53- Angela Hodge-Miscarriage Vaginal Births-Angela Hodge Birth Services

In this episode, Angela talks about what it was like for her to experience her miscarriage and how that impacted her excitement for her future pregnancies. Including the emotions she carried with her as she found out she was unexpectedly pregnant with her third child. She also touches on what it was like to be cared for by out-of-hospital midwives while being considered Advanced Maternal Age. 

Disclaimer: This podcast is intended for educational purposes only with no intention of giving or replacing any medical advice. I, Kiona Nessenbaum, am not a licensed medical professional. All advice that is given on the podcast is from the personal experience of the storytellers. All medical or health-related questions should be directed to your licensed provider. 

Resources:

• Evidence Based Birth: https://evidencebasedbirth.com/
• The Business of Being Born Film
• Parent Trust Classes: https://www.parenttrust.org/for-families/classes/ 

Definitions:

• Pregnancy at Age 35 or Older/Advanced Maternal Age (AMA)
• Dilation and Curettage (D&C)
• Chemical Pregnancy
• Amniocentesis
• Artificial Rupture of Membranes (AROM) 
• Membrane /Cervical Sweep
• TENS Unit
• Colic

Transcript

Kiona: 0:08

Hello, and welcome to Birth As We Know It. I am your podcast host, Kiona Nessenbaum. I have experienced birth as a doula, a student midwife, and as a mother of three amazing children with my husband and high school sweetheart by my side. After attending over 130 births, including my own, I've realized that each birth experience is truly unique. So make sure you subscribe and join me every week as we are guided through many different birth experiences through the lens of the storyteller. Please be aware that some of the stories can be triggering to hear, so feel free to pause, take a breath, and come back and listen whenever you're ready. With that said, let's prep ourselves to dive deep and get detailed about what really happens in the birth space. As a reminder, this podcast is intended for educational purposes only, and has no intention of giving or replacing any medical advice. All advice that is given on the podcast is from the personal experiences of the storytellers. All medical or health related questions should be directed to your licensed provider. Before we dive into today's episode. I want to ask that you stick around until the very end. I'm going to be making a very important announcement on some of the changes that are going to be happening with the podcast as we move into our second year of production. I also want to share a review with you. We haven't shared a review in a while, but I want to share one because it's our most recent review. On November 22nd, 2023, we have a review titled"Love This Podcast" and it's rated five stars. It was written by sound babies. It says I listened to so many birth podcasts, and this is by far my favorite and not just because the host is super sweet and most of the guests are local to my area, but that definitely helps. I highly recommend both pregnant folks and birth workers. Give it a try." Thank you so much sound babies. I truly appreciate your review. And I'm so happy that you're enjoying it. All right. Let's dive into the episode. Hello, everybody, and welcome back to the Birth As We Know It podcast. Today, I am excited to be talking to Angela Hodge, who is a mother of three, and she is also the owner of Angela Hodge Birth Services, where she offers birth doula support, childbirth education, as well as birth photography to her clients. So welcome, Angela. Thanks for coming on today.

Angela: 2:44

Hi. Thank you. Thanks for the opportunity.

Kiona: 2:47

Yeah, I'm super excited to dive into your birth stories. You have three awesome ones. I just got a really brief description in the guest request form, but, let's go ahead and start off with you telling us a little bit about yourself and who's in your family.

Angela: 3:00

Sure. Yeah. So I am married to my husband, and we have three kids. So we have a girl who's six and then two boys who are nine and 11. and we're looking for a dog sometimes soon here we had two cats and they lived a long time and now, They, yeah, we're ready to get a dog, so,

Kiona: 3:27

Nice. Nice. Do you have any specific breed you're looking for?

Angela: 3:31

probably just a mutt from the Humane Society. Yeah, something friendly and fluffy.

Kiona: 3:39

Awesome, awesome. That sounds good. Let's go ahead and talk about, the first time that you were thinking about conceiving and preparing for a family.

Angela: 3:48

Yeah. So my husband and I were living in Boston at the time. We were both, in our thirties and kind of thinking about maybe it's time to settle down and have a child, and we did have some good friends who had a baby, and I would say, that was kind of inspiring, you know, we didn't really have a lot of friends with children, actually, so, we got to spend some time with them and their new baby, and I remember, we came home from that visit, and my husband was like hmmm, maybe its like maybe we should start talking about it. So I was considered like advanced maternal age, so we weren't really sure, how things would go and I really didn't know anything about, the birth process or about children. I mean, I knew a little bit about children, but yeah, it just wasn't like a big part of our world at that time. So we decided to go ahead and start trying. I think it took us only like a few months to get pregnant. and Unfortunately, that pregnancy did end in a missed miscarriage, which was, pretty devastating at the time. I went in for an early ultrasound for dating and it was actually frustrating because the ultrasound technician was a bit cold and, we saw the ultrasound and she immediately was like, Oh, I think there's an issue. I think we're going to have to monitor this pregnancy. and then she said, Oh, but look, there's the heartbeat. Look at the heartbeat, right after telling us that there was probably a problem. It looked like the dates weren't really lining up. So that was a bit confusing. And, I was seeing an OBGYN at the time, so I talked to her. She said, we could, come back for blood tests or like for another ultrasound the following week, but we were going on vacation. So we had to wait two weeks to come back for another ultrasound and try to figure out what was going on. and so that was just, it was kind of a strange, just a strange time. and then when we did go back for the second ultrasound, there was a much kinder technician, fortunately. but yeah, there was no longer a heartbeat. So that was pretty sad. Then they gave us the option of, either letting it pass naturally or taking medication or, having a D&C. And I had had a couple of friends who had had miscarriages. one of them had to go in and I think she had tried the medication, but then still had to go in, for a D&C after that. And so both of my friends were like, you know, like, they weren't like, you know, telling me what to do, but I just felt in talking to them that a D&C was the best option for us at that time. I definitely didn't want to wait around. And it just felt too sad and weird, to just be like, it could be a month before, my body decides to let go of this pregnancy. and because I'd heard some stories about the medication not doing the best job, you know, I was like, I'll just do the D&C. and so that, Surgery went really smoothly and the doctor I actually, I really loved her. I remember her saying to me right before, just looking at me in the eyes and saying everybody has one. And I feel like I've told that to some people and they feel like that was cold, but to me it felt very validating and it's just you know, like you're not alone, it can be part of this process. and so yeah, and everything went smoothly. I took a couple of days off work. Uh, but I would say that was a bit surreal because like I didn't even bleed. there was no, it just felt very intangible to me. so I almost wish that I had not chosen the D&C because it just, it felt like. Oh, well, that like didn't even happen, kind of, and then I just was back at work, like life goes on. I didn't have local friends who had had that experience. I didn't really feel like I could talk to anybody. And then because of my age, I definitely felt like, Oh, is there something wrong with me? I think whenever you have that experience, and then you get pregnant after that, it does kind of Take away some of that naivete, of Oh, everything's gonna just be great. And, it kind of felt like there was a little bit of a black cloud following, the next time we did, well, with our successful pregnancy. so, yeah, so that happened. And then. So we decided to take, I don't know, I think we took just like a few months off and then decided to try again. I think I may have had a chemical pregnancy that next time because I, did get a positive pregnancy test. And then, the next day I started my period. and so that was, again, just kind of, I don't know, just kind of weird. I just felt kind of weird about it, and just, concerned. my doctor said, well, you got pregnant once, you can get pregnant. That's a good sign, we did get pregnant with a successful pregnancy after that. It didn't take us too long, which I was just really grateful for, I think at that time, now that I am a doula and I'm older, I've heard so many stories of people's hardships, with fertility, I do feel like very grateful that we were able, even despite the miscarriage or two miscarriages, I don't know, that we were able to conceived naturally, and things went pretty smoothly after that. we got pregnant with our first child. It was exciting, and also a little like, I hope this sticks, I hope it works out. But everything was pretty smooth with him. I had some nausea in the beginning, but I don't think I ever, threw up. I felt okay, as time went on, it was hard to sleep, just get comfortable. but I feel like it was a fairly easy pregnancy. and kind of the big thing is that At around six months, we ended up moving to Seattle. so I had lived here previously and then gone to Boston, and then met my husband there. So I convinced him to come back to the Puget Sound area. and so we did that. And so that meant that, we had to find new providers here, so we ended up choosing, a midwife team that did the centering pregnancy, where you meet in a group and that was in a hospital, and it's funny because as time went on, I had a few appointments and meetings with them and everything was fine. but I couldn't really put my finger on why, but it just didn't feel quite right. And I really liked the centering pregnancy idea, but I didn't really like the meetings. We would have them in a room and then everybody would have their appointment behind a curtain, kind of in the corner of the room. And it just, it felt a little too, Like public for me. I don't know and I didn't feel a great connection with the other parents at that time so I Yeah, so I you know, I was just thinking about it. I did have my oldest friend who was living in Oregon at the time and she had had a home birth. she had told me like, you should watch the business of being born and you should have a home birth and get a doula and all this stuff. and so it did get me just thinking about different options and thinking about the kind of birth I wanted. And so I decided to just go interview out of hospital midwives just, to see, and immediately,I talked to a midwife, that was part of a group of three midwives who worked together out of a birth center. And I just loved, loved that meeting so much. And it just felt really great. I felt, it just felt so much more personable and comforting to me. And it just felt really good. we decided to change providers yet again. I always tell people if you don't, there wasn't anything wrong or bad about the previous providers, but it just didn't, there was like something that just didn't feel quite right. So I always tell people, listen to that. And if you want to change, it's okay. even if it's late in the pregnancy So, yeah, I was really happy with their care, we would have these hour long appointments. And we were living in like a fourplex at the time, so just renting. So I didn't feel super comfortable having a home birth, so I decided to do a birth center birth. I did hire a doula, and she was amazing. I can't even honestly tell you what made me decide to hire a doula. It just sounded, I guess I just heard about them and thought it sounded like a smart idea. Uh, yeah, but I just, yeah, I really loved our doula. She was fantastic. and then Yeah, I guess that's I don't know, where should we go from here?

Kiona: 13:17

Well, let me ask a couple of questions before we dive into your birth story. You said that you were advanced maternal age during your pregnancies. How old is that for the listeners? Because some people, or I should, I'm going to say, how young is that? Because advanced maternal age in the, OBGYN pregnancy realm is off putting because they consider it a geriatric pregnancy and by no means is anybody geriatric. So please let us know how young you were.

Angela: 13:47

Yeah. Yeah. So I was 36 when I had my son, with my first child. And the midwives never made a big deal about it. They never called me high risk. If they had considered me high risk, then they would have transferred my care to a hospital provider. I do remember coming to my midwife close to the end of pregnancy. And I think I had, there's a great evidence based birth article on advanced maternal age and I had read that and I was feeling worried and I, talk to my midwife. We had a big conversation and, she just seemed very at ease with everything. She's like, yeah, and like you're really low risk and this and that. And, if she had seemed alarmed, I'm sure that would have affected me and my choices, but none of them seemed worried at all. otherwise I had not had any health issues or anything. So it seemed like a good decision. And I will say my mom had had five kids and I'd always heard stories about her, like she had Her baby's in the hospital, but she had had babies without the epidural, as natural as possible, whatever that means for her time. and so I do think that that affects, I just felt confident, like, Oh yeah, I can do it.

Kiona: 15:07

hmm.

Angela: 15:08

never really felt.

Kiona: 15:10

Mm

Angela: 15:11

Too afraid I also, I do think she had some fear of epidural. She had heard some bad stories. And so I think that also carried over to me. you know, I was like, Oh, I'm kind of scared of that needle. So, you know, we're all scared of something in our birth.

Kiona: 15:26

Yeah. yeah, I think that it's awesome that when you went to your midwife, you did feel like that comfort even though you were 36. And first, good for you for doing some more research on what advanced maternal age meant and what it looked like for you and things like that. And bringing that evidence based article with you is actually pretty awesome. It shows that you really care about your choices and your agency, like you're not just leaving it all up to your providers, and things like that. But, did your midwives give you any additional testing or anything because of your advanced maternal age status? Did you have to do anything what would be considered extra than someone who wasn't carrying that tag along with them?

Angela: 16:09

Yeah, I think that I did do the genetic testing. and I remember my doctor in Boston also had given me information about that and said, it's kind of up to you, you can do this. that you might be at slightly higher risk because of your age for certain things. so yeah, we did do that just, it was just like a blood test, I believe. I can't remember like how far along I was. We just thought it would be good to have all the information. And, yeah, fortunately everything was okay.

Kiona: 16:45

Awesome.

Angela: 16:46

Yeah, that was kind of it. Yeah.

Kiona: 16:48

Yeah, and so with that genetic testing, is that like the NIPT test, the noninvasive perinatal testing?

Angela: 16:55

Yeah, I think it's more of like a screening so that if there's anything that comes back a potential then you do more testing and maybe do an amniocentesis, but yeah, I didn't have an amniocentesis, which I think I would have been pretty nervous about so I was very grateful not to have to do that. Yeah,

Kiona: 17:15

Yeah, so let's go ahead and dive in to what the birth of this one looked like for you.

Angela: 17:21

My son was born, or he was due just after Christmas, and, I'd heard all these stories about first time people having their babies past their due date, so that's what I anticipated. I do remember there was one weekend, like a few weeks before his due date, where I just was having a lot of cramping. and I remember talking to my midwives and I think I, we were going out of town that weekend. We were like going out to the coast for a little getaway. And so I was a little nervous and they were like, here's what you should look for. And I think it was just my body getting ready. Because fortunately, it passed. and we were able to take our little trip. So that was just kind of interesting. I do remember. Someone told me, I was, said I was worried about like, what if we go and then I go into labor and then we're like out on the coast, I have to go to this hospital out there and she was like, it's fine. There's doctors out there like they'd deliver your baby. And I was like, but it's not my midwives. It's not like my people, that idea seemed really like shocking to me. but fortunately did not go into labor then. so it was about a week before my due date, it was like a Wednesday night, I started to notice some pain, like abdominal pain, kind of crampiness that was coming and going and I mentioned it to my husband and, it was just not really like on his radar or mine really. and he was just kind of like, Oh, okay. Whatever, you know, we went on about our business. and then that night, it got pretty painful. So like throughout the night, and I was having some back pain with it. and so I think I got the heating pad out. And I do remember getting up in the middle of the night and timing my contractions, what I thought were contractions, and they were all over the place. and they were, eight minutes apart, then 15 minutes apart, two minutes apart. So I didn't really understand, I was like, I know I think they're supposed to be regular, but they were pretty painful. and then the next morning I had an, a midwife appointment that was already scheduled. So I went to that appointment just, by myself and I think when I woke up that morning, they died off a bit, but I was still having them from time to time and so I went in and saw my midwife and she offered to give me a cervical check and she offered to do a membrane sweep, if I wanted one to just help things along. and it's funny cause I just read back over my birth story because I wrote it down right afterwards in my journal and I looked back and I think I was already like three centimeters dilated or something but she was very like nonchalant about it and like you know you could have your baby this weekend or it could be Next week, or we don't know. We'll just see what happens. and I think in the back of my mind, I was just kind of like, I think this is it. I don't know. I just had a feeling. So I went home after that. And then I called my, my best friend, the person who had had the home birth in Oregon. Cause she was planning to come up for my birth and I was like I just, I don't know if you should come, like you have two kids yourself, I don't want you to come, like it might be a false alarm and I, I got kind of emotional on the phone call and she just immediately was like, I'm going to just pack up my car right now, I'm just going to come

Kiona: 20:56

Mmm

Angela: 20:56

And that was pretty awesome. So I can't, so that was Thursday, so I think she got there Thursday night, Thursday evening. And then that second night, the same thing happened. I was having those irregular contractions, but I think because they didn't feel as painful to me at that point, because I think I just had kind of gotten used to them a little bit, and so I was able to get some sleep Thursday night, which I think was really crucial. Like, if I hadn't got that sleep, I'm not sure how my labor would have gone, but I did manage to sleep. I used the heating pad again. And then the next day, my husband still, he went to work, so I just hung out with my best friend. And it ended up being like this really lovely day where, we just, we went for walks. She helped with last minute stuff around the house. We had all this recycling we had to take. So, you know, we went to the recycling center. Um, we went to Fred Meyer and looked for a birth ball because I didn't have a birth ball. I do remember walking around Fred Meyers and having a contraction and having to stop and, breathe and, some middle aged man walked by and was just, like, looking at me, smiling, like, what is going on? And then, I just waved and, like, went on about my time at Fred Meyers. And we went out and had lunch together, we walked on the beach, like it just, it ended up being this really lovely day together where I was still having contractions, but they were, mild enough that I might pause for a moment and then just continue, but they weren't really taking my breath away or anything for the most part. and then we met a friend for coffee around 5 p. m. And something shifted where I had gotten my drink and had it on the table. And I just couldn't drink it. I just was looking at it and then people were talking and I just stopped paying attention. It just, I kind of felt like the world was kind of closing off. Like I was going internal, and I remember my friend saying okay, I think it's time to go. And I guess they had been noticing, like to me, it just, I didn't realize that things were changing, but it must have been a lot more obvious to them. Because I don't think I even had one sip of that drink, and then we just left. and, we went home, and just kind of continued, to do my thing with my friend there, and my husband was home. And then at some point, I think my friend was like, I think you should call your doula, like this is, Getting a little out of my element. So, my doula came over, but it was still mild enough, we got dinner together and we took a walk. and it was Christmas time, so like the lights are sparkling everywhere and we're just taking this walk in the brisk cold air. and I definitely was like going into that labor land feeling where, you feel a little bit high, you know, it's everything's like a little magical. and we went back home, and I think my contractions were becoming regular, but they still were only around 45 seconds long. so I think there was some question of, should we go to the birth center or not? let's see if we can stay a little bit longer. So we tried to watch a movie, and I couldn't really focus on the movie at all. I wasn't really paying any attention. So finally, my doula was like, well, let's just go. And I was having back pain also, and that continued throughout the rest of the labor. so we got to the birth center at around midnight. and my midwife checked and I was four centimeters. I do remember that she had this tired look on her face, like, Okay, I'll admit you, I was probably not quite ready to be there. But I was so relieved, that we could just stay there's nobody else at the birth center that night. at least not when we arrived. and yeah, the idea of like having to go back home and then come back in later sounded really hard. So I was very grateful we got to stay. and then we just got into this great rhythm, where my, doula would count 1 to 10 for each contraction. And that became my coping mechanism for like most of the labor. She also had a TENS unit, and that was super helpful because I was having that back pain. My doula would just be right in my face, counting, and then my husband or my friend would do some counterpressure on my back or massage, and we just continued to do that and I would be on the bed and then I would get up and I would walk to the bathroom and then I'd walk back to the bed and then I did try the birth tub. They have these big, beautiful birth tubs there. So I tried that, but I couldn't really get into a good position with that back pain, especially like I felt like I needed to be leaning forward and I couldn't, get into a comfortable spot. So, got out and then just continued this, walk back and forth from the bed to the bathroom. My midwife at one point, She had to actually leave and go to a home birth for somebody who was having like their third baby. So she was like, I'll be back soon. Like, it's going to go fast. So she had another midwife come in and hang out while she left. And then she came back later. I was still laboring. I do remember at one point. It was very intense, and I remember thinking in my mind, I am going to die. this pain. It's going to be the end of me, I'm going to die. And then the next time the contraction happened, and I started to have those thoughts, in my mind I said, Okay, you thought you were going to die the last time, but you didn't. So, just forget about that. you're not going to die. It's just pain. And then after that, I just kind of let go of whatever that fear was that was creeping in, I just got into the zone, and so I, I mean, I did think at one point, should we transfer to the hospital for an epidural or, some kind of pain relief, but just again, like the idea of having to get in the car and go across town, I just was like, no, I couldn't. It's not an option. So just kept going. and then I think, it was like eight in the morning, I was checked and I think I was like eight centimeters. and so my midwife offered to break my waters to kind of help. They could tell that I was starting to get tired. So that was like a big discussion. I was really Worried about that. I was really scared like I don't want any interventions at all and I do remember my doula saying you might meet your baby a little bit sooner if you do this, you know, it's an option and That sounded nice to me

Kiona: 28:13

hm

Angela: 28:14

So I agreed to do that and that must have worked because pretty soon, you know by I think by 9 a. m I was ready to start pushing And, yeah, so I tried a bunch of different positions. Birth stool on the bed. I ended up, having him just on my back on the bed, just kind of like old fashioned pushing, you know, people holding my legs. And I'm not really sure, everything's a little blurry, at that part of the birth, so I'm not really sure what led up to the conversation about me ending up in that position, but that's, that's where I was, and it worked. I think I only pushed for, I do remember, I started at nine, And I do remember looking at the clock at 9. 15 and asking my midwife, like, how much longer is this going to go on? It feels like I've been pushing for hours. And she was like, well, usually first time people push for two hours or longer. I was like, Oh my God. but I had him at about 10 o'clock. So just about an hour of pushing. They did think during the labor that he might have been posterior, sunny side up, because of all that back labor, and I think of my contraction pattern. but he wasn't born that way, so at some point he must have turned. he did come out with his hand up by his face, a nuchal hand. So that might have been why I was having back labor. I'm not sure. so I would say like the pushing was very painful. I know some people are like, oh, that was the best part, but for me it felt really painful. So probably because of that nuchal hand, I'm guessing. Yeah, so he came out and I just remember they were all like, give a big, big push. And I just, I didn't know even how close he was to being born. So they just plopped him, like all of a sudden he was there and they just plopped him on my stomach. And I was so shocked. And he was like bright purple. And he was just, he looked really mad to be born. And he didn't cry immediately, but. Pretty soon he started crying. I do remember them, stimulating him a lot and then getting him crying. and he was a big boy. He was nine pounds, two ounces. so that was exciting and, I don't think I was immediately like, Oh my gosh, I love this baby so much. I think I was more just shocked in the moment. and then, they put him in my arms and I think it just, it felt very surreal to me. So yeah, after that I did have I think a second degree tear and I had a, Oh, what do you call it? It's like a bruise on my perineum. A, I can't remember the name of it, but

Kiona: 31:10

Like a hematoma,

Angela: 31:11

hematoma. Yeah, hematoma. so that was painful. What happened next was a little scary, dicey for me. I was holding him, I think we were trying breastfeeding. And then I adjusted myself, like scooted back on the pillows, and I remember my doula actually was like, oh my god, because I had had there was just a lot of blood all of a sudden when I moved. So I'm not even sure. I think she was saying, Oh my God, because she was surprised by the blood. She might have been saying, Oh my God, because of the baby. I don't know. but definitely the atmosphere in the room changed very quickly. It just became very serious. Everyone was quiet, serious. my midwife, immediately got, uh, I think it was a shot of Pitocin gave me a couple shots. I was talking to my best friend about this recently because I was like, I don't really remember a lot of this part. but I think that maybe there was some retained placenta, which had caused that hemorrhage. and so I do think after that they had to like try to get the rest of that out. But I don't remember that being painful, really, just It's all kind of a blur to me, but whatever they did, maybe it was just the Pitocin, the shots of Pitocin that helped, and they were able to get the bleeding under control, so I didn't have to like transfer to the hospital or anything like that. But I will say that that scared me a lot. It made me feel very vulnerable. You know, I had conversations with my husband later, like, what would we have done? what would they have done if there wasn't Pitocin? what did people do a hundred years ago? were there, you know, herbal remedies? What did people do in that situation? Afterwards, I was pretty tired and sore, I think, from the blood loss and the hematoma and, so it did take a little time to recover physically, feel good physically after that. I did eat a lot of like protein. You know, just really iron rich foods. But I did feel a bit unnerved and a little scared for my next pregnancy, because of that experience, especially because everything had been so great up until that point. So then it was a little hard going into my next pregnancy because I was like waiting for the other shoe to drop kind of at the end, so I did have to work through some of those failings in my next pregnancy. so yeah, that's birth number one.

Kiona: 33:48

Yeah, no. That is a journey for sure, and there's a couple of things that come to mind for me, one of the things that you said is you wonder what they would have done if there was not Pitocin or something like that readily available, and I thought something similar during my second because I had hemorrhaged, and, I was looking up something, and I don't even remember the exact source that I got it from, but I read that people would put just a piece of their placenta in their mouth along their gum line. Yeah, and it like triggers something to stop something, and I'm like, oh, that's so interesting, but how odd would that be for the birthing person to be like, oh, here, let me put this piece of raw organ on my line.

Angela: 34:34

Yeah, right.

Kiona: 34:36

so that would be interesting, but I guess at that point it's life and death, right? So like, you're willing to try whatever you need to try. I don't know how accurate that is, so don't go out and just put placenta in your cheek if you're really struggling. but yeah, I think that deserves some more research on like the things that you could do when medication is not around.

Angela: 34:54

Yeah,

Kiona: 34:55

Of course, there's the fundal massage, like just trying to get your uterus to clamp down as much as possible when it comes to hemorrhage, but that only goes so far. cause then there's uterine fatigue. You know, your, your body just gets really tired and muscles don't want to work when they're tired. So, yeah, that is, Definitely interesting, and I was also thinking of the term Occiput Posterior, or like, OP baby, when you were talking about back pain throughout your labor, because, that tends to be why birthing people have some difficult back labor, is when babies are just like positioned a little bit differently. And that nuchal hand, man, that did some damage to your perineum, didn't it?

Angela: 35:39

Yeah, I think so. Yeah.

Kiona: 35:42

Oh gosh, that probably the hand and the elbow as he was coming out, just kind of gave you that hematoma there, really tender and sore.

Angela: 35:50

Yeah it was definitely a journey. Yeah.

Kiona: 35:53

Yeah. I can't even, I mean I can imagine, but it's, it's definitely tough. So, what was your feeding choices? Did you decide that you were going to breastfeed, or did you have any complications with your feeding choices?

Angela: 36:08

Yeah. No, I wanted to breastfeed and, I would say that also went pretty smoothly. I feel very fortunate with my experience, especially being like a quote, older mom, you know? Um, he figured it out, pretty quickly, which was awesome. we did have some challenges, like when we went home, it was like, he was doing great at the birth center, and then we came home, and he, forgot how to latch on, and I forgot everything. Um, so, you know, it was definitely a learning curve. but Yeah, nothing too crazy. I didn't have to call a lactation consultant or anything like that. My midwives, came and visited me at home and that was super helpful. My doula came and visited and she was just super supportive and helped talk through that scary experience at the end, which was great. My best friend stayed for a couple days afterwards and she had also breastfed her children. So she was a great, source of information and encouragement. And then also my mom came and stayed with us for about a month. She didn't do really like practical, technical support with breastfeeding, but she had also breastfed herself. So they just really normalized things and were very encouraging. so I think that that was, a huge thing. Again, if anybody had seemed like alarmed or reactive, I'm sure that would have totally changed a lot of how all these things went. So with him, I think I had a little bit of fast letdown, you know when the milk is coming really fast, because I do remember he was gaining weight great, everything was Okay, but there was like a time period where he was just crying so much every feed. He would start out crying and that would become very stressful. And then I was crying, and there's just milk everywhere. so I did call La Leche League, I called one of their leaders, and just talked to her over the phone. And I had been pumping like once a day and I was getting a lot of milk. So she was like, okay, I think this is what it is. She gave me some, some good tips. And then I talked to my nurse practitioner that we were seeing. I was like, does he have colic? Is it this? Is it that? And she's like, you know, baby's digestive systems are just really undeveloped. And usually around two months or so things get better. And it was almost like to the day. suddenly he could kind of handle it, and he stopped freaking out so much during the feed. So that was great. And then it was pretty smooth after that. I continued to breastfeed him until I was pregnant with my second baby. and, yeah, I was really grateful.

Kiona: 39:06

Yeah, that sounds like there were some common challenges, with Determining the letdown, how colicky babies can be, but it didn't sound like there was anything that was too treacherous or too challenging to make it to where you were thinking about stopping breastfeeding or anything like that. You kind of just pushed through and did, did the thing.

Angela: 39:25

Yeah. You know, it's hard also, like, looking back, I can look through, the rosy glasses, and be like, oh, it was great, but I do remember a lot of, tears and, a lot of big emotions in that time.

Kiona: 39:41

yeah.

Angela: 39:41

yeah.,a lot of sleeplessness.

Kiona: 39:44

Yeah. Yeah. Sleep deprivation is huge and contributes very much to your emotional state.

Angela: 39:51

Yeah.

Kiona: 39:52

yeah. Well, I think that's awesome. I think your first story is super, super great. And it makes me excited to dive into the second because you had said that you breastfed up until your second pregnancy. So. I guess that gives me the question, how do you think breastfeeding impacted your conception? And was your second planned? Or did they just kind of, oops, okay, here we go.

Angela: 40:18

Yeah, so because I was older, we thought we would, try again soon. we were worried if we waited too long, like it would be a lot harder. So, whenever I got my period back I think not until he was like 14 months old around there. we decided to go ahead and try. And I don't think breastfeeding did impact the conception. we were able to get pregnant really quickly. Again, I just feel so grateful. and while I was pregnant with our second boy, breastfeeding started to feel painful and it started to kind of annoy me. just like the, all that body contact. and I wasn't very interested in tandem nursing. so I think it was like right before his birthday, like around Thanksgiving. I weaned him and it went really smoothly. He seemed fine, and then I actually went out of town For like a week, and when I came back he had just moved on So I was grateful for that. Pregnancy was similar I did have a lot more nausea in the beginning and I just, got so sick one day that I, Oh, actually, let me back up and tell a funny story. I, um, so, when I was In the beginning of being pregnant with him, there was one day, I don't think I was very far along at all, like six weeks or something. And I had already, gotten my midwife on board. My husband made it like a tamale pie. That was like so delicious and I ate a lot of it And I had so much abdominal pain. I thought something horrible was happening. I called the midwife. She was like, I think you should go to urgent care. This sounds suspicious, like it might be an ectopic pregnancy. You should go check, get checked out. By the time we got to urgent care, I was fine and they did an early ultrasound and they couldn't even really see. They were like, we can see something in there, but it was so early they couldn't see a lot, but they tested my blood levels. They're like, everything looks okay. It's you don't have an ectopic pregnancy. We can rule that out. So that's still just like a joke with us. Like it's the tamale pie.

Kiona: 42:46

Yeah.

Angela: 42:47

Yeah, so I don't advise eating that while you're newly pregnant, but

Kiona: 42:53

tamale pie is good though, so it's, it's hard to resist.

Angela: 42:57

know. Mm hmm, yeah. It was really good. yeah, but then a little bit later in the first trimester, I did like kind of suddenly start getting all this nausea, and then there was one day where I just could not stop throwing up. Like I couldn't hold anything down. I was just laying in bed. I couldn't even like drink water, and again, talk to my best friend in Oregon, and she had had hyperemesis. Gravida. Am I saying that

Kiona: 43:24

Hyperemesis. Gravidarum.

Angela: 43:26

Yeah. So she was like, call your midwife, see if you can get some anti nausea medicine as soon as possible because you really don't want to have to like go get IV at the hospital, like just do this. And so that's what I did. I did get some Zofran and that helped immediately, like pretty quickly. And it was kind of strange because I thought, maybe I just had a stomach bug or something, but everyone else was fine. And then the same thing happened again in my third pregnancy, where it was just this sudden, can't keep anything down. and then the Zofran really worked for me. And then I think I did, What is it? Unisom and the B6? B12?

Kiona: 44:09

I think it's B six. Yeah.

Angela: 44:11

yeah, so then I did that and then I felt a lot better. Besides that, everything went pretty smoothly, for the rest of the pregnancy. and then towards the end, I did start having some prodromal labor. That would happen overnight and they would be really regular contractions. So they'd be like four minutes apart, like pretty intense, wake me up. And then they would just go away after a few hours. So that was very frustrating. That happened for like, I feel like a couple weeks before I had my baby. I think the challenge there was just having a very active toddler while pregnant. and, having to chase him around a lot, which was hard. Oh, and we thought like, okay, our first came a week early, so that's just probably how long this one needs. And then, of course, 40 weeks comes along and he's still not here. That felt really treacherous because, I was expecting him already to be there, so it felt like I was like 45 months pregnant. It was just terrible. so my best friend came up around my due date and she could stay just for a limited time. So then I think I felt this pressure like, okay, I gotta get this baby out. And I was having those, contractions overnight, then they would just go away and then finally she had to go back home So I was like damn it still no, baby Then around 40 weeks and four days My midwife came, she said when you're 41 weeks, you'll probably have to go in for non stress testing. just make sure everything is okay. And that kind of scared me because I really wanted to avoid induction. and she said, well, we could do a check now, see where you're at. I could do another membrane sweep. And then that also scared me because with the first, I do think it helped me get into labor. So it was kind of like, Oh, now I have to do this thing. If this works. so she checked and I forget what I was, but she was like, oh, okay, you are really close to going into labor. she did the membrane sweep, and she was like, you need to call me right away, whenever you start to have, real regular contractions. And I guess one other thing I forgot to mention is that I live on Vashon Island, which is just accessible by ferry, so she was a little nervous about that, because, you do have to follow the ferry schedule, but I was like, whatever, it'll be fine. So after that membrane sweep, I went and took a walk with a friend, and I did start to have some, more intense contractions. But, not super painful, but I was like, oh yeah, okay, that's cool, like, they're happening. I did have another doula, I chose a different doula this time, just somebody who lived on the island, so they're a little bit closer to me. ironically, she was in Seattle when I went into labor, but we talked, and she said, okay, she's kind of the same as my midwife. Like, the moment things are regular, you gotta let us know. The baby's coming. and I was like, okay, whatever. my first was so long, whatever. I continued to have those contractions, but then they kind of leveled off and they really didn't feel like much, but they were coming, like they weren't going away and they were pretty regular. They were, I don't know, every five minutes or something like that. So, we decided to go to my brother's house, he lives in Seattle. and just hang out there, have dinner, and took our toddler to my friend's house. and, so we went over there, we had dinner, we were watching a show. I remember, if I paid attention to the contractions, they were coming. pretty consistently, but if someone distracted me, if I was like laughing at the show, then I could like barely feel them. I talked to my midwife and she was like, I think you should just come to the birth center so we don't have to worry. you're just here because they're so regular. And I was like, I don't, they're just, they're not painful at all. This is not labor, you know?

Kiona: 48:26

Mm-Hmm.

Angela: 48:27

And she's like, okay. and then they just stopped. All of a sudden, the contractions just fizzled out. I was so discouraged, like, oh my god, I'm just like, we've done all this, just sent my toddler away, like, inconvenienced everybody, it's so disappointing. Talked to my midwife, she's okay, just go to bed, get some rest. And, probably I was crying, I don't know, very sad. And, around like 1:30, I woke up and I was like, Oh, like that feels like a painful, strong contraction. Like this feels different. So I got up for maybe 20 to 30 minutes. I just kind of was by myself. I drank some water, moved around and they were like getting pretty intense pretty quickly. So I started thinking like, yeah, I think these are the kinds of Contractions where I want some additional people around, some extra support. So, woke up my husband, called our doula, our midwife, decided to head to the birth center. I think we were there by like 3 a. m. And it was just lovely. We went to the same birth center, we're in the same room where my first child was born. it was just really dark and it was just our, it was my husband and then our midwife and her birth assistant and my doula. And that was it. so it was just very quiet and I was having a little bit of back pain, but nothing like before. and so I remember my doula giving me like some massage and hip squeezes. And then my midwife would be in front of me talking to me. and my husband, like we both thought Oh, this is going to be a really long time because the first is long. So he laid down to take a nap. And I was just resting, conserving his energy, and then they filled up the birth tub, and I got in there, and this time it felt really awesome and amazing, and I do remember at one point I looked up and I saw my midwife, putting on her gloves, and I was like, oh, Am I about to have the baby? shouldn't someone wake up my husband? So we wake him up and he runs over and he's very alert. and then I don't think I had any cervical checks the whole time. She just, watched my behavior. And, I was like, can I push now? I didn't have that, extreme urge to push. Or, the, the reflex. I mean, I had an urge, but I didn't have, that reflex. I remember kind of asking her. I do remember having some moments right before he was born where I was a little scared. Like, All of a sudden, I was looking around it's just a few people in this room. is this okay? You know, where are the doctors? And, it felt a little. Unnerving, but then I started pushing. I think it was just a few pushes, and then he was out. I do remember, roaring him out, kind of feeling like, I'm this warrior, and I, pushed really hard, and he was born pretty quickly in the water and, my midwife said he also had a nuchal hand, so that was interesting, but it didn't seem to cause as much of an issue this time. I did ask for a shot of Pitocin as a proactive measure this time, just because I was so nervous about experiencing that hemorrhage again. and so, that just gave me some peace of mind. and I think it gave my midwife some peace of mind, honestly. she seemed happy to do that for me. and so, yeah. Had him, moved to the bed. He also was able to latch pretty quickly. And he was a little bit smaller. He was Eight pounds, eight ounces. so probably because I was chasing the toddler around so much while I was pregnant. And we just had this lovely nap at the birth center right after he was born where we just like the three of us snuggled up in bed and everybody left and Then came back an hour later, and it was just very peaceful It was really lovely and I did not bleed too much. I had like a first degree tear not too bad and when we went home. I just really concentrated on resting with the baby and my husband took care of the toddler and we had some friends and family help us around the house and help with the toddler. And I just stayed in the back bedroom with the baby and breastfed and watched Netflix together and took naps and ate and it was awesome. I felt pretty good. and. It was a really sweet time. So that was baby number two.

Kiona: 53:20

Yeah, that sounds awesome. That also sounds, of course, like its own journey. And the prodromal labor is probably something that you did not expect to happen the second time around. prodromal labor is no joke. I personally haven't experienced it, but I've talked to many people who have. And They're like, it just sucks, because you're constantly on edge, you're constantly like, is it now? No. Is it now? No. And then you just go on living your life. And I think that's where strong denial comes from, when you're like, actually in labor. And you're like, is it now? I mean, maybe.

Angela: 53:58

Uhhuh.

Kiona: 53:59

yeah,

Angela: 54:00

Yes. For sure

Kiona: 54:01

that's a whole thing. Yeah. And so did you end up getting an AROM this time? did you get your waters broken the second time around? No?

Angela: 54:11

No. My water broke. I think right as I was pushing, or like right before I do remember I was in the tub and the midwife saying like, Oh, that's your water like so calmly.

Kiona: 54:23

Mm hmm.

Angela: 54:24

there was a little bit of meconium in the water. but I mean, he was born so soon after that. And I think it was just a little bit. and she suctioned him after and checked him out and he was totally fine.

Kiona: 54:37

Yeah, and I think that you, being the one to initiate the conversation with your midwife about doing active management and having Pitocin anyway before any signs of, Hemorrhage is actually really awesome, and I think it's great that your midwife was like, yeah, why not? Let's do it. It doesn't hurt, you know?

Angela: 54:54

Yeah. I haven't really looked at it that way. And I know that might not feel like the right option for other people, but for me, it did give me some peace of mind and, I just had a lot of conversations with my doula also just leading up to it. And I remember her saying Our feelings are there for a reason, like you just talk about them until they change, and then you don't need to anymore, and, for my next, pregnancy, I really didn't have that kind of fear hanging over my head, so that was nice.

Kiona: 55:24

Yeah, that sounds amazing. Let's go ahead and dive into that. So, your third you had mentioned in your guest request form that it was a little bit of a surprise and there were some emotions around that. So let's dive into that.

Angela: 55:38

Yeah, so we always talked about just having two, and I really thought because of my age also, that it wouldn't be a concern, that like surprises were sort of something of the past but I did have this little, lingering feeling of, I still want another baby. I would love to have a girl, a little bit of sadness. I mean, I love my boys, of course, but I think I was a little bit sad. That I didn't get a girl. and I did just continue to have this feeling. like a little bit of a yearning for another baby. But for our family, we were like, logically, we were like, this is the best option. Just the two kids. This is what we planned. and so I was 39. And we had had some visitors, staying with us for a long time, maybe a little too long, and, and, I think it just kind of threw my cycle off a little bit. and again, I just didn't think that I could have a surprise pregnancy, like I just, I don't know, it just didn't seem like that needed to be something I was worried about. But lo and behold, I, noticed like my period hasn't come and I took a test and it was, what was it? I think it was negative the first time I took it. So I told my husband, Oh, we can, and he was like, Oh, I'm relieved. Like we had relief, but then I was like, but why am I still not getting my period? This is weird. So then, a week later, I was like, Oh, actually I did get the positive test. Um. There were a lot of emotions at first. I felt kind of guilty, like this isn't what we planned, it's my fault somehow, even though there's two of us, I don't know, and I did reach out to my original midwives, and I do remember going and having my first appointment with them just to confirm the pregnancy and I do remember having a really frank conversation, like a compassionate conversation with my midwife and she was like, it's okay if this is not what you want, Have you thought about your options, just a kind conversation but I just didn't, I felt like I, I guess I just really felt like deep down. I wanted that baby, and that it would be okay. but yeah, there were some like turbulent emotions.

Kiona: 58:01

Mm

Angela: 58:01

Um, Also just like when you have decided you're done with going through childbirth and all of that and having another baby I've just given away all my baby stuff to somebody like a week before so it's like oh we have to do this all over again. Psychologically it's hard And I'd be 40 when I had the baby, you know, so I'm getting older. There could be more Risks involved or just it's just harder like you're tired. so we went in and had, our first ultrasound, my husband did come and that, I remember that was like a special moment because everything looked good. And it was very reassuring and I remember leaving that appointment and my husband, he seemed really happy. And so that was like a really good feeling of like, okay, we're on the same page, I think this will be okay. And again, I had that weird thing where I suddenly got really sick and it just was not stopping. From past experience, I just immediately got the Zofran prescription, and that kind of sent me back on track, fortunately. Besides just being tired from having two rowdy toddlers, it went along pretty smoothly. We did do, the genetic testing. I forgot to mention, I think for both my second and my third, there was a new option where we could do it pretty early in pregnancy, but my first, I think I had to wait a little bit longer, so like 18 weeks or something like that. But my second and third, I found out at like 12 weeks. We decided to find out what the sex was. We just couldn't. We were too excited to wait. and so, yeah I found out, her sex and I do remember, opening up the envelope and crying. Because I was just like, I don't think I can handle another boy.

Kiona: 59:53

Boys are something else. I only have one. And I just gotta say I mean girls, girls are also something else but that's a whole other. But that's exciting, that's exciting. Cuz you wanted, you felt that grief before.

Angela: 1:00:08

Yeah, I was really happy. So things just kind of moved along and then, for this time I decided not to hire a doula. I thought, I just want to do this with my partner. He can be my doula. and I used the same midwives, and again, they did not really act like my age was a big deal. And fortunately I stayed healthy, but I decided to switch birth centers just because I just wanted to do something different for this one. You know, you have associations with places, and while I had positive experiences, there was pain involved and I just kind of wanted a fresh slate. so I went to a different birth center. and I did have some prodromal labor again, but not anything as significant as with the second where it was like every single night, and I think maybe when you're so busy also with two toddlers, I was just like, whatever, like kind of ignored it, and so, yet again, I passed 40 weeks, and it was right around the same time as kid number two. I think I was, 40 in four days or something. so that night I went to bed, and I woke up at midnight. It felt like she had kicked me really hard on the inside, and I heard like a pop. and so I went to the bathroom, and there was a little extra fluid. But it wasn't like a lot and it didn't really continue. So I think that maybe that was my water breaking or like a leak or something, but I'm not sure. So called the midwife because the ferry at that time. There's a gap from 1 a. m. to 4 a. m., so this is around midnight, so I called the midwife and, she's like, oh, okay, she's groggy. I just woke her up. she's like, well, you'll just come in in the morning and we can check and see if it was your water. If anything changes overnight, just call and I was like, well, but we live in Vashon and there's this ferry gap from one to four. She was like, Oh yeah, I forgot about that. So we're like, how about we go to my brother's house again, stay for the night just in case. and then as I was talking to her, I had a painful contraction. So it's like, Oh, that's kind of surprising. we got off the phone. We called my brother. He didn't answer. We called our friend who was on baby duty. She was gonna watch our other two kids and she didn't answer So then we called our neighbor. Fortunately, she was up and we're like, can you come over just until the friend gets here? Cause we were worried about missing that last ferry. so she was able to come over and then we finally got ahold of my friend and then we were like, okay, let's head to the ferry. And we got to the ferry and I was surprised cause I was starting to have like pretty close contractions. and. I didn't want anybody to know that I was, potentially in labor. Because if they know that you're in labor, they want you to be in an ambulance just for insurance reasons. And I was like, I'm not about to have this baby. I don't think that's needed. So I just sat in the car, like, in a little ball, like, If I just stay very still, my labor will just stop, but I do remember at one point I got up to go use the restroom on the ferry and the wind was like blowing through the ferry and it like felt so good and I had a contraction and the wind was like rushing up and I was like, ah, it just felt very like wild and free. then we're driving to the birth center because it's a new birth center. We got lost on the way.

Kiona: 1:03:55

Oh, no!

Angela: 1:03:57

I mean, we figured it out quickly. We like got back on track. But, we got to the birth center at 2:30 in the morning. and again, I didn't have any cervical checks at all. And the midwife said, we think you're in early active labor, you seem like you're coping well, we'll, go out in the lobby and just rest and, like, we'll be right there, just let us know if you start feeling, like, you need to poop, then, like, call us back in, and you might be pushing. They filled up the birth tub, and I kept looking at it from the bed. You're like, oh, that looks really nice, but it's very far away, and I just couldn't get there. and I would say that, I do think I had more fear like when I arrived, I just, I had this kind of like resistance and I think it was because she was a surprise and I just was like, I don't want to do this again. But there was a student midwife there at the time who was so amazing and lovely, and I feel like she kind of acted as my doula also, along with my partner, but she just had this, kindness about her, and I was able to cry a little bit and kind of move past that feeling of resistance, and so I just continued laboring my husband,was helping me, And then, at one point, I think I was kind of laboring, standing up, with a birth ball on the bed, and I was leaning on it, and then, it was at that point that I could feel, her coming down, and Getting into position, and something changed and my midwives had come into the room at that point because they heard me making some vocalizations, so they were just kind of in the corner of the room, hanging out quietly, closing their eyes, and then, I felt this kind of switch and I was like, I think she's coming. So they all jump up, they run over. I still had like my underwear on. So they helped me out of that and they were like, Oh yeah, she's like right there so just go ahead and push, and pushed but this time I want to take my time, because I didn't want to tear, I just wanted to push her out gently, so I, was able to think to myself, okay, slow down, take a breath, but then my midwife was like, you can push, it's just, coming out, so I was like, okay, so pushed her out, again, another nuchal hand, I don't know. What's up with that? But it didn't cause any problems again this time. And she was a little bit smaller. Again, she was eight pounds, five ounces, screaming. And, I, again, asked for that, active management. I got a shot of Pitocin. They said everything looked okay, but I was like, I just still would prefer just to be safe, for myself, kind of that peace of mind. so. Yeah, everything was pretty smooth. She, again, was, great at latching on. I did feel tired. I felt really tired, with the second, I enjoyed that time at the birth center afterwards. It was very peaceful. This time I was just like, I wish I was at home. I just want to I don't want to have to go drive home, because you only stay a certain amount of time at the birth center. I do remember just being like, oh, can I just go home

Kiona: 1:07:20

Mm hmm. You wanna sleep in your own bed.

Angela: 1:07:22

yeah, yeah, but otherwise, everything was fine, and then, we got home. I think, I don't know if it was my age, or just how, even though it was a short birth, really just a few hours of active labor but, you're still working really hard, even if it's a shorter birth. it's still a lot. I've definitely felt pretty tired. It wasn't quite as, idyllic as the second time around, we did have a visitor come who helped out and that was nice, but I think I just really wanted my privacy and my, space. I just was in a different kind of head space. So yeah, but everything was, again, just to feel very grateful. Everything was pretty smooth. Yeah. So that's it.

Kiona: 1:08:10

And that's baby number three. Wow. Yeah, that sounds so interesting and I think it definitely falls under the line of your third being a wild card for you as well. I feel like, as birth workers and just as parents of experiencing a third pregnancy and birth, they are definitely different and they are along the side of wild. So, yeah, I understand that want to just get home after being all done. I did hear you say that you were standing on the side of the bed. Did you end up giving birth standing up?

Angela: 1:08:48

Yeah, I think I was because I think they just helped the baby out and then I had to do that awkward like turning around and they passed the

Kiona: 1:08:55

hmm. Through the legs and, Yeah. Yeah.

Angela: 1:08:57

Yeah.

Kiona: 1:09:00

fun. That's exciting. That's different, you know. that's cool. and the nuchal hands.

Angela: 1:09:07

I know. Oh, I was just gonna say it's a little blurry. I was either standing up or I was like. On all fours, like on the birth ball, on the bed, but definitely like on the edge of the bed, maybe half standing, half, I don't know. Its hard to remember

Kiona: 1:09:23

Yeah, yeah. Either way, I think that's really cool. They kind of just met you where you were and didn't tell you that you had to be in any specific position because everything that you were doing was working. So,

Angela: 1:09:34

one of the, birth assistants said afterwards that from the time I said,"she's coming" to like her birth was, I think it was like eight minutes. So it was, much different than the first time around.

Kiona: 1:09:48

Yeah, you were in tune with your body.

Angela: 1:09:50

Yeah.

Kiona: 1:09:51

Yeah, I think that's awesome. Well, Angela, I really, really appreciate you sharing your stories with me. I'm super excited to share these with the world. I do just have a few final closing questions for you, my first question is, what is one piece of advice that you would give to all pregnant people as they prepare for labor and birth, as well as postpartum?

Angela: 1:10:13

I think having a good support team is really crucial. and I always say like taking a childbirth class, although I am a childbirth educator. So of course I'm going to say that, but I do think even if you don't take a class, like reading a book or listening to this podcast or other podcasts, informing yourself of different options, and I would say, what helped with that first birth, just having calm. People around me that were super encouraging and supportive, you know, my best friend, of course, my husband, my doula, my midwives were so great. And then, my mom who came and gave a lot of support after. And so I really feel like that helps me feel successful, at what I was doing, and, didn't make it feel like even though there had been a small hemorrhage, it didn't feel like there was this huge emergency, like everything felt very calm. And I think it helps me process those experiences having that support.

Kiona: 1:11:14

Yeah. I think that's a really good point because the people that you do choose to have around you during your labor do really make an impact on the way that things turn out because if your midwife was freaking out at that hemorrhage, very obviously it could have turned something that was beautiful into something very traumatic. so yeah, I agree with that. And my next question is, what is one resource that I can share with the listeners on your behalf?

Angela: 1:11:40

so I've taught classes for Parent Trust for a while. It's a non profit in Seattle, and I think they're a great resource for classes. They also do, developmental screenings for children that are free. they have, A family helpline that you can call Monday through Friday, you know, any kind of questions. Like I could call if I had a question about my 11 year old or I could even call on behalf of a doula client, if they needed some resources. So yeah, I think they're fantastic.

Kiona: 1:12:14

Yeah, that's super awesome. I actually used to be a volunteer in a couple of the childbirth education classes at Parent Trust. So I think that that's, yeah, that's really cool. I will

Angela: 1:12:23

Yeah.

Kiona: 1:12:24

happy to share Parent Trust as a resource.

Angela: 1:12:26

Great.

Kiona: 1:12:27

Yeah. And so my last question for you is if you could describe your birth with one word, what would it be?

Angela: 1:12:36

I guess transformative. Yeah. Yeah, they definitely changed me, and I feel proud, that I could do that, and they did transform me. I, didn't know anything about babies, and then now I'm a doula, so And I know a lot So yeah, and just on a really deep level, I think they kind of Spiritually change who you are, at least in my experience. So it's, it's been cool.

Kiona: 1:13:08

Yeah, that's awesome. And you did just slightly mention it, but you had also mentioned in your guest request form that your birth experiences is what encouraged you to become a birth doula.

Angela: 1:13:19

Yeah for sure, yeah I remember being a little bit jealous of my doula, after having my first baby, like, wow. Like she gets to go do this all the time and help people through this. and so it just kind of lingered in the back of my mind until I was in a place where just logistically I could go and do a training and start attending births. I've just become more fascinated with the whole process of birth

Kiona: 1:13:46

yeah, that's super awesome. And so how long have you been practicing as a birth doula?

Angela: 1:13:53

I've been a doula now for five years.

Kiona: 1:13:56

Yeah, you've seen a lot in five years, I'm sure.

Angela: 1:13:59

Yeah, every birth is different, so it's like there's all similarities, but there's always something slightly different, so I feel like I learn something new every single time, always keeps you on your toes,

Kiona: 1:14:13

Yeah, absolutely, absolutely. Well, Angela, thank you so much. I really appreciate you coming on and sharing your experiences with us, and I'm just super excited to get them out there.

Angela: 1:14:24

Thank you so much, it's been fun,

Kiona: 1:14:27

Yeah, absolutely. Interviewing Angela for this episode was a true delight. She really brought a lot of attention to how, even though she was advanced maternal age, she still had the option to birth in an out of hospital setting. I really appreciate how vulnerable she was with us when she was talking about her miscarriage, as well as the emotions that came along with her having an unexpected third pregnancy. I also thought it was absolutely beautiful that her third pregnancy, it was her much wanted baby girl. Now, if you've made it this far, you know, that I have a big announcement to share with you. As the Birth As We Know It Podcast goes into its second year of production. I want to let you all know that the biggest change that's going to be happening is that the episodes will no longer be released weekly. I will be producing this podcast bi-weekly from now on. And if you want to know more as to why tune into the live that I will be doing in the Birth As We Know It Podcast Community on Facebook. A brief explanation is producing a podcast is hard y'all. Doing this every week has been a challenge for me, as a mother of three and a wife as well as an individual. So it's not sustainable for me at this time, but I am happy that I made it through an entire year with producing weekly episodes. I made sure that I did not drop the ball on publishing any of the episodes on the date it was supposed to be released. I did make one mistake on one of the episodes about halfway through the year where I forgot to hit publish, but that just goes to show how much I was actually struggling. But I do want to say that I absolutely love producing this podcast. I have made so many amazing connections and I'm so excited that I got the opportunity to share 53 stories thus far from amazing individuals and with that said it takes a lot of time and a lot of energy to produce this podcast. And as of right now, I am not making any money. I'm doing this out of the kindness of my heart, because it's something that I truly love to do and something that I am genuinely interested in learning more about. So. I'm spreading it out so that I can still create the podcast and give you all content and share these amazing stories with you. But I'm also spreading it out so that I can have some room for self care, love and my mental health. We are all growing each and every day. And I'm going to take advantage of this transition period of going into my second year of producing and creating and hosting this podcast. So. I highly advise that you tune into the live that I will be doing this upcoming Saturday on March 2nd at 12:00 PM. Noon 2024. And it is PST. So Pacific standard time. And I will be talking about all of the details of what you can expect in this upcoming year. As well as just connecting with you all in real time. And if you want to support the production of the Birth As We Know It Podcast go to birthasweknowitpodcast.com/support and become a patron on my Patreon page. As for next week's episode, I have an amazing guest. Her name is Anni Denzel and she is actually the host of a different birth story podcast. Her podcast is called military birth talk. And it's primary focus is talking about birth experiences and stories from those that have served in the military. Or those that are connected to those that have served in the military. And it talks about what it was like for them to go through all of the loopholes that they have to manage when it comes to getting services with Tri-Care giving birth with their partner or they themselves being deployed or overseas, and just figuring out all of the details of what that means and how that impacted each individual. So tune in next week, so we can hear about her two personal birth experiences. One of which was a C-section and the second is a VBAC. And after next week. You will be hearing an episode every other week. So I'll talk to you then. Bye. For now.