oh, just because apparently micro preemies are not the world's most common occurrence. They like to get people in there to see when they get a chance to see. and my mom I guess sped, the should be 30 minute drive to the hospital, and arrived shortly after the birth of my daughter. Who had like the world's, her court was only like, I don't know, six inches long. It was the shortest thing I'd ever seen. And her little placenta was very tiny. and I remember thinking it was tiny then. even though I'd never really, I'd only seen a couple in my life. I was like, this seems small, but she was born and they like held her near like the vagina still because they were waiting, they were like, Oh, we're just waiting for some cord slack. And I was like, okay. And she's making these little kitten crying you sounds. So I'm just excited that my baby is alive. Like I'm like, Oh my God, she's crying. She sounds like a kitten. and they're telling me they're waiting for cord slack and it just didn't come. And so after like 60 straight seconds of staring at me, they're like, I don't think we're getting any. I think we're just going to go ahead and cut the cord And so back in a day of not delayed cord clamping, we accidentally got some. So that was nice, in retrospect, right? and she was pulled away. She was intubated. I didn't actually see her for two hours. They took me up to postpartum to recover and when they came in to fill out some paperwork stuff like two hours later, I was like, so when do I get to see my baby? And they told me, Oh, we thought you would like to rest. I'm like, no, I understand that at this point it's like one in the morning, but like no one wants to rest before seeing their baby after giving birth. So

Kiona: 17:20

It always just surprises me so much when providers do that because, yeah, I think it is a little bit different for your scenario because your baby did have to go to the NICU. She did have to get taken away. But, I'm always so surprised when people don't ask, Hey, when do you want to see your baby? You know, like. Do you, your baby's ready now, would you like to see her now? Because you just went through all of that for this invisible child until you have that visual of being able to see them and hopefully soon be able to touch them depending on how intense the situation is. But, man, yeah, that's That's always so interesting to me. So I do have one question. You said that you were in the hospital for four days prior to giving birth. So and your waters were ruptured. So did you do like amniocentesis while you were there? Like were they continuously pumping water back into you or were you just like in through your uterus or were

Bri: 18:26

no. Um, so they didn't do the amnio, infusion. They put me on IV fluids and were like, your body will still make some fluids for her. And so like I just laid there on like chucks pads just like leaking fluid for four straight days. we did do antibiotics to prevent infection. Like, at that point, they were, they were like, Hey, so we're leaving you here. Even if we did have a negative group B strep test or, what have you, we would still do this just because if we're leaving, your water's broken, you're at risk for a Chorioamnionitis, right? so we did do lots of antibiotics and lots of fluids, but I think just because of the risk of putting something into the vagina when you're going for like a long term stay, they were probably, it was probably a risk benefit analysis they did kind of without my input.

Kiona: 19:12

Hmm.

Bri: 19:13

because I'm just some 19 year old girl who's like, do what you do guys.

Kiona: 19:18

Yeah, exactly. Oh, man. Yeah. And thank you for correcting me on that. It is amnioinfusion. and that's an interesting call. And I do think that what you said makes sense for them to do like a risk and benefit determinant.

Bri: 19:33

And it was like, it was gross membrane rupture. So you would think that there would be like a need for some additional fluid, but it seemed like it must've been fine. They did do, an ultrasound on arrival. so we had a good idea of the size of the baby and we had a good idea, of fluid levels to see if there were still pockets of fluid up around her. And so I think it was just that it looked good enough. and she was a pretty good sized 27 week baby, at 2 pounds, 6 ounces.

Kiona: 20:00

Nice, yeah, that is a decent size for 27 weeks. I had, a family member of mine who also had a preemie, a micro preemie babe, and their baby was under two pounds, so.

Bri: 20:11

Yeah, and that's sort of the usual, like, a baby who hasn't hit 28 weeks yet is probably not gonna be the biggest baby you've ever seen. and so she did end up staying about 70 days in the NICU.

Kiona: 20:24

I was just about to lead into that. How did your NICU stay with her impact your bonding as well as, like, your feeding choices?

Bri: 20:34

so I had already decided, that I was going to breastfeed my baby. It wasn't something that a lot of people in my family had done. all of my siblings were formula fed. I was formula fed. and so the first person I ever saw breastfeed was my older sister when she breastfed my nephew. And I was like, oh, yeah, no, that makes sense. but I hadn't, considered it before that so like I knew I was going to breastfeed. and this is back in the era of like mom forums. And so I was on a mommy forum and people had talked about their breastfeeding choices and how they were going to breastfeed. And I was like, I'm going to breastfeed. I'm going to breastfeed for two years. And, they had, somebody bring me a breast pump and were like, okay, so here you go. This is your symphony. You have it the whole time your baby's in the hospital, pump every two hours for 20 minutes, both sides. And, there's a lactation group. You can come meet with other, other parents of preemies, like, once a week here if you need some support. And there you go. And nobody ever said that, like, this might be difficult or that I might not respond to the pump or any of that stuff. They just kind of handed it to me and said, there you go, you got this kid. And I was like, okay, I got this. Like, I was never worried that it wasn't going to happen. Like, it never occurred to me that this would not be a thing that could just happen because why wouldn't it? Why wouldn't I be able to do this thing? I chose to do it. And so I pumped there at the bedside. There's a pumping room, or there was a pumping room in the NICU. This was before they were individualized rooms. So they were in big, like, wards of babies in little tiny plastic boxes. And there's like a pump room set up down the hall. but you could also pump at the bedside. And so I would pump at the bedside and I would cart that thing around. like I'm 19, I have an active social life and I'm carrying this gigantic like thing that weighs more than a bowling ball everywhere I go so that I can be on this strict pumping schedule so that I've got plenty of milk for this baby. I was pumping infinitely more than she needed, way before she was able to eat, but I was not going to let her being early stop me from being able to breastfeed her until she was two. And so, I just breastfed, we breastfed there at, when we had moved up to the level 2 NICU, so once she was able to, start taking feeds by mouth, around 34 weeks, I was able to put her to the breast, and she responded well enough, it's exhausting for little babies to start taking their feeds orally, and so we left the nasal tube in. So we started just breastfeeding. As soon as she stopped, needing to be sedated quite so much, we switched over. I had to stay in a room there in the NICU, from like 35 weeks to 37 weeks gestational age, because she had switched over to being able to feed all the time. And as soon as she would pass the car seat test, she would be allowed to go home. The car seat test is this thing where they put your baby on the heart monitors and then set them in their car seat. And then they have to be able to sit in this car seat without having a bradycardia for twice as long as it takes to get home from the hospital. And she would make it. Almost all the way And she did this for like two straight weeks before they sent us home with a car bed.

Kiona: 23:30

A car bed.

Bri: 23:31

I didn't know was a thing until they did it.

Kiona: 23:32

I did not either.

Bri: 23:34

And it just, it lays, it's a car seat, it lays flat, and it's for medically complex children usually. Um, so the insurance covered it. And they were like, please take your perfectly fine baby out of our NICU. At this point, she's just taking up space.

Kiona: 23:47

So, did she have to travel in that car bed after the trip home?

Bri: 23:53

I did it for a few weeks until I was feeling pretty safe to switch her. And I think part of it was just her size. After she'd gained enough weight and she was more appropriately sized for a regular car seat, we switched over and I think it's because she was about, she was five pounds three ounces when she left the NICU. And car seats are not all set up for five pound babies. A lot of them are like, assuming your baby will be six or seven pounds.

Kiona: 24:19

Yeah. That's so interesting. So as you were parenting her and as she was developing, were you having to like watch all of her milestones and everything more closely since she was a micro preemie or were things a little bit different?

Bri: 24:32

So every baby that spends significant time in the NICU. gets scheduled immediately for like what we call neonatal follow up visits. they do them at 6 months, 12 months, 18 months, and 2 years. and then they can kind of like either refer them for early intervention services that are necessary, or they just kind of go, well, looks like a kid's normal and they let you go. so she did those follow up appointments and she was always on or above what they expected for gestational age. so we were able to just age out eventually.

Kiona: 25:06

Hmm, that's awesome. I think that's really cool. That's really cool. You said she's 17 now.

Bri: 25:11

Yep, on the 17th.

Kiona: 25:14

17 on the 17th, so this is her golden year.

Bri: 25:17

Yeah, we are throwing her a big, giant party.

Kiona: 25:21

Oh, nice. So how does it feel to see her at 17 and think about her birth story

Bri: 25:26

It's crazy to me, like, all the time. She's, Almost normal sized She's five feet tall. and it's just, it's, it's insane to me. Like, and I think it's insane to her too. Like, I always love, like, look at you, look at you as this tiny baby. Like your skin is translucent. You don't have nipples. It's just like, please stop talking and can I get them pierced? No. For the no. Uh, and so like, it's just, it's really strange that I'm like, I grew you inside of me and you're like. Almost an adult. And she's like, ew, don't say that. Like, no, really. You're almost an adult. Like you can drive and like, go see a rated R movie by yourself. Like it's, it's really weird.

Kiona: 26:09

Mm, yeah. I'm looking forward to those days, but also like, eh, nervous. My daughter's 10 right now and I just know that it's going to be an interesting thing to watch. And it's going to be hurtful as well as exciting and just like all the emotions at once.

Bri: 26:25

yeah, absolutely. I picked up my second child who is, 15, in March. I read one of those things where it's like, oh, This, the last time you picked up your child, I was like, you, you were like five foot six. Come here. And I was just,

Kiona: 26:40

picked him up.

Bri: 26:41

yeah, because it was, I wasn't going to let the last time be the last time because I didn't remember it. I was like, no, no, no, I have to remember it. So like I picked him up and then like wrote about it on Facebook. It's like,

Kiona: 26:53

Nice.

Bri: 26:53

there, now I know. And my kids are like, please stop mom. And i'm like, no, I have to pick you all up now.

Kiona: 27:00

Oh, I love that. So, speaking of your second, let's go ahead and lead into, your thought process when you were conceiving him, like, was he planned, knowing that you had this really long NICU stay with your first. How did that go? And how was your pregnancy?

Bri: 27:16

Yeah. So after that whole, like NICU thing, I was like, I don't know if I could do that again, guys. Like that was awful. I threw up for six straight months and then we had three months in the NICU and then got to do a more normal baby experience. And that was just. It was a lot. And then I tried to picture my oldest being like six and alone. And I was like, no, I don't like that. I don't want that to be the time. I'm like, I guess I should have had another one because you can't go back in time. And so I just sort of suddenly Like, it was like, hey, what if we had another baby and, he was like, yeah, okay, yeah, that seems fine. We can have another baby. even though clearly I was horribly miserable, I don't know what possessed him to be like, yeah, this seems like a good idea. Let's have more children. but I just, I explained it, I was like, I just don't want, I can't picture her being an only child. Like, I don't think I want that for her. And I'm like, and, you know, honestly, I've read that it's, like, how quickly she was conceived was probably a fluke, like, it'll probably take us a couple months, I've been on birth control for the last couple of months, and depo takes some time to leave your system, etc, etc. So I'm, like, talking about, like, it's gonna take a while. We immediately got pregnant. like immediately, didn't even have like a period, like I had no period between children. And so I had no idea that it was just going to happen. but, it did. So they're only barely like two years apart. so you have her birthday and then two weeks later you have his birthday. And, although two weeks before that starts, so like next weekend. we have my third child's birthday,

Kiona: 28:58

tend to conceive around the same time, huh?

Bri: 28:59

no, that's the fun part because two of them were early.

Kiona: 29:04

Ah, that's right, that's right,

Bri: 29:06

yeah, so so we just kind of decided to have another one and I was like, I hope this one's a boy, just because it would be nice. And most of my family was girls, not this generation, the next generation is not, but, I was hoping that it would be a different experience, as far as being able to try and go for that home birth. And so. I got online, and Googled home birth midwives near Sumner, and I found, First Light Midwifery Care in Tacoma. I was like, I could make that drive. That seems fine. I'm going to go ahead and interview her. And see if she'll take me even though my first baby was early. And, we talked about it, I remember, sitting in her office. And now that I'm, like, old, I can picture how she must have been looking at me like, As this 20, barely 21 year old thing being like, I'm having my second baby. She's probably like, you're so tiny. Like, uh, but cause I, I do it, like I see my son and my clients and I'm like, I remember being young. But like, I interviewed her and I was like, Hey, this is what happened. I don't know why. and we determined that because nothing happened bad with the birth itself, that there was no real reason not to, give it a try, right? And so she was like, you can see, Dr. Jung and Dr. Baghdadi and talk to them and we'll see what extra stuff we need to do to see what we can do to make sure that you're gonna get to term and then you can have that baby at home. Like, we'll see where this goes. and so I started going in there as well. And so I was kind of doubling up on appointments, just to kind of watch things and to see what was happening. And they were like, there's really nothing we can do to tell you why your first baby was early while nothing is happening to you right now. And while you're not pregnant with that first baby, and like, we weren't there. they're like, but we can kind of take a watch and see approach. Or you can assume something is wrong. You can have a surcloge placed. and then that causes some damage to your cervix, and you'll need to have a cerclos placed for every subsequent baby. And I was like, well, that doesn't seem like a great idea. I'll do the watch and see approach. And so we started doing ultrasounds of my cervix to make sure that everything was looking good, looking normal. And I went in at 28 weeks for one of those cervical ultrasounds, and they were like, hey, so you're having some significant funneling. We need you to go from here to the hospital. Which is a huge bummer when you have, like an 18 month old child at home. and so I went straight from that appointment and, had to stay for a few days while they put me on magnesium and they were hoping to get things to kind of Um, close back up and then I moved to home to finish off my bed rest in the comfort of my own home. Dr. Jung's thought was just that hospitals are for sick people and I was more likely to pick up an infection or to have something go poorly if I was hanging around in a hospital versus if I was just hanging around in my bed. and so I got to spend the next five weeks on bed rest before, labor started anyway. They sent me home with terbutaline. like in a pill form, but, if you've never had Tributaline, which is a blood pressure medication, it makes you feel like you're snorting straight Starbucks coffee beans and, or like, I don't know, probably cocaine. I've never done cocaine, but this is what I imagine it feels like. It's awful. It makes your heart race, and I was just like, I don't know that I like this. and so, I woke up with contractions, at 33 weeks and, like, the first one woke me up, like, literally at 6 a. m. and I was like, oh, oh, that hurt. And then I had another one at 8 a. m. and I was like, Uh, I was really hoping to make it to like 35 weeks and, you know, then at 10 I had another one and I was like, well, this is just the slow crawl of doom. And so by 10 o'clock that night, I had just sort of had to give into the fact that I was clearly in now like labor, labor. and I made my mom make me dinner before she was allowed to drive me to the hospital because I was like, they will not feed me, mom. I can't go in there and not eat. and so, we ate food and then went to the hospital where I have to, admit that I was just absolutely insufferable as a patient. I'm not a very good patient, but I was I was insufferable. And my, my mom's like, could you be nicer to the nurses? And I was like, could they be less stupid? cause we got there and they were like, well, what brings you in? And I was like, the labor. And they're like, well, are you sure? And I was like, well, it's my second one. And so, yes. What do you mean, am I sure? I am contracting. This is labor. that's why I'm here. And so they, put me in a room and they were very dismissive. And so the more dismissive they were, the bigger a jerk I was back. And this probably slowed things down, I admit. But they didn't check me for a significant period of time. So then I'd been there for a few hours. I'm hanging out in this room waiting for them to get around to it. Somebody finally comes in and checks me and they're like, Oh, well, we can't send you home. Like, we can't stop this and send you home because you're, at four centimeters, but you've got a bulging bag of waters. I was like, well, I might not have been if you'd have checked me when I got here. And they like, just, they just left the room and my mom was like, stop being mean. And it was like, they have to stop being stupid. And like, I don't know. It wasn't a bad place to give birth. I was at St. Joe's this time. I made it past 32 weeks. So that doctor wanted me to be at St. Joe's. And they were actually really nice, once I'd switched over to, the area where you give birth, I was like, hey, so here's my birth preferences, I would like the lights dim, I want everyone to leave me the heck alone, I don't want to be hooked up to the IVs, I want to walk around, and I just kind of want to, you know, do my own thing, I didn't want to be here, and they were, at that point, really pretty good about it. Um, They had to come in when they had to come in, but I didn't have to have continuous fetal monitoring because I asked not to. I had, my IV was hep locked, because, again, I hadn't made it to the point where, I had been able to be checked for group B strep, so they were like, we really want to give you antibiotics, if your water breaks, at the very least, could you please let us set this IV up so that if we have to do it later, it's not going to be like us trying to poke you. And I was like, yeah, I guess so, fine. I did have, More of a birth experience that I had planned for, I had been able to give some thought to, and I'd been to exactly two of my childbirth prep classes this time, when I didn't show up, they called me like the following week, and they were like, did you give birth? I was like, I did. yeah. Oh man, yeah thats...

Kiona: 35:35

I, honestly, I totally understand why you would have just been, like, rude to people, because you're, like, ugh, this again, and nobody's listening, and Knowing that if they did make the decision to just treat you per protocol by giving you a vaginal exam or cervical exam, right, when you come in to get a feel of where things are, things could have potentially really changed with the decisions that were made that point forward, and things could have been a little different. Does that mean that you would have held your baby for weeks until they were born, probably not, but who knows, all our bodies are different. And, this pregnancy with your son, you gave birth at 33 weeks?

Bri: 36:18

yes.

Kiona: 36:19

And then with your daughter, it was 27?

Bri: 36:22

yeah

Kiona: 36:23

yeah. So you made it a few more weeks.

Bri: 36:26

it's significantly different, actually. So. Dawn, bless her heart. I called her at like midnight after we were truly admitted and was like, Hey, sorry, I'm giving birth. And she got up out of bed and came and sat with me for the duration of my labor. My son was born at 7 14 in the morning. Dr. Baghdadi showed up at seven to deliver him. because, you know, that's the way this is done, right? they called him and he basically told the nurses his thoughts on things that were happening all through the night and then showed up at 7 a. m., was like, ooh, baby's having D cells. I think his cord might be wrapped around his shoulders or something. It was. you have a bit of a cervical lip, but I'm just going to hold this down and have you push. This is a very uncomfortable thing if you've never had someone do this to you, and that's how my son was born. But it was really wonderful to have my midwife with me throughout this experience. so it's my mom and my midwife were, were able to, Kind of walk around with me be there my dad sat in the waiting room so he could pop in and take pictures after The baby had arrived. He was like, I really don't need to watch watch guys and it was different because I knew also this time having had a preemie before I knew What was important to me about that birth experience on that postpartum experience, right? So the lack of being able to do what you would normally do, like, I know that my 33 weeker isn't going to be able to breastfeed. I know that they're going to need to take him over to the NICU at this point. But I also knew that it was likely that he was going to be stable enough for me to hold him. And so I let them know, like, I want to hold my baby before you take him. Like, if he does not need to be immediately intubated, I would like him to be handed to me. and so they did hand him to me. now I would have asked for skin to skin rather than have him wrapped up and handed to me the way he was. you know, with my gown still on and him wrapped in the receiving blanket and what have you. but I was able to hold my five pound, three ounce newborn boy and actually kiss his little face and touch him before they took him away from me. and then I was able to go straight to the NICU after they were like, yeah, you're cool and be able to be there with my baby a lot faster. and so knowing what to expect, I think makes a really, really big difference, in the birth experience.

Kiona: 38:48

Yeah, I would agree with that 100%. The first time around you were like, I don't know, you tell me what to do, and this time you're like, nope, I'm doing this, this, this, and this. I think it's super awesome that your voice was heard more the second time and you felt like you had more agency and power to actually make some of the decisions and then stick to that and keep your foot down with some of those things. So I think that's really awesome. How was your breastfeeding experience with him?

Bri: 39:15

It was a little bit different. I think, the hospital didn't have as much, like, investment into how it went. I didn't like the pump either. They had, different pumps and, they were just kind of like, well, you've done this, just figure it out. but he did, go straight to the breast, pretty early. Cause they were like, oh, well, he looks like he could suck. Go ahead and give it a shot. so it was a pretty easy transition. There was a lot less exclusively pumping, a lot less pumping in general, and it was a pretty, pretty quick transition from, tube to breastfeeding.

Kiona: 39:44

Tube to boob.

Bri: 39:45

Yeah, that's totally what went through my mind. I was like, don't say that.

Kiona: 39:49

Yeah, no, that's awesome. I think that's really cool. And I bet that you having your first breastfeeding experience, especially with knowing that when you first started breastfeeding with your first child, You knew how exhaustive it was for them, and then it was a little bit different because the second time around your baby had a little bit more energy, I'm assuming, to be able to handle that breastfeeding.

Bri: 40:15

He was just, you know, gestational age makes a really big difference.

Kiona: 40:19

Yeah. Yeah, for sure. Let's go ahead and dive into the conception, pregnancy, and birth of your third kiddo.

Bri: 40:27

So by that point, I was like, okay, I now know that there's an option for trying to carry a term. so I wasn't as questioning about whether or not I'd like to have more kids. I knew I would like to have more kids. And so I got pregnant. I immediately showed up at Dawn's and was like, let's do this thing. had my consultation over with, Dr. Jung. And, he was like, okay, so we're going to do the cerclage this time. Here's what a cerclage is, and he literally drew a cervix and strings to show you just basically sew it up and tighten it like a purse string and it just holds it closed. and I was like, this is actually, like, on the one hand, he dumbed it down, like, a lot. And on the other hand, it was really good to know that I was being really informed about what was going to be happening he also did tell me though, like, because my last two babies were sort of larger for gestational age, that he expected that this would be a larger baby. And he was like, and you're kind of small, so you might be trading, like, term birth for a C section. And I was like, I have faith that that's not true. But if it were, that's still the right decision, I still think that's the right call, so let's just do it this time. So that's where I had my official diagnosis of an incompetent cervix. or cervical insufficiency, like however you want to say that. One is kind of rude and the other one is less rude. And so I knew that without this, I was unlikely to carry this baby to 37 weeks and I was definitely not going to be getting a home birth. And with it, I might have that option. and so I was able to have my cerclage placed. We put me under. normally they offer you the option to have a spinal block and just have it placed. either way you're going into the OR. It's an outpatient. Like, it's just a really quick procedure. but I don't like the idea of needles in my spine. It's part of the reason that, home birth was appealing to me. And I was like, pass. You knock me out. and so they put me under and placed a double McDonald and told me to like take it easy through pregnancy. And so in this case, now I have two toddlers at home and I'm trying to like take it easy, but I did carry all the way to 37 weeks. I had my cerclage removed at like 37 and one, and went into labor at 37 and four. And, we did end up transferring in labor to have another hospital birth. I cried, but he was not positioned well. And after, like, 40 hours of waiting for this baby and having, like, rebozoed him back up because when Dawn went to feel, she was like, I think that's like a nose or an ear, which neither one is what you want to be feeling when you're reaching up for a vaginal exam. And so we tried to scoot him back up, but once he was up, he wouldn't really come back down, right. And I was like, I don't know, do you want to go home and like come back? You've been here for days. I feel awful. And she was like, if you're thinking about sending me home, I think it's time to consider maybe a hospital transfer. and like I understood that that was why, but I also cried because I didn't want to. and I was still really proud of myself for making it to term. There's nothing wrong. It's not failing, right? Like, I didn't feel like I had failed to have a home birth simply because I was choosing at that point to transfer to give birth in a hospital instead. they were just going to give me a little nudge. which was some pitocin, which by the way, sucks, don't like, zero, zero stars. so that we could make sure that my labor would pick back up and we could have this baby in a timely manner. when we got there actually, they were like, so how long have you been at a seven? And I was like, 19 hours. And they were like, no, no, at a seven. And I was like, yeah, no, 19 hours. I've been in labor for the last, like, 37. And they were like, ew. I'm like, oh God. Oh, that's why you're here. Okay. Because I just, I was just sitting, I was sitting at a seven and, at that point, there had to be something done and we weren't comfortable really doing anything else at home, not knowing if he would be coming down in a favorable position or not. And yes, knowing that he was probably kind of large. and so he was born there in the hospital after some Pitocin, and he was eight pounds, eight ounces. And so I was like, Oh, I guess that's why.

Kiona: 44:43

That's a big difference. How did that feel for your body afterwards

Bri: 44:48

It was not worse. It felt the same. I honestly, I don't feel like it makes a huge difference. I don't know that, like, I felt like I had significant labor with my first. but I did absolutely labor, in a normal way with my second. And, I think it doesn't change based on the size of the baby. Which is something I try to use to reassure people because people are like, Oh my gosh, I hope my baby's like six pounds. And I'm like, it really doesn't make a difference.

Kiona: 45:12

I guess it just depends on how you view it because some people do have like super super jumbo babies, you know, like 10 pound babies and their labors are just the same as people that have like the 6 and 7 pound babies, but it's really dependent on your body and it's really dependent on your psychological preparation on what you can handle. what your birth preferences are, the changes and adjustments you're willing to make throughout your labor when you realize something that you really wanted isn't necessarily what you need at that time. So all of those things need to ebb and flow. So I think it just depends because some people really do get it in their head like, Oh my gosh, my baby's big. That's why my labor was so hard. and then sometimes it physically is depending on the person's. body. so I think it's really hard to make an umbrella or general statement saying that. but at the same time, I get it. Like, I get how that statement does make sense, but it's so unique to each individual, which is one of the reasons why I'm doing this podcast is because some people could have, like, a seven pound baby and they're like, Oh my God, it was the worst thing ever. You know? So it's just really, really interesting, and it, it depends on where you come into birth. What information and education you have prior to getting pregnant that guides you into what your pregnancy and labor look like with that baby of that time, you know?

Bri: 46:33

Absolutely. Yeah. So my next one was five years later and I came into that, with, I literally printed out and brought studies on, birth after cerclage. And I was like, Dawn, listen, I think we may have had a scar tissue issue on why I stopped dilating. So here's my study that I found on massaging the cervix to break up scar tissue in labor. So mind you, I'm like eight weeks pregnant. And I'm already like, we're gonna do this, we're gonna have this baby at home, like, I have planned, I have studies, we're gonna do this thing to make sure that this time I dilate all the way to 10 and we have this baby at home, where the heck I'd want to have this baby. and so obviously here, I have a fourth baby, and we do the same, it's the same idea. The previous cerclage had been successful, at this point, Dr. Jung has retired. So I have Dr. Baghdadi, who had caught my second baby, and I show up and I'm like, okay, I want to come in here. I want to get the cerclage. I want to have this baby at home. Let's go do this thing. And. He places a single McDonald this time because he felt like the double was kind of excessive. it held fine. We had literally no trouble and he's like, let's just go with the single. then we probably won't have to put you under to take it back out. cause they put me under to remove my cerclage too when I had it out, my third. Which we didn't respond well to, we ended up having our heart rates drop a little bit and Dr. Jung actually like was calling, my husband to be like, hey, so permission to c section if necessary and he was like, dude, she's going to be super mad. Don't pin that on me. He waited longer than he would normally wait. Like, they prepped and just waited to see if my heart rate would come back up and if the baby's heart rate would come back up. And it did. And so that's why we weren't, we weren't cut open there in the OR. I was like, dude, you are lucky because I would have woke up so pissed.

Kiona: 48:22

Yeah.

Bri: 48:23

So mad. But like he did wait. so anyway, we get to baby four. And go in and I have my cerclage placed at like 15 weeks, which is a little late for a cerclage. I'd had my previous one at 13. but you just get a little range, right? And, really uneventful pregnancy. I don't take it easy at all. I act completely normal. I raise my three kids. I do yard work. I build stacking rabbit cages. I milk goats and carry hay out to cows and whatever else. Like, I do normal stuff. And it's fine. And so we get to about 37 weeks. Have my cerclage removed in office this time. as Emily likes to say, Dr. Baghdadi was a bit of a cowboy. He's like, yeah, take a couple ibuprofen before you get here and we'll just take it out in the office. Sarah will hold the light. And a few days later, I go into labor, I lose my mucus plug at 1130 at night and I'm like, cool. I might have a baby soon, and I sleep through all of the latent phase. I wake up the next morning and I'm having more consistent contractions and I'm like, alright, might have a baby today, send my husband to work, like whatever, I'm home with three kids. picking up. My beautiful friend, Allison is like, Hey, do you want me to come over and make lunch? I've only got the baby today. The other kids are hanging out with my mother in law. I was like, that would be lovely. Please do come help make lunch for my kids. And so she comes over and like, make some lunch and like, I get in a bath and I called Dawn and I'm like, Hey, so it's not like they're not super consistent and close together yet, but I'm getting uncomfortable and like, it's just us hanging out at home. Like I'm here with the kids. Is there any way that you could just swing by? Like, you only live like 10 minutes from me. Could you swing by and check it out? and she's like, yeah, yeah, I can totally do that. before she gets there, I've gotten back out of the bath because it's July. It's 90 degrees. I have no air conditioning. I've declared this a warm, wet hell. and she gets there and It's only been like 30 minutes, but everything has sort of shifted and I'm clearly, in very active labor. My contractions are sort of like on top of each other and she's like, Oh, looks like I'm staying. I will call the birth assistant. and so sometime between noon where I was like, yeah, please come make lunch and four o'clock where I have the baby. Like this is like, that's where the bulk of this happened. And I think this is my favorite birth because it's just the middle of a nice warm summer day. My kids are hanging out, watching TV. They're just playing games, running about. Nobody's bothering me. I'm basically alone in my bedroom with Dawn. because the birth assistant shows up a few minutes before the baby does. And, my, this is my ex husband, so, my ex husband doesn't show up until I'm about to push. And so, like, he wasn't there. I'm like, it's just me and Dawn hanging out in my warm bedroom and for a couple hours and then I have a baby. And she did do the cervical, massage and ruptured my membranes at about nine centimeters. I had a lot of fluid with this baby, like a lot, a lot of fluid. And so, it just made it a little bit easier for him to come down and apply pressure to the cervix to melt the rest of that away so that we could just finish things up. and so yeah, my ex husband walks in, washes his hands, grabs a leg, and I push out a baby. And I was like, this, this is how I'd like to do that.

Kiona: 51:51

It's so different, it's so different than your first three births. And I think I would, like from the outside, this sounds like a very redemptive birth. Like it's such, the energy is different, the space, the actual location is different. Your perspective of it just being you and Dawn, your midwife. Sometimes that's really all you need, unless you're really emotionally attached to having a doula or your partner there. Some people would be concerned, like, my partner didn't make it in time. But you were like, I'm good. I'm just in the zone. I know the person that I need here is here, like, that actually should be here is here. I'm just gonna chill. I'm gonna do this. We're going to do this together, and we're going to be set. I think that's awesome.

Bri: 52:34

Yeah, that was my idea of perfect. And then my kids were able to come, like, they were brought downstairs after everything was kind of tidied up, and I'm sitting in bed, and I'm holding their new brother, and they can all come in there. And I think, like, my favorite, favorite memory, of my second child meeting my fourth child was just. He's looking at his little hands and feet and he's like, look at the tiny fingers. Look at his tiny toes. And he's just so in love

Kiona: 52:58

Oh, that sounds so sweet. Because at that time, your second child was like seven, maybe?

Bri: 53:08

So my older ones were five, seven, and nine.

Kiona: 53:11

How fun! So how did this experience alter your breastfeeding experience? Because at this time, you're like skin to skin right away. You know, at least I'm assuming, did you do skin to skin right away with this babe?

Bri: 53:27

Yeah. Yeah. And he was, you know, latched right there in the bed, like immediately after birth. it was. Just very different. And of course, it's nice and warm. So like, we're not worried about like, Oh, no, the hat and the whatever, like, you know, that none of that's happening. There's nobody fussing. There are no nurses who are trying to give aggressive stimulation or do anything insane, because that's what they were trained to do. It's just at this point, it's really just it's me and still me and Dawn, right? And then it's my older kids. And we're just able to lay there and, they're not interrupting when I'm latching their brother, they're still just touching him and, he's breastfeeding and he breastfed for three and a half years.

Kiona: 54:06

Nice. Yeah, my oldest breastfed for the same amount of time. And then my middle child and my youngest only breastfed for two, but hey, it is what it is, right? I think that having that bond breastfeeding with your fourth for three and a half years is, I don't know, I kind of feel like I just get this like redemptive energy with it.

Bri: 54:28

Yeah,

Kiona: 54:28

I really do

Bri: 54:30

yeah, it was really like the thing that was worked for. He was the, He was not a planned baby. Like, I wasn't planning to have a fourth child. I wanted to have a fourth child, but then after a couple years had passed, it felt like it was probably not going to really happen because I liked that two year gap, but I wasn't sure how I would like a larger gap. But everything about his pregnancy was, like, super easy and I was super comfortable and it was so different as far as experience goes. There was no pain. There was no pressure. There was just this easy pregnancy, this easy birth, the easy breastfeeding, and he breastfed forever and he's just a snuggler. and I was like, yep, that's probably it. I think I'm probably done.

Kiona: 55:13

but you do have two more.

Bri: 55:15

I do have two more. I do have two more. I ended up getting divorced and, then reuniting with my childhood boyfriend. and so that's my partner, and we do have two more together. So we, moved in together and, I think that vacation involves a lot of drinking from like the time you get up to the time you get down if you want it to. So, have a Vegas baby,

Kiona: 55:42

Nice.

Bri: 55:42

and I was like, Oh, we weren't really planning to have children together like we had wanted to when we were young. And it was kind of like, Oh, well, we're, you know, mid thirties. We have a lot of kids collectively. That ship has probably sailed and he has dealt with, neonatal loss trauma. And so we would not have necessarily planned to have another baby, and especially not with that timing and without having gone through any therapy ahead of time and making sure that that was something that could be carried well for him. I wouldn't have wanted to add additional trauma to that. especially knowing that even though I've been overwhelmingly successful as a person with cervical insufficiency. that does carry a risk. I am a high risk birthing person and so I wouldn't have been like, Hey, you know what you should do after loss? Have babies with me. that seems safe. But it was one of those things that I think was necessary and I think for him was also a redemptive thing. so we were a bit surprised, and if you've ever met Sally who does the ultrasounds, she is one of the best ultrasonographers I have ever seen in my life. And she was so good with my partner, as far as like constantly with the reassuring, and always making sure that everything she did was slow and visible and whatnot because his losses, was because of an abdominal wall defect. and so it was always reassuring for him to see like, Oh, look, our baby is normal. There is nothing wrong. Like, this is good. This is safe. and he never questioned me when I was like, I have babies at home, and like, this is what we're doing, and this is my midwife, and this is my home birth practice, and this baby will be born in our house, like, you'd think he could've, but he just kind of was like, she's doing her thing, I'm just here for the ride. And so he was really very supportive. He's the least argumentative person I've ever met when it comes to stepping into, Hey, my partner is a home birthy person. Because, you know, a lot of guys are like, well, what about the hospital? Doesn't that seem safe? Where is your NICU? I'm like, it's still over there. So again, we had to go through and get a cerclage. so we had Dr. Maynard, who, at this point had been my regular OB GYN too for quite some time, so he was not super surprised to see me. He's like, hey, seeing you again. But we had, that cerclage placed. He does it a little bit different. So he tucks the, the string towards the back, because it makes it less uncomfortable. If you're not on pelvic rest, you don't have protruding strings like you would if you just normally just place it kind of willy nilly. but it also makes it more difficult to get and remove at the end of pregnancy when all the tissues are soft and swollen and whatever else, so. It's also worth noting that never again did I vomit profusely with any child. so we get to the end of this pregnancy, which has been normal, good, et cetera. and he goes to remove this cerclage and it's very difficult. and afterwards I felt like so bruised. I was like, this is worse than my birth experiences. My vagina is in worse shape having this cerclage removed. Then it was having any of my previous babies. Like, what the heck is this? I was like, I'm done. I'm so done. I'm done. I'm never doing this again. nobody believes me anymore by the way. Like they, they were like, sure, Bri. Sure. Yes. Yeah. Five's it. So that's my fifth baby. my 36 week visit, my home visit. I had just felt him roll before they got here, like he had just rolled and it was very obvious and a very obvious settling into where he was. When they got here before we did Leopold's, I was like, you know, I'm pretty sure that he has just rolled to like OP and shoved his fist into my cervix. Like I can feel it. And so she's feeling, she's like, yeah, that seems right. This is only important because we never think about it again. But also he doesn't actually leave this position. And so a few days later, I'm just over 37 weeks, just long enough for the bruising of my vagina to subside. And, I've stayed up all night, like an enormous idiot, watching Space Force with my partner. so it's 2 o'clock in the morning and I feel a weird back pain. And I'm like, oh, oh, oh no, I have made a horrible mistake. And then my partner's like, what? I was like, I just realized that I haven't been having twinges like back pain. I've been inadvertently in early labor and all of those weird back pains I've been having are contractions I didn't recognize. And he's like, shut up. And I'm like, no, I'm so serious. And like 10 minutes later I had it again and I was like, yeah, no, that's a contraction. We have to go to bed. We have to go to bed right now. When your contractions are 10 minutes apart, it's not super easy to go ahead and get some sleep at this point. especially if you're sort of semi panicking about the fact that you should have been asleep hours ago and you feel very stupid because your midwife had texted you like 12 hours ago and was like, you can go into labor today if you want and you'd said, Oh, I don't really feel very labory. and so then by 6 AM, I'm clearly in labor, and I've called everyone in. And this is the first time I have a birth photographer, and we have Dawn and Emily And I'm having nothing but back labor, and I was like, this is stupid. This is stupid, and I hate this. it's the worst that I've, this is the worst thing I've ever done with my life. Like, what was I thinking? I've had no sleep. Like, none. None whatsoever. Because I stayed up watching something dumb on Netflix. I'm like, I'm exhausted. This hurts. This hurts more than any other labor I've ever had. Back labor is dumb and should not exist. And, I finally give in and like get in my bathtub, which is not where I really want it to be as much as my bathtub is beautiful and laboring in it is nice. I didn't really, I don't, I'm, I've never wanted to be a water birth person. I was like, it gives me, it gives me the ick, like, stuff and the stuff. Which I feel is irrational because like, other people giving birth in the water, I will get up in that, like, I will reach in there to do fetal heart tones, I will do whatever. But for some reason, like, I was like, ew, I'm not doing this thing. I'm wrong, by the way. Because finally, as we're reaching the end of labor, and the sun has come up, it's storming, by the way, this is, there's, we're having a terrible storm outside, there's lighting, it's dark, it's whatever. we're getting close to when I should feel, be feeling pushy and Dawn's like, do you want to get out of the tub now? And I was like, no, no, I don't want out of the tub. This is the only place where I don't feel like dying. I'm staying in the tub. it's just like, okay, well then I have to warm up the water because I hadn't let her warm up the water either. Like I won't let, I won't let anyone turn on the lights. I won't let anybody warm up the water. I just, I don't want to be touched. I don't want to be doing anything. I hate this. I think at this point. I have, like, absolutely said terrible things to my partner, who has been very wonderful, who did take a nap when he was told to do so, because they're like, she's gonna need you to be awake later, please go nap. So it's warmed. we get to the pushing phase. It's difficult because my tub's more narrow than you would expect it to be for how large it is. and I go to move to hands and knees and I get like halfway through that rotation. So like basically I'm squatting sideways in my bathtub and I throw up over the bathtub. and baby just, pops out. Just fist first, baby crown. And, Dawn has to hop onto the back of the tub to catch that posterior arm so he doesn't, you know, flail and tear everything open on his way out. And Emily has to reach over and grab my butt now to hold me up so that we don't drop baby into the water since I threw up. Outside of the tub. So now we're out. Baby's hit air. We can't go back in. and this photo, did hit the internet afterwards. so a lot of people have seen my butt. and they're like, Hey, like when I hired my next photographer, she was like, Hey, I've seen your butt. Like she realized after she saw my bathtub, I was like, yeah, that's me. But, um, so she holds me up and baby comes out like fist first and Dawn's like bent over trying to catch him from the back of my tub how I have my first semi water birth

Kiona: 1:03:48

Oh my gosh. I don't know if you'll agree with this, but as a birth worker, sometimes I jokingly tell my clients, especially when they're feeling bad for throwing up a lot, or if they throw up and they're like, Oh, it sucks. Like I hate it. Like that hurts so bad. You know, it just makes everything feel so much more intense. I tell my clients, you know what, just take it as like a little cheat code because your body is just doing all the things. It's letting all the things out. And I've had many people throw up causing their waters to rupture. And I have also had many people throw up and just do a large dilation because of that like ejection reflex from the body and just the contraption of contractions happening at that time. It's just like all, like, I don't even know how to explain it. Like all forces go

Bri: 1:04:41

Yeah, it's a lot. It's that it's that sort of like bearing down. So you're it's like pushing but not pushing and yeah So and I think that was it was it like it was the switch of position the open hips the squat, right? Like it was I wasn't intending to squat but I was in a squat and we don't were just that's how he came into the world.

Kiona: 1:05:01

Love it. Love it. Love it. So how old is he now?

Bri: 1:05:05

He is three and a half, he'll be four in May. So,

Kiona: 1:05:10

And then you made it to 37 weeks

Bri: 1:05:12

yes. Mm-Hmm? Yeah. So, yeah, another cerclage. So at this point, the longest I've been pregnant is 37 weeks, four days.

Kiona: 1:05:20

Nice. Okay. Cool, cool. And so how old is your fourth now?

Bri: 1:05:25

my fourth will be eight this summer.

Kiona: 1:05:27

Eight. Okay. Awesome. Cool. And then he was also, or she,

Bri: 1:05:32

He, my fourth is a boy. Yeah. He was, so he was, almost four when we had my fifth baby. And he was so very excited about it, like he was involved in all the appointments, he was always like, he wanted to listen to the baby, he was constantly asking me like how the baby would be born. He did once tell me that he thought he would climb back out of my mouth, which was definitely nightmare fuel, But he was also, he was really, really fascinated with the placenta. and so he would always talk about how the baby would get things through the placenta and the placenta. And so after we had the baby, we invited him in for the placenta tour and he got to see it and he was like, Oh, Oh God, that's not what I had in mind. So we have a wonderful picture of him seeing a placenta for the first time and just being clearly grossed out.

Kiona: 1:06:19

I love that though. I love that you just like kind of let him take the lead on how much he wanted to be involved. And that's really, really cool. So let's go ahead and dive into your sixth pregnancy and birth and all that good stuff. Well, actually, before we dive into that, how was your breastfeeding journey with your fifth child?

Bri: 1:06:40

good. That was another really easy one. He was an instant like latcher. He had none of that, you know, how some babies take a little while to kind of figure it out. No, he was like on and it was just on from then on.

Kiona: 1:06:50

Nice. And so did you nurse him for about

Bri: 1:06:53

Uh, two years. Yeah, two and a half. He, I actually, I only weaned him, when I was pregnant. I tend to lose my milk. And so then at that point, I'm just kind of nursing for comfort, dry nursing. and part of the way through, I was like, this feels like I am trying to breastfeed you shards of glass and I'm uncomfortable. We have to stop. So, so he had to be weaned. He was not super into it, but we bought him, one of those like fake silicone teething boobs, and so I gave him a different boob. I was like, this is your boob.

Kiona: 1:07:25

Cool. Did that make it easier?

Bri: 1:07:28

uh no. Hahaha

Kiona: 1:07:30

that's awesome. So let's go ahead and talk about your conception, pregnancy, and birth with your sixth.

Bri: 1:07:37

All right. So my sixth is, I think probably the most embarrassing way to get pregnant. which is simply while you are seriously in the middle of midwifery school, taking your fertility awareness method class, where you're getting a beautiful, like perfect A, and then to still get accidentally pregnant. And it's funny because I was doing my own chart at the time for funsies, like as part, like because it was the last, for the last couple weeks of class to like do your own chart and then point out stuff. And so like when I sent my chart in, I sent it in with the note to Aisha. I was like, Hey, look at this weird part of my chart where like everything is off. I think it, like it was, I think it was stress because I was about to do skills assessments to switch from one phase to the next. And I was like, everything is all like wonky because of the skills assessment stress. And I'm like, but you can't even really hardly tell like which, where the fertile phase is because this chart is really stupid looking basically was my note. So like a couple of weeks later when I found out I was pregnant, I like sent a new message and I was like, just kidding. I figured it out.

Kiona: 1:08:40

I think that's hilarious because it's just like, it should be obvious and then you're like, no, no, no. It's totally stressed. Cause there's so much going on in your life, like as is, and then you're like, well, here we go again.

Bri: 1:08:55

Yeah. I did have mild morning sickness with this one which is funny because I had like none, I had no morning sickness at all with my boys. And so to roll into the next pregnancy with a girl and to be sick again, I was like, Oh, please just let it be this though. Just let it be what it is and not horrible again. And it wasn't, it was just regular, good old fashioned morning sickness, subsided part of the way through. I was like, okay, okay. I can take 18 weeks of mild sickness versus. 27 straight weeks of vomiting my brains out. It was a much harder pregnancy. I think part of it is age. Part of it is that I was parenting five other children already. Part of it is that I was in school, which is like a first for me. I had been doing nothing. I've been a stay at home mom all up until I entered, midwifery school. And so it was very, very different for me to be going out there and doing births, being staying up for 24 hours at a time sometimes, and have a lot of other stuff on my plate. also, you know, this is now post COVID and we're seeing some correlation with iron deficiency anemia, after COVID infections, right? And so I was wildly anemic. This first time I had to have, iron infusions. so I had to have twice weekly iron infusions at the end of my pregnancy so that I could get my, Yeah, so that I could get my numbers up high enough to not risk out of home birth. Like, they're like, hey, we would love it if you didn't bleed to death after you had this baby. And I'm like, yeah, I'm super on board for not dying. but yeah, it was hard and it was exhausting. and, so we get my cerclage placed at, 13 weeks this time, I think, 13 or 14. We took, we had some trouble getting it scheduled where they're like, we're going to do it. And I'm like, really? Are we? When are you putting it on the calendar? Yeah. but we got in there, we got that scheduled. I assumed this was going to be another boy because I'd had several boys in a row. And so, like, when I go to my cerclage post op appointment, just make sure everything looks good, now that the cerclage is in place, etc. And I tell my partner before I leave for the house, I said, I'm just going to confirm it's a boy real quick, you know, while I'm there, and then I'll let you know when I get home. and so I referred to the baby as he, during the ultrasound, and Sally was like, Do you know? I was like, no, but I just assume, probably a boy. She's like, I'm going to take a look. And so you sort of hands up on the screen to sort of highlight what is clearly a vagina. And you're like, Oh, okay. All right, then. That is not a boy, baby.

Kiona: 1:11:28

Ha ha ha ha.

Bri: 1:11:30

I got to bring that news home to a bunch of very, very excited family members who, when I had my last boy, told me, that's great, but it would have been cooler if it was a sister.

Kiona: 1:11:41

Ah ha ha ha.

Bri: 1:11:43

So this time we got the very cool sister. but my cerclage removal this time was, um, I told Dr. Maynard, I was like, just take this one out in office. We can do it. It's fine. I'll take some ibuprofen and we'll get this thing out. we did not, like he went to try and I took like a sharp in drawn breath at some point while he was doing this thing. And he was like, am I hurting you? And I was like, uncomfortable? And he was like, Okay, I'm done then. I'm not going to hurt you just because you are willing to let me do it. I will call them. They will find space for you. I will see you at the hospital tomorrow and you will do this with drugs. And so we had it removed in the hospital like the next day with fentanyl. And the DNC kit so that he could actually reach far enough in there, well enough to get to where that knot was at the back of the cervix, like that's why I mentioned that earlier, because it was just, it was too difficult to do it in the office. so yeah, so we did, we went to the hospital, got fentanyl on board, used the DNC kit and got that out much quicker there and much less painful. and then I had contractions for like the whole next week, like after that had been sort of irritating. and so I was just kind of waiting it out, trying to get, this was at 36 and something. And so like, we're waiting to try and reach 37 weeks, obviously because we need to, we want to have this baby at home. And I think Emily was a little bit nervous about it. cause it didn't seem like we were probably gonna make it if I'm contracting and what have you. But I'm like, yeah, but it's not like exciting contractions. They're not getting any closer. They're not getting any stronger. They just kind of exist. Like they're just there and they're there like all the time. So whatever. she actually double booked my 37 week appointment. Because she assumed I wouldn't make it. I kind of showed up and she's like, I have to text the other. I didn't think you'd be here. Like, I honestly thought we would not have this appointment.

Kiona: 1:13:47

That's funny.

Bri: 1:13:49

Yeah. So, I took a photo outside and was like, Woohoo! 37 week appointment! Were trying to make it to, that, 37 week mark so that we could have this baby at home, and it seems like my distance from cerclage removal to labor and birth had been shortening, each baby. So I was like, oh, this feels risky, But that Wednesday morning, I was sitting in my class and it's almost over. So it's like 9. 30 and, my water breaks and I'm like, Oh, okay. I haven't had my water break as like the first thing that happens in labor since my first one, like they, it's always in labor and it's sometimes, you know, with assistance. Generally, it's not my onset of labor, and, so I was like, okay, cool, guess we'll just wait for contractions to pick up, or what have you. So like, I texted, Dawn and Emily and Anne in our group chat. And I was like, Hey guys, my water broke, but I haven't started like having contractions or anything like everything else is exactly the same. So I'm, I'll call you like when it's important, like when things pick up but my fifth he goes down to my mom's on Wednesdays to hang out so that I can do school. And my partner's like, should I still take him down? I was like, yeah, I don't see why not. Just take him down there. you know, the other ones are at school still today. It's fine. What, you know, we'll just kind of play it by ear. and so he takes him down there. And like, and his mom's here for a visit, we had her fly in to hang out with us so that she could be here for the birth of the baby, and she'd just gotten there a couple days earlier, and I'm like, your mom's here, she can hang out with me, like, whatever, and, he's still gone at this point, and I start to feel like, what feels like my Pelvis is being like pried open and I'm like, this is a really decidedly awful feeling and it doesn't seem to be connected with anything else. I know that baby's LOA at this point because she hasn't really moved since Anne poked at her the day before and told me, yeah, your baby's in a wonderful position. This is great. And so I'm like, so it's not like. Something that I'm like, Oh, I should change positions and we'll relieve this pressure and so I call her and I'm just like, please, troubleshoot this with me. Why does it feel like somebody is trying to break open my hips? And she's like, well, you're not having any, contractions or anything? And I was like, no! It's the same as it was the whole time, where I've been having them. But you can hear me. I'm literally talking to you through this. These don't feel like contractions, contractions, maybe it's Braxton Hicks contractions. Like, I understand that at this point, my water's broken, so we can consider this labor, but it's not anything to write home about, but this hip pain is disgusting, and I don't get it. And then while we're on the phone, a contraction hits and it's like serious and it's intense and I'm like, Oh, there's that. It doesn't explain the hip pain for me still, but like, that's a contraction. That's like a real contraction. And during the duration of this phone call, I have a second one. And we were on the phone maybe 10 minutes back. So like, I have another one of those contractions and she's like, Hey, Bri, it, it, it sounds like you're in transition. Like you went from, I don't think I'm in labor to like, this sounds like transition. She's like, I'm already texting Emily and putting my gravy in the fridge. And we are going to be there like as soon as we possibly can, I promise. so I'm going to hang up on you now because I have to get, I have to get there. And I'm like, okay, that seems fine. At this point, like every time I have a contraction, I'm starting to like leak fluid. And I was like, okay, I think I might have to admit that like I'm in labor at like labor, labor, like suddenly very much in labor out of nowhere and I'm glad that I texted for the birth tub this morning, like as soon as my water broke, I was going to borrow one from Jenny at prepare the nest. who's a friend of mine, she was gonna bring it down and she asked me when I texted her, she's like, should I bring it down now so that we don't, we're not doing this in traffic patterns or do you want me to wait till you're in active labor? And I was like, oh, you might as well bring it down now. So everybody arrives at about the same time, like 30 minutes later. The photographer who told me that she picked up her kids under her arms and like ran across the park to like shove them back into her van, like, I gotta go, I gotta go. And Dawn, Emily, and Anne show up, without the, Laptop they would generally use for charting. Apparently, they ran out of the door without it. So at this point now, they have to borrow paper and pen and just write things down, to enter in after the fact. And, I'm laying in bed, completely undressed, because labor has progressed into this fashion where I'm just, I am, I feel like, A freight train is trying to power its way out of my pelvic region and, I was like, I was not in labor like an hour ago and I don't understand that like I do, but I don't. And so it's like in this moment, like while I'm waiting for them in that like half hour, I thought to myself, Oh, so this is why when you see those, like, I didn't know I was pregnant births, they're like, I thought I was dying because if I had never heard of precipitous birth, like if I didn't know what was happening, I would absolutely have thought I was dying. This is the worst band I've ever felt in my life. What the hell? it was like if I didn't know that my midwives were like on the way, if I had been in a strange situation, if I didn't have a plan, I was like this is one of those things where if I had tried to go to the hospital, I would have been like, well, I'm afraid A, I won't make it there. But B. You Can I call my doctor to, like, meet me downstairs so that we know that he'll be there? Because there's no way you can call them in after your arrival with the way that this felt. but they got there and, Anne was like, Hey, do you mind if I check you? And I was like, no, go for it, right? And so she checks me and she's like, you are nine centimeters, but I can feel buldging bag of waters. And, she's like, even though you had your water had broke earlier, she's like, that must have been like a high leak. And now baby's like head is down there or something pushing that forward. And I'm like that. Yeah, that's true. That makes sense. Dawn checked to confirm too, and was like, yeah. So Jenny, we don't think you can put the The, the pool up, like the aqua doula, it's huge. It's going to take more time to get that set up than it is going to take us to have this baby. And I was only renting it to be nice to Dawn because she had to stand on the back of my bathtub last time. And so she was like, do you want me to run your bath? And I was like, yes, please. I'm so sorry. I tried. so we ran the bath and I got in there and labored for a little bit. But, water broke the rest of the way, questionably there may or may not have been some meconium, um, Emily and I thought we saw it, but by the time Don had looked, it may have dissipated into the water, so we're not, like, may or may not be. and I was like, you know, the water helps the pain, but I really feel like I want out. But also at this point, I can't imagine how you guys would get me back out of this tub. Like there's no way for me to get out. And they were like, just kind of nodding at me and I'm like, cause like at this point I'm just saying things, because I don't expect them to know how to drag me out of this tub. Like they'd all have to like lift me out. It's not happening. I'm staying in the tub at this point. but I wanted to complain about it. and so I'm like, I don't feel the urge to push. And that's all I communicated to them was like, I don't feel the urge to push. What I meant by that was something feels off. So I am going to push because I know that I should be feeling pushy right now. And I'm just not feeling that. Like I know that I should be feeling it. I know where I am in labor and I'm not feeling this urge, even though I should have, you know, baby's head should be triggering that fetal ejection reflex for me. And it's not happening. and so I just roll over, having not communicated this thing that I thought I communicated. and go to start pushing. and we get the top of baby's head. Like, she starts to crown. Anne is providing some, like, perineal support. And she's like, oh, there we go. We see baby's head. And so she's like, alright, brow. And I push some more. And Emily's like, nose? Anne says, brow? And we push some more. And she's like, and Emily's optimistically, chin? She's like, no, brow! And, at that point I think we're all aware, painfully, of what's happening here, and they were, I guess, prepared for it. They had a chat in the car on the way over, like, hey, this is not nor Bri's normal birth pace. if baby is stuck, what's our plan, since we were letting Anne take lead. I had asked her if she wanted to catch the baby, even though she wasn't in primaries yet. they were like, we'll swap out, Dawn will step in, and, do whatever she's gotta do to get the baby out. And so we're pushing, we finally get baby's head out and Anne says, no nuchal cord, steps out of the way and Dawn's reaching in. the baby made no attempt at restitution and she's just fricking purple in face. And at this point, the photographers kind of put their cameras down, step out of the way, so, which is unfortunate because I really would have loved to have had this on film and or camera, but I understand why it's not. so they step out of the way to just allow things to happen and Dawn has to free, not one, but both shoulders of this baby. So she gets in there and she reaches and she gets one shoulder out and she has to push her up. To free the other shoulder and Emily is offering suprapubic pressure at the same time. and then after the shoulders are free, she's still stuck. I can't push her out. By the way, I'm still in the tub.

Kiona: 1:23:35

I was going to say, are you still in the water

Bri: 1:23:36

I'm still in the water. And so my partner is holding me still. So I'm not floating away while they're trying to like pull this baby out of my body. I have no foothold, because when I'd been trying to push previously, Dawn was holding my feet for me because I can't reach the bottom of my tub. It's a large tub and I am not a large woman. And, so she then still has to, she has to pull the baby the rest of the way out. I can't push her out even with her shoulders free because her belly is weirdly wide. I'm like, that's not something we've seen before, but fun. Thanks for that, kid. so she pulls out and places on my chest a floppy gray baby. And, I'm relieved at this point that she's not still stuck in my pelvis and, after a couple of inflating breasts with the bag from Emily, she pinks up and starts to cry and it's over. It's better. I don't hemorrhage, which is apparently like luck of the draw after a birth like that. And with, the Low iron I'd had at the entire end of my pregnancy, so I'm, you know, pretty stoked about how that went, but she, does have a tongue tie, so breastfeeding was not our easiest. and she did actually end up in the NICU a week later for severe jaundice. So she had, a very sudden, very aggressive case of hyperbilirubinemia. She had numbers that were well beyond the transfusion threshold. and spent a week in the NICU, which I think was a blessing for our breastfeeding journey because it meant that I had to pump, which gave my breast time to rest because of her really poor latch was causing me a lot, a lot of discomfort on my left side. but I had like a break and was able to get her back onto the breast and she compensates for that. We didn't do the frenectomy. should we just kind of let her do her own thing? And it's kind of balanced out and, she is a very booby baby. it turns out she has a gene mutation that, probably contributed to the jaundice. But we went to our one week postpartum with Emily and she was like, that is one orange baby. so she drew her levels there, and when she went to take them to the labs herself, they were like, these are the wrong tubes. We can't run those. And so she was like, Bri, will you please, please, please do me a favor and go to the hospital because I don't want you going to sleep with a baby that yellow and without knowing that it's okay. So we drove just before the snow really hit. Like it's, it, this is when it snowed last year. so we drove out. It's snowing. We get there. The hospital's full of children with RSV. Um, and so they have us, they tuck us into a back room, to try and keep her safe. They don't draw her blood for five hours because they're, they're so busy. And when they finally do, they come back in and they're like, Hey, her numbers. I was like, I looked, I saw them on the chart. 31. 5. And they were like, yeah. So have you heard of kernicterus? And I was like, yes, but I deliberately didn't tell my partner. So you might want to walk him through it. Because I didn't want to scare him, like, this is where he lost his son, and this is where we're sitting here waiting for them to, like, tell us whether or not our baby will be okay. And they're like, yeah, we're going to transfer you to the NICU, and we need you to sign this form for exchange transfusion just in case the phototherapy doesn't work. and so it was like, super duper scary, but I texted Emily immediately and was like, hey, thanks for being scared, because you just saved my baby's life.

Kiona: 1:27:00

Mm.

Bri: 1:27:01

Twice. Like, this is, this is twice in a, twice in a week. Twice in a week they saved this baby's life. Like, I can't imagine, having any other birth team. I can't imagine trying to have that birth that I had, in a hospital setting. I can't imagine having people who weren't the people I had with me.

Kiona: 1:27:20

Oh, gosh. I have goosebumps all over because that, it's just, there's so much that took place in that small amount of time. And as soon as you told me that she was placed onto your chest like grayish blue I automatically thought of your partner because of his loss and so I'm thinking what is he thinking in this moment? Is he traumatized by the visual of this? Is he freaking out? You're a little bit more educated on what's going on so you're kind of like keeping it together and he's on the outside watching all of this happen and so I'm so curious as to how he processed that

Bri: 1:27:57

yeah, like afterwards when Emily was like, I'm so sorry you knew it was happening. I was like, no, I'm really glad that I knew it was happening. but she was like, my partner's name is Bryant, and she was like, Bryant did a great job. And he did. I asked him about it later because I was like, oh, you like, he literally held my, held me still so they could pull this baby out. And, I was like, you were like, literally my rock, like, how did you do this? And he's like, well, you know, this is, we chose this team, well, you chose this team. He's like, but we trust these people because you trust these people. He's like, and me freaking out. Isn't going to change anything. I can't do anything in that moment except what I am doing and trust them to do what they are doing and to do their job. And if they bring us a live baby because they do everything right. And we get a live baby, that's fantastic. But they're going to be doing everything you want them to be doing. They're going to do everything right, no matter what. And if we don't end up with a live baby, it's not because they did anything wrong and it's not because I didn't do anything.

Kiona: 1:28:50

Hmm. That's deep. That is very deep.

Bri: 1:28:55

So he just trusted that the situation was going to be what the situation was. And all he could do was do what he was supposed to be doing for me in that moment.

Kiona: 1:29:03

Hmm. Good on him though. Good on him on holding, holding that for you and holding that space for him as well because I imagine that if he did end up kind of freaking out or getting scared, it could have led to a different view of the birth and become more traumatic because of letting those emotions come to the surface at that point. And because he did what he did, you guys had the outcome that you did, so, strong, strong partner you have there.

Bri: 1:29:33

And all my kids were in the living room. I guess when I texted them that my water broke, they got rides home from school. so they were all in the living room. So when they had the baby, I was like, Oh, I didn't even know you guys were here. They're like, Yeah, we came in. so they got to all come and meet the baby, and they got to see her, you know, I mean, a bit purple from the bruising, but mostly pink, and so they weren't, they, they hadn't interrupted, so they didn't, they missed all the scary part and just kind of got to come in and meet their baby, and my favorite photo of My oldest daughter ever is her holding her baby sister for the first time and she's just like crying and I'm like, okay, totally worth it. I'm so glad that like, not just for me, but I'm so glad for them that this birth had the outcome that it did. I know that we lose babies to shoulder dystocia. It happens. But, you know, I'm so, so glad that that wasn't our reality because I don't, I don't know how they would have gotten over that.

Kiona: 1:30:21

Yeah.

Bri: 1:30:22

They would have, obviously like to some degree..kids are so resilient.

Kiona: 1:30:28

Yeah. Goodness. Did the midwife have to break any clavicles to get her out?

Bri: 1:30:33

No, absolutely intact clavicles. I had the most minimal, teeny tiny, like, almost tear that wasn't even a tear. And, like, that was it.

Kiona: 1:30:46

Wow. And how much did she weigh?

Bri: 1:30:48

nine pounds, four ounces, making her my second largest baby.

Kiona: 1:30:52

She's your second largest. What, who's your first largest?

Bri: 1:30:55

I fit, like, he's nine pounds, six ounces.

Kiona: 1:30:57

Oh, got it. Okay, we didn't touch on his weight. So, yeah. Goodness.

Bri: 1:31:02

Smallest is two pounds, six ounces. Largest was nine pounds, six ounces.

Kiona: 1:31:07

the ounces. line up perfectly. So yeah, that's, that is a big range. And I am just so, so grateful and thankful that you shared your stories with me because they're so different. Each and every single one of them is so different. And yes, there are similarities between, because you are the same human who has birthed these children, but they are so different. Your experience with your first and your last experience, there were similarities, which was kind of cool, like how you just happen to have morning sickness again with your last one and, they're both girls and it's kind of like they were closing the circle, you know, solidifying and closing that circle. So I really love that. I do just have a few final closing questions for you and then we can wrap it up. My first question is, What is one piece of advice that you would give to all pregnant people to prepare for labor and birth?

Bri: 1:32:03

I like for people to educate themselves on as many of the variations of possibilities as they can. it's really great to have like an ideal version of birth, but obviously that's not something that we can make happen. And so it's really great to kind of come up with all the different ways that you could see this going that you could be open and being open to that without being like, Oh, well, I'm just gonna, you know, like, it's not giving up its, but you to the ability to suffer, surrender to each of those variations and birth. and so it's the, you know, what does this look like for me if I have a C section? What does this look like for me if I'm having a hospital birth? What does this look like for me if I am having my home birth? so that way it's not, it's never one of those things that's like a shockingly huge surprise because you understand what you were expecting. And that does, if you can handle it, absolutely that does include the complications. if that's something that you don't have the mental space for, obviously, please don't introduce fear into your life. It sucks to know that something could go wrong and then worry about it. but after having experienced that last thing, I, again, as much as she apologized that I knew what was happening, I personally am very glad that I knew what was happening. I think that, level of pain without understanding would be harder. but again, I also understand that with my first, that ignorance is bliss thing was real. So, whichever one is working for you, please lean into that one.

Kiona: 1:33:22

Yeah, I love that advice. And I also love that you had both sides of the spectrum, like both complete sides of the spectrum of knowing a ton of information and knowing what was going on and then not knowing much information and not knowing what was going on and then just having them both follow their own trajectory to get to where you are. So I think that's awesome. My second question that I have for you is, what is one resource that I can share with the listeners on your behalf?

Bri: 1:33:46

I am a researcher. I don't do it in like a, I'm going to write papers and I'm super academic sort of way. But I'm one of those people who loves to read all of the information I can get on things. Obviously, you saw that when I was talking about bringing a study with me to my initial appointment for my fourth baby. so I'm really, really big on evidence based birth. I'm recommending that website to people constantly because it just has so much in one spot so that you can kind of get that unbiased information. It's maybe not as much fun of a read as it is to read something like Spiritual Midwifery, which has that sort of feel of stories and that like homey warmth. So it just kind of depends, but I'm a really big fan of the evidence based birth.

Kiona: 1:34:28

Yeah, I also love evidence based birth and I think that it's a great resource for both people that are working in the field as well as people that are just birthing, you know, like being interested in pregnancy at all or are pregnant themselves. I feel like it can really fit the wide spectrum of needs. So I love that resource. Thank you for sharing that. And my final question to you is, if you could describe your birth with one word, what would it be?

Bri: 1:34:55

Intense We oftentimes feel like intense means bad, but we also think of intense as being something that could be good, right? Like, there's a, there's a level of, intensity that comes with being passionate about things. and so I feel like every single birth had intensity. There was intensity in healing. There was intensity in, the things that went well. And there was intensity in the things that, maybe went less well.

Kiona: 1:35:20

I love that word because I also use the word intense a lot, especially when it comes to, labor and birth because instead of being like, oh my gosh like this is so painful, it could be like, this feeling is so intense. And it really changes your perspective on how you look at that because I feel like the word pain is associated with negativity and when you use the word intense, its more of like realizing one the power that you body has instead of it being painful in a way thats unbearable

Bri: 1:35:52

Yeah. No, absolutely. I get it because I've brought that in even before I had my sixth when I was like, yeah, no, I'm super duper done. I would be watching people give birth. I'm like, Oh, you're so powerful. And I wish I was going to do this again. And like, what is wrong with you? And I was like, no, shut it. You don't understand. I love this, and I love this for you. I understand that yes, it hurts, but there's something that's so different about hurt that is, with purpose.

Kiona: 1:36:16

Yeah. I agree 100%. Uh, Bri, thank you so much for sharing all of your stories with me, and I'm super excited and honored that you felt comfortable and willing to share them on this platform with me. I am sure many of my listeners, if not all of them, have learned something from your stories. And, hey, you're going to be a midwife one day, and you are local to me and so I'm excited to like, give you a high five one day and physically see you and to just talk all birthy things. So thank you so much for being on the podcast and I am so appreciative.

Bri: 1:36:54

Thanks for having me.

Kiona: 1:36:56

Yeah, of course, of course. If you've made it this far, that means that you also enjoyed Bri's stories. And I just wanted to say thank you for sticking around because the audio was a little bit different and I really tried my best to make it clear. And I really wanted to continue to share it because her story deserves to be heard. I learned so much from Bri during this interview and she was using all of the big words. So if you are curious as to any of the terminology that she was using, go ahead and head over to kionanessenbaum.com and go to her episodes page and you will see all of the definitions for the terminology she used. You will also get to see the amazing photos that she shared with me. One of the photos is that one, she talked about where her son sees the placenta and it is absolutely amazing. His facial expression is priceless. Bri. I want to say thank you so much for coming on the podcast. I apologize about the audio, not being as clear as we had hoped, but I'm happy to get your stories out there and I'm looking forward to you being another midwife in the community. And as for you listeners, don't forget to share this episode with a friend because there is so much information filled in this episode. And I guarantee you, whoever you share it with will learn something new. And if you're not already follow me on Instagram@birthasweknowitpodcast. And if you want to share your birth story or experience on the podcast, head over to kionanessenbaum.com and fill out the guest request form. Now for next week's episode, we get a special treat. I got to interview Rachelle Samia and Rachelle talks about her unique condition called uterus didelphys and that means she has two uteri. And we go into detail about what the condition actually is and how it impacted her life such as when she found out about it and how it impacted conception and pregnancy. And she also shares her two very different birth experiences. One of which includes a precipitous footling breech birth. So you're definitely going to want to tune in and it's going to be a wild ride. So I look forward to talking to you all next week. All right, bye. For now.