Birth As We Know It ™️-Birth Stories and Experiences

57-Lori Mortimore-Vaginal Birth-Sebastian-Labor With Love Washington

• Kiona Nessenbaum • Episode 57

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In this episode, Lori shares her quick birth experience with her son Sebastian and the lengths her family went through to be by her side. She also dives into the importance of preparing for postpartum during or before your pregnancy and how her personal experience led her to birth work. 

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Disclaimer: This podcast is intended for educational purposes only with no intention of giving or replacing any medical advice. I, Kiona Nessenbaum, am not a licensed medical professional. All advice that is given on the podcast is from the personal experience of the storytellers. All medical or health-related questions should be directed to your licensed provider. 

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Kiona:

Welcome to Birth As We Know It, a podcast that is dedicated to recognizing the many different ways that birth unfolds. I am your host, Kiona Nessenbaum. I have experienced birth as a doula, a student midwife, a birth assistant, and as a mother of three amazing children of my own. After attending over 140 births, I've realized that each birth experience is truly unique, so make sure you subscribe and join me as we are guided through many different birth experiences through the lens of the storyteller. Please be aware that some of these stories can be triggering to hear, so feel free to pause, take a breath, and come back and listen whenever you're ready. With that said, let's prep ourselves to dive deep and get detailed about what really happens in the birth space. As a reminder, this podcast is intended for educational purposes only, and has no intention of giving or replacing any medical advice. All advice that is given on the podcast is from the personal experiences of the storytellers. All medical or health related questions should be directed to your licensed provider. Hello, everybody, and welcome back to the Birth As We Know It podcast. Today, I am speaking with Lori Mortimer, who will be telling us about her personal birth experience with her son, Sebastian. Lori is also the owner of Labor With Love and she provides birth doula services. So welcome, Lori. Thanks for coming on.

Lori:

Hi, Kiona. Thank you for having me. Yeah, my name is Lori. I live in Anacortes with my husband Jordan, my two year old son, Sebastian, and our two pets, Jack is a Havanese dog and Phoebe is a cat. I am a birth doula, like Kiona said. I'm providing birth doula services in Skagit, Whatcom Island and North Snohomish Counties.

Kiona:

Beautiful, beautiful. I love that. So with you coming on to talk about your personal birth story, before we dive in, I think it would be awesome for listeners to know if your experience is what turned you to birthwork or if you experienced your own birth after you got into birthwork.

Lori:

My experience is definitely what turned me to birth work. I've always had an interest in birth, but it had just been something that I thought was cool before I had a baby of my own. Then when I was pregnant, I got super into learning absolutely everything I could possibly learn about birth, and I feel like I got really addicted to it. I just had the best time learning more and more, and then I wanted to be able to put that knowledge to use. And I had been teaching before I had my son, and it just felt like too much to go back into a classroom and be giving that much of myself to all of my students every day. I felt like I wouldn't have enough left to serve anybody as well as I'd like to. So, birth doula felt like a natural next step for me, while he's little at least.

Kiona:

Yeah, no, I think that's awesome. And I'm excited to hear the pathway of what made you make those decisions because every birth worker I've ever spoken to ends up here for different reasons. So I'm excited to get into the nitty gritty of that. So let's go ahead and do that. Let's dive into the conception process with Sebastian. How was that for you and your husband, Jordan?

Lori:

I'd been teaching for about two years. I'd had a steady position. We were both in comfortable jobs. We were in a place in our lives where we were feeling kind of settled and set, and we decided it was time to start trying. I'd been on hormonal birth control since I was 17 because of, like really bad menstrual cramps. So I'd just been taking it the whole time, and I was a little bit nervous about how long it would take me to conceive, but I stopped taking my pills. I had one full cycle after I stopped my birth control, and then we got pregnant! So it was really quick and easy and very much planned, and I didn't have to do all of the temperature taking and all of that. We just sort of stopped taking birth control and got pregnant. I feel really lucky.

Kiona:

Yeah, that's really awesome because, it makes it easier to kind of go along the same lines of your anticipated timeline.

Lori:

It actually happened a lot faster than I expected. I had thought I was going to need two or three months and then I had been planning for a spring baby and we ended up with a February baby because it was just way faster than I thought it was going to happen.

Kiona:

So, When you found out you were pregnant and told Jordan, how was that for you? Especially knowing that you knew that you conceived a little bit sooner than expected.

Lori:

Okay, so the day that I found out I was pregnant was the day that my period was due and it hadn't come yet. And I was like, Oh my gosh, this is so exciting because maybe I'm pregnant because it's always really regular since I've been on birth control for so long. And all day I was thinking, well, maybe I need to get a pregnancy test. And then afternoon, I talked to Jordan and I was like, I don't know. I think I might need to get a pregnancy test. My period hasn't come yet. I'm so excited. And then I took the dog for a walk before I went to go by the test, and I started feeling crampy. Ah, well, it must not. I'm definitely getting my period and it's not going to happen. But I got the pregnancy test anyway, cause I'd gotten all excited about it. I just wanted to take one and I got home and I went to take my pregnancy test and I had a little bit of spotting and I was like, well, there's not even a point in taking this because I'm clearly getting my period and that's just what's happening now. And then I took the pregnancy test and. In my head, I feel like I wanted to do it at a time when it would have been like just me and my husband, but I was so excited and I didn't want to wait. So I took it right after he started playing a game online with his best friend, fully expected it to be negative, and then shrieked from our downstairs bathroom right next to him and came running out like, look it's, it has two lights, it's two lights. And he's like, Oh, cool. That's exciting. And so, really my husband and his friend, Devin found out that we were expecting a baby at the same time. And they were the first two people to know, cause I can't, I'm not the kind of person who could keep it secret at all. I want to be the person who does like the big fancy surprise reveal or something. And it's just like, not. Me.

Kiona:

Yeah, that's definitely something that's ideal or fun to think of like, Oh, it'd be so fun to have that surprise moment. But then when it happens and you're just in the moment it's just so exciting and you just got to spill it out, you know? So how did Devin react?

Lori:

Oh, he was excited. He knew we were trying. They actually, their son is four months older than ours. So he was really excited that we were going to have babies close together.

Kiona:

Oh, that's so cool. Two families just Growing around the same time. That's so fun. So during your pregnancy, did you experience any, hard symptoms? Were you really nauseous or anything like that?

Lori:

I feel like I had a really good pregnancy on the whole. It really wasn't particularly hard. During my first trimester, I definitely had some nausea and a lot of just kind of exhaustion, but nothing abnormal. I don't know if I never threw up. Because I just never needed to, or if it was more because I hate throwing up with every fiber of my being and did everything I could possibly do to avoid it, but I managed to avoid throwing up my whole first trimester. I, for a little while there in, I think, late July, I feel like all I ate was Twizzlers filled sour straws. That was like the only thing that ever sounded good and I'd have to eat one before I could eat anything else. It'd be like seven in the morning and I'd be like, okay, well, I'm just gonna eat one Twizzlers so I can eat some breakfast. So that was a little weird and I had the most intense craving for sherbet during my first trimester. I was like, I need my Twizzlers, I need my sherbet, and that's what I'm gonna eat. But then the nausea cleared up. It must have been around 12 or 13 weeks. It was like right when school started, so it was just in time for me to go back to work. So I got to spend my summer laying on my couch feeling tired and nauseous and then started feeling good again just in time to go back into the classroom. So that was really great timing. So I was feeling better in September. And then just really enjoyed the rest of my pregnancy. I absolutely loved being pregnant. I was that really annoying person who's Oh, I'm glowing and this feels so amazing and I'm bringing new life into the world and I'm just so happy all the time who makes all the other pregnant women really angry.

Kiona:

Hey, but your experience is still totally valid and you are allowed to be happy about it. You know? Did you happen to attend any childbirth education course or look into any ways to prep for labor?

Lori:

Yeah, I knew that having an unmedicated labor was really, really important to me. My mom had an unmedicated labor both with my brother and myself, and it was just something that I felt like I really wanted to experience. Plus, it makes me feel really claustrophobic, the idea of not being allowed to get up and move around. I really, really hate that. So I knew I didn't want an epidural. That felt. Kind of scary and uncomfortable to me. So I did Bradley Method. I really loved it. It was It was good for me, but by the time we got started with the class I had already learned almost everything that we covered in the class just from reading every birth related book and listening to every birth related Podcast I could possibly get my hands on So it was extra good for my husband. He went into it knowing that not a lot about birth. And he came out of the class feeling like he was really empowered to support me. And he knew exactly what he needed to do and how he could support me. And he knew what to expect from the process. So I feel like that was the biggest benefit we got from that Bradley method class. I also downloaded the Expectful app and did like a lot of meditations and went through their hypnobirthing course because I kind of was interested in exploring hypnobirthing a little bit, but I didn't want to pay a bunch of money for another birth prep class. And I did a lot of prenatal yoga just to practice the deep breathing and the relaxation and the leaning into discomfort and embracing it and relaxing the muscles you're not using and all that good stuff. So that was kind of what most of my birth prep. Looked like.

Kiona:

That sounds awesome. And it sounds like self paced and just getting lots of information for multiple different places, which is really cool.

Lori:

Yeah, I'm a science person at heart, so gathering the information was really important to me. It's kind of, I guess, how I felt. As in control of the situation as you can be with something as uncontrollable as birth. Oh, and I forgot to mention, I guess the only really hard parts to my pregnancy were, Toward the end, in my third trimester, I started getting this weird, really intense rib pain, I think, on my right side, and it happened, almost exclusively when I was driving, because if it happened at home, I could just change positions and it would stop hurting. I think it was just his little foot or his bum reaching up and poking into my liver, but I, it started becoming a real problem for driving to school because I'd be like contorting in my seat while I was trying to drive and trying to breathe through this weird rib pain that wouldn't go away and I didn't want to leave in time to get out of my car every 20 minutes. and walk around for 10 minutes until the pain went away. And just as that was starting to become a real problem in January. I have a lot of anxiety just in general. I've been in therapy for years for my anxiety disorder, and I specifically have a lot of anxiety around germs. And it was when Delta was like really peaking, and it was like a whole big another wave of COVID thing, and mask restrictions were about to be relaxed at school, and I got super stressed out. Because everything I was reading was saying that if I was positive for COVID when I went to deliver, then my husband wasn't going to be allowed to come in with me, and I wasn't going to be allowed to have any support people, and as soon as my son was born, they were going to take him away, and I wasn't going to see him until I tested negative, and I got so freaked out. And I couldn't sleep and I couldn't eat and I was like starting to lose a little bit of weight and I went to the doctor's appointment and I had a really high, well not really high, but high for me blood pressure reading and I was just a mess. So I'd gone and seen my doctor and I told him all these things that I was anxious about and he was like, Well, I will do my best to fight for you to get the things that you need and I don't think it's gonna be as dire as all that and you probably won't get COVID and I think you're gonna be all right and I said, okay, I guess that's okay and then I went home and I didn't sleep at all, I couldn't eat anything and I felt super nauseous and he just told me that I needed to be gaining more weight. And I'd had this high blood pressure reading, and I was just feeling worse and worse. So I went back the next day for an emergency appointment. And I was like, I don't think I can be at school anymore. I just don't think I can do this because I'm so anxious. And you can't tell me that the things I'm afraid of won't happen. So he ended up writing me out of work early. in early January, like right after we got back from winter break. I think I worked one week after winter break and then ended up taking my maternity leave early because I was just, between that and the pain making it hard for me to drive, it just was not feeling safe for me to go to work anymore. So that was the only other, that was like the hardest part, I guess, of the whole pregnancy, honestly.

Kiona:

Yeah, so that actually brings up a couple of questions for me. So with the pain and you're explaining like the location of the pain, it sounds like you were saying upper right hand quadrant area, like by your liver. That makes me think of like preeclampsia. Did you ever get tested or did anybody screen you for preeclampsia?

Lori:

Yeah, they did the urine testing. I only had one blood pressure reading that was not high. It was not beyond the range of normal for most people, but I have low blood pressure typically. So it was like high for me, but not anything high enough for them to be really worried about. So they did make sure they paid close attention to my blood pressure and they were screening my urine for protein at every appointment. But it didn't end up being, I had been worried about it when I went to my doctor. I was like, I feel like this is concerning cause it feels like it's in the area of my liver and my mom had HELLP syndrome with my brother. So I was kind of like a little extra on high alert. But after that, all my blood pressures were low and I didn't have any. Protein in my urine or anything the rest of my pregnancy.

Kiona:

That's good. That's good. And then, so, you did say that you took maternity leave a little bit early. What gestation in your pregnancy was that? And what was your expected time of maternity leave prior to leaving early?

Lori:

I would have been a month early because I was planning on starting my leave at 38 weeks since I was driving an hour each way and I was a little bit nervous about my mom had a really fast labor With both me and my brother and I was a little bit nervous about being in labor and then being in really heavy labor by the time my husband got to the school to pick me up because I wouldn't be able to drive myself. So I had been planning on leaving at 38 weeks and I left at 34.

Kiona:

All of those concerns are so valid because I even personally had some like that because when I was pregnant with my son, I had a really long commute and I ended up doing the same thing and pulling out early. I actually quit my job instead of just leaving from maternity leave. I quit my job because I was like driving an hour and a half each way. And so I'm saying that to say I totally get it. I totally understand those concerns. So along the lines of quick labors, when was the moment that you knew that you were in labor once you got near the end of your pregnancy?

Lori:

my son came a little bit on the early side. The Friday before I had him, I had had to go to get monitored because I was having a little bit of Bleeding and by a little bit I mean like significantly more than I'd usually get from a period, but I'm always a light bleeder So enough that they wanted me to go in and get checked. And it ended up being nothing But when we went in oh, yes I'll tell you exactly what it was my husband and I had had sex that morning and I had a minor cervical laceration. My doctor said it was like a skinned knee of the cervix. Which didn't hurt at all at the time or even afterwards. I guess I was just fairly effaced. So,

Kiona:

yeah, the bleeding is really common after sex, for sure, especially when you're later in pregnancy, because the cervix has a lot of nerve endings and lots of little blood vessels that like to be popped, so.

Lori:

So, I had ended up sitting in the birth center at our hospital for a couple of hours while they did monitoring and checked my amniotic fluid levels and made sure that everything looked good. But as we were going in, I had in the back of my head up to that, I'd been like, I can't have this baby, I'm not ready, he needs to stay in at least until his due date, this would be a catastrophe if he came now, and then as I was sitting there getting monitored, I kind of came around to it mentally and I was like, okay, well if he has to come it's okay I can handle it when he comes anytime. I'm past 37 weeks. So it'll be fine If he has to come it's fine. And I kind of said to myself, you know, if he's gonna come when he's gonna come It's fine. I'm ready. I can handle it. He can come anytime now And then my dad had been building us a cradle for him so after that happened, I was like we really have to get this cradle done though because Seriously, this could be any time that the baby comes. So that Sunday I had gone over to my dad's house and we had been working on the cradle together and it was like, not at all ready. I was like, okay, well it's okay, I'm just going to relax, I'm probably going to go past my due date because it's my first, it's no big deal, I'm only 37 and 4, I'm not going to have this baby any time soon. And on the way home from my parents house, I had one contraction that took my breath away while I was driving. It's like, ooh, that was scary. I was like breathing through it It was like really intense and I felt like I was really distracted and I was like, whoa, it's That was a frightening thing to have happen while I'm driving, but then I didn't have any more. So I didn't really think anything of it. Had a normal evening, went to bed, woke up at two o'clock in the morning to a Braxton Hicks, and I really had to pee. So I got up and used the bathroom and I laid back down in bed. And as soon as I laid down, I started having contractions like two to three minutes apart that felt like really, really intense period cramps. And I, told myself this is early labor, it's probably prodromal labor, it's gonna peter out into nothing, just go back to sleep. I tried to go back to sleep and I don't think it could have been more than 10 minutes of me trying to go to sleep before I downloaded a contraction timer on my phone because like I can't sleep, this is too much, it's too close together, I can't sleep at all. And I started timing them but I was still trying to like go to sleep because everyone says you need to go to sleep. In early labor, if it's in the night, you go back to bed. You're not going to stay awake. So I was timing my contractions on my phone, and they were like every two to three minutes, lasting 45 seconds, feeling fairly intense. I was definitely breathing through them a little bit. I could not ignore them. And I felt like a little bit of moisture. I was like, Oh, I should, I'm going to get up and I'm going to make sure that's not my water breaking. And it was my bloody show. And I went to my living room and I was like, I'm going to drink some water and maybe you don't walk around a little bit and it's just going to slow this way down. And I'm going to go into a regular early labor. I guess I knew from the beginning that something was happening and I felt like it was probably the start of labor, but I was just completely convinced it had to be. Very early labor because I was a first time mom and it doesn't happen fast. When you're a first time mom, it's like super long and slow. So I went to the living room and I drank my water and I sat on my couch and my contractions were not changing. There was still 45 seconds. They were still two to three minutes apart. So at about. 2. 45 in the morning. I called my mom because my parents live on Gleamis, which is only accessible by ferry, and the ferry doesn't run at night. And I really wanted her to be there for my birth, so I felt like I needed to let her know that things were happening, just so they could be prepared if they were gonna have to launch the boat and have my dad take her across the channel. So I called her and I was like, I don't know. I feel like things are happening. I'm definitely having contractions. I'm pretty sure I'm in labor, but it's probably still early labor because it's my first so it can't be active labor already. That's ridiculous and she was like, okay But I think you should call the after hours doctor number anyway so I called the after hours doctor number and had them like Pass my message along, however that works, where they send it to the doctor and then it takes a while for them to get back to you. And at about three, my husband got up and he was like, Hey, I thought you just got up because you had another nosebleed or something. What's going on? And I was like, Oh, I'm having contractions. And they're like every two to three minutes. And now they're getting really, really intense. And I'm like starting to vocalize through them. And I'm waiting to hear back from the on call doctor, but we might need to go to the hospital. And he's like, Oh, okay. So that's happening now at three in the morning, cool. And so he was like, you seem like this is intense and I feel like you should just go get dressed while you're waiting for the doctor because you're not gonna go back to bed anyway. I was like, okay. And I went to the bathroom before I got dressed. I sat down, and I had a contraction on the toilet, which is like the worst thing that ever happened to me, and I hated it with every fiber of my being. I was like, this feels terrible, and I hate it. And I started shaking really hard, and I had this thought, like, well you start shaking in transition? And I was like, no, no, no, no, no. Nope. I'm like Two centimeters. This is like nothing. It's the very beginning. I'm just, it's adrenal and it's nothing. And I got really nauseous too. I got like really shaky and nauseous on the toilet. So I got up I washed my hands, I started getting dressed. And I had a contraction that I had to like squat into because I physically couldn't stand through it. And it made me really nauseous again. And I was like, okay, yeah, no, I think we need to go to the hospital. And then I got the call from my doctor and he was like, yeah, I think you need to go to the hospital. I mean it. It could be early labor because they're not lasting that long, but you should definitely go get checked. And that was just the on call doctor, so then I got dressed. And we got in the car, I'd had my bag packed for forever, so we put the bag in the car and I had my, like, towel underneath me in case my water broke, and I had my little bowl in the footwell in case I threw up, and we're driving to the hospital, and it was only a 10 minute drive, which is nice because it was not great. It wasn't as bad as some people say it is, like, it wasn't like the worst experience of my life to be in the car in labor, but it was not fun. And I texted my doctor that I was headed into the hospital because he gave me his personal cell phone number. I think I was his first. Baby from conception through delivery where he was the provider for it. So he was like all excited He was like, I'll definitely be there. Even if I'm not on call. I'm gonna come in for your birth. We just used my family doctor I had thought that maybe I wanted a birth center birth But the closest birth center is Mount Vernon and I didn't think I wanted a half hour drive in labor And my mom had really fast babies. So it was in my head that I might be in heavy labor by the time that we got in a car and drove somewhere. So I didn't like that idea. So I ended up just going with my family doctor and delivering at Island Hospital. And we got to the hospital. It must've been at like 3:30-ish, I think. And I went up to go through the ER and had a contraction and I was standing there and she was like, yeah, just go back. It's fine. Just go back. So I went to the birth center, I think I had, three contractions between my car and getting to the birth center, which is not a very long walk at Island Hospital. And they brought me back, and at this point, I was like, I really want my unmedicated labor, but this is a lot. This is really intense, and I feel like I'm, I need to be at least at a 5, or I don't think I can do this, cause I can't, I don't know how I'm gonna do 8, 9, 10, 20 more hours of this, that sounds like a lot. And they checked me, and I was at an 8. So, it was like, really real, really fast, um, I was group B strep positive, so they wanted to give me antibiotics, and I was fine with it. I had been kind of planning to change my diet, because I just found out a few days before that I was group B strep positive. And I'd wanted to try like dietary changes. I was gonna make my doctor swab me again at 40 weeks and be like, Oh, look, I'm negative. Yeah. I don't need any IVs because I'd really wanted to avoid an IV if I could. but it wasn't a big deal. I hadn't had time to dig into a lot of research about it. So I was like, it's, it's fine. I'll just do the antibiotics. Which would have been no big deal except that the nurse who tried to put my IV in could not find a vein. I wasn't dehydrated. I've never had difficult veins. I don't know why she was having such a hard time, but she poked me, I think it was five times before she got the IV in and she did not stop at all for my contractions. So I'm like sitting there having a contraction. She's like, let me just stab your arm a bunch of times. Like, what are you, what are you doing? What are you doing? So my only nurse I didn't like my entire hospital stay. So that was really rough. It made it really hard. But once the IV was in, it was fairly smooth sailing. If the first little bit of my hospital stay, I can really clearly remember, I was like laughing and joking with the nurses. I was really excited that I was as far along as I was. I had my husband put on my like acoustic calming music that I'd chosen for my birth and was just kind of breathing through my contractions, doing really deep breathing and relaxing. And my husband was like rubbing my thigh for me while I was doing my breathing. And I really liked that. And it was pretty easy. And. I just wanted to sit cross legged. I did not want to do anything else. I was sure that I was going to want to move around a lot. And it was like a big deal for me that I'd be allowed to have lots of mobility. And then once I was there, I was like, nope, I'm going to sit cross legged and I don't want to do anything else. And they had me move from the triage room to the delivery room and I was like, I don't want to walk. Can I just have the baby here? And they were like, nope, you can walk. You're going to walk. It's going to be fine. We'll get you over there. And I was like, well, I don't want to have a contraction where I'm not sitting cross legged. So let's just do it quickly. And got settled into the new room and I was just kind of laboring and at some point my doctor got there. And my mom got there and they were like, Hi, it's good to see you and we're here. And I was like, I'm just having a baby, so don't talk to me. Um. had a really nice nurse who was studying to be a midwife and she was like super kind and super supportive and very much, this is awesome. You're going to have your unmedicated birth. It's going to be fantastic. So it was really nice to have someone who wasn't like, well, you don't get any prizes for not taking the medication. But just really supported and understood why I would want to do that. So she was really nice and at one point she was like, okay, well, I think we should try hands and knees. You wrote in your birth plan that you want to try hands and knees. So I'm going to get you the cub and we're going to go into hands and knees. And I really didn't like that. I feel like I stayed there for probably half an hour or so just because I also didn't like the idea of moving. Um, But it wasn't fun because I was really feeling my contractions in my thighs. It was like in my stomach and then a lot in my thighs. So every time I'd have a contraction, it was like hard to support my weight on my thighs. And during that time I started kind of feeling an urge to push. It wasn't super strong, but I just felt like I was starting to just push during contractions and couldn't entirely control it. And during that time they checked me and they were like, well you're really close, but I don't think you're completely dilated and we want to break your water. And I was like, I don't know, because I feel like by the end of my labor, I was reduced entirely to, I don't know. I remember the nurse, I said, I have to go to the bathroom and the nurse was like, well, do you want to walk to the bathroom or do you want me to bring you a towel? And I just said, I don't know. And my husband was like, Lori, which one do you want to do? And I'm like, I don't know. And I'm standing there kind of thinking like, Ooh, I don't want to pee in a towel. I think I'd rather walk to the bathroom, but also don't know how I'm going to get out of this all fours position and walk to the bathroom. And then the nurse was like, here's a towel, just pee in this towel. And I was like, ah, okay, I guess this is what's happening. So I did. And then I think that's around the time my water broke. Cause that happened right between the doctor saying that they might want to break my water and then. I guess I said yes, or my husband said yes, someone said yes, go ahead and break my water, and I was like, I don't care, you can do whatever to me, I'm just in labor, and I don't really care what happens anymore. so I felt like I didn't have any strong opinion on that one way or the other, and I have no idea who consented, but somebody did, because he came back with the amniotomy hook, and then went to check, and my waters had broken. So I don't, I remember feeling like I had to pee, and then maybe peeing in a towel, or maybe it was my water. I don't know, but I didn't really, I was not aware of it the way that I felt like I was going to be aware of my water breaking. And then after my water had broken, they checked me again, and I was at a 10, and it was time to push, and I did. did not want to be on my hands and knees anymore. It was like too much. So they got me rolled over to my side with a peanut ball between my legs and I started pushing on my side and I have been like super against pushing on my back. I like knew that wasn't what I wanted to do at all. But then, as I was pushing on my side, they were like, if you roll over to your back, you might be able to get a little bit more leverage. And so I just kind of did, and it was actually fine. It didn't feel uncomfortable, or I guess I just didn't really care, because all the pushing positions I wanted to do would have required me to bear weight on my legs, and I was not. going to do that at that point. I feel like I've heard so many people say that the pushing part feels really good, and for me the pushing part felt awful. I hated it. My contractions were like super intense, and yes, the pushing made it feel a little bit better while I was pushing, but then As soon as I wasn't, it went right back to feeling awful and intense when I had to stop to catch my breath. And I might have liked it better, but the nurse that I didn't like had me doing purple pushing, which was not the best, where everyone's like counting to ten and she's like, keep pushing. I'm like, no, this is too much and I don't, it's too hard. And then I felt like a little bit scolded by her when I would stop before the ten seconds to catch my breath if I felt like I needed to take a breathe. But it was fine, and he was descending, and it felt like it was a really long time, but I guess it wasn't actually that long. I do think he crowned for a while. I remember feeling the ring of fire, and then I remember several contractions before he was out. And they were like, reach down, you can feel his head, and they did, and his head was there. But I was like, well, but he's still not coming out. So I don't know, it doesn't really mean that much that I can feel his head. And I had several more contractions like that where he was kind of crowning and they were like, he's almost here, he's almost here. And I was like, it doesn't feel like he's almost here at all, you guys. And then on the last contraction before he was born, my mom, I think it was, said, Lori, look, you can see him. And I looked down and it must have been half of his head was out. And that was like, I was like, Oh, he's really almost here. And then I had one more big push and his whole body just came all out all at once. Cause he was really small. So once his head was out, he was out. And his cord was wrapped around him like three or four times, so my doctor said afterwards that probably the reason my second stage took as long as it did was just because he'd come out and then he'd get sucked back in even more than they usually do just because he was so wrapped up in his cord. But really it was, it was a short second stage for a first time mom. It was. Between, I think it was about 30 minutes, because I think I started pushing just before 7, and he was born at 7. 22. So, it was all really, really fast. It was like five and a half hours total from my first contraction to him being here!

Kiona:

Wow, Lori, Yeah. That sounds super quick and the process of like denial then reassurance then denial than reassurance that, labor's actually happening is so amazing, I think, because it's your body telling you, Hey, it's go time. And then your brain is like, but is it? But it was, which is super cool. I have a couple of questions. So going back to when you were saying that you contacted your dad to make sure that he told your mom that you were in labor. And then you said, Something about a boat. If they did not have access to a ferry, was your dad going to put himself and your mom on a boat and make it to where she gets across to where you are?

Lori:

Yeah, so, they live on Gwimis, which is right off the coast of Anacortes. It's technically one of the San Juans, but it has its own tiny ferry. But the ferry doesn't run at night and the channel is only like a mile. So my parents, among many other people who live on the island, have little boats. That you can cross the channel in, in case you miss the last ferry or something. Because the ferries don't run super late, they go to like 8 during the week. So my dad had the boat all ready to go and he was planning on bringing my mom across, should I need her to come in the middle of the night. Cause she like, really wanted to be there for Seb's birth and I really wanted her there. So that is what ended up happening. He ended up getting the boat out at 3:30 in the morning, and bringing her across on the boat, and then my brother picked her up in town and drove her to the hospital. So, my poor little brother had to wake up at like, 4 in the morning to bring my mom to the hospital.

Kiona:

I think that's honestly so awesome. It's like a superhero move in my mind. Your dad is the hero coming to save the day to make sure that your mom gets to you. I think that's so cool. I'm just imagining, both of their hair, blowing in the wind as they go across this water and get to you. And I just think it's so cool. I don't know. I, I just love the energy that that image brings in my head. I think it's, I think it's awesome. It just shows that your parents truly support you and are excited for you to go into labor and the plan was there. So I think that's great.

Lori:

Yeah, it was really cool. The first ferry was at 6 30 in the morning. So if my mom had caught the first ferry, she would have missed like all of my labor and only been there for part of the pushing. So I was really glad that they had the boat. They were able to get there while she was able to get there earlier.

Kiona:

I think that's so awesome. So you had also mentioned that instead of going to a birth center that was up in Mount Vernon, I believe you said, your doctor gave you their personal number because you were their first client from conception to birth. I just think that's so cool. I just wanted to point out that I think that it's awesome that your doctor wanted to see you full circle, and not just hand you off to somebody else during the birth.

Lori:

Yeah, that was really nice. It was part of why I decided that I was really comfortable sticking with him as my provider. I liked the idea of midwives, but he's my family doctor. So it's someone that I knew and had a preexisting relationship. He's the doctor for my son and my husband and my parents and my brother and my grandma were like all going to the same doctor. So he's like the family doctor for everyone. And, yeah, he was in my preconception appointment before I was even pregnant. He was like, oh, this is so exciting. I can't wait. You'll be my first preconception to birth baby. This is gonna be great. We're gonna have a great time doing this together, and I'll give you my personal number, and you can bother me with stuff, and I'm so excited to do this with you. So that was really cool. He's just a cool guy. I like him.

Kiona:

Yeah, that sounds super awesome. And, that connection that you have with him sounds like it's just so good. And the fact that he knows all of your family and then definitely knows your family history and like what to potentially expect with Sebastian. So I think that that's really cool. I think it's awesome. I love when providers kind of go out of their way to take that extra step to give and provide high quality care to their patients that turn into friends and kind of family, I guess, in a way, but maybe not that close.

Lori:

He was really open to me doing whatever I wanted in my birth. I was like, well, this is how it's going to go and these are the things I want to do and this is my plan. And he was like, okay, cool. We'll do that. Great. See, this is why you're a good care provider for me, because you're just going to let me do what I want to do and be there in case anything goes wrong.

Kiona:

Yeah, let's go ahead and dive into what your postpartum looked like. So you had mentioned that your son was small. In your guest request form, you had mentioned that he was born at four pounds, eight ounces, and was labeled with small for gestational age, which is SGA. How was that moment for you, realizing that he was a pretty small babe?

Lori:

So we had kind of expected that he was going to be small, not that small, but we'd expected he would be a small baby. I was five pounds, three ounces, I think. So I was really small and my brother was born at 32 weeks. So he was like very, very small. But all the women in my family tend to make small babies. Like a big baby in my family is like six pounds. So we kind of knew that he was probably going to be on the smaller side of things. So I wasn't necessarily shocked that he was small. But right after he was born, they tried to hand him right up to me. I wanted immediate skin to skin and had my little labor gown all clipped down for my immediate skin to skin and we were all ready to go for it. And the doctor had pulled him out and was kind of like had him over my abdomen and I reached down toward him and I think I touched him and then I went nope something is wrong. He was like blue. He was not moving He was not crying. I couldn't see any signs of breathing and I was Completely panicked. It was truly the scariest moment of my entire life. I Really thought that he might have been stillborn for a minute. I was so scared and I just remember saying, no, no, no, something's wrong. Something's wrong. Something's wrong. And then, by the time he was born, there were so many people in the room. I was not even remotely aware of them until after they'd all left. The only reason I know that there were like. 10 people in the room when he was born is because my mom and my husband told me it had been shift changed so all the night nurses were there and then all the day shift nurses were there because I was literally the only person in the birth center and the on call doctor was there and my doctor was there because it was the only person in the birth center so I had like 10 people in my room. just hanging out, not because anything was wrong or he'd had heart rates that were concerning or there was any kind of issue that they foresaw, just because there was no one else around. So they all came right in and I didn't care because I didn't even notice. so I remember the other doctor saying we need to cut his cord now. And they took him over to the warmer. And pretty much right away, he was starting to move. He was starting to make little sounds. My husband went right over. My husband, Jordan, did not know anything was wrong. He didn't know until five minutes after Seb was born that things were not going exactly the way that they normally do, which is funny because we talked a lot about how important skin to skin was immediately after the birth to me. And like we'd confirmed that with the nurses, that that was their standard procedure. And then I confirmed it again when I got there. So I feel like he should have known that it was not normal for him to be whisked away like that. But he, he was like caught up in the moment and didn't even realize anything was wrong. So I'm laying there stuck on my bed they've pulled the bottom part out. So my feet are right up against the edge and my butt is right up against the edge and I feel like I'm going to fall off, but I don't even care because my baby's on the other part of the room and I'm like, is he okay? Is he okay? Is he okay? And my husband's not really saying anything cause he doesn't know anything's wrong. My mom's next to me like, I think I heard him cry, he's gonna be alright, everything's gonna be okay. The doctor's just like, casual. He's not acting like anything is super wrong, but he's also not telling me what's happening with my son, which, he's like, right there with me, because there was another doctor to go with the baby, so he stayed with me. So I was like, really freaked out at first. And then, He was starting to cry, and someone finally told me, he needs a little extra oxygen support, but he's gonna be okay. Everything's looking alright. And we're just gonna wait until he can keep his SATs up to bring him back over to you, but he's just getting a little extra oxygen right now. And the song that I've been singing to him while I was pregnant was You Are My Sunshine, and my mom was like, you should sing to him. So I was trying to sing to him, and in the meantime, the doctor is like pulling on the umbilical cord a little bit to start to get my placenta to detach because I had said that I really didn't want to get a Pitocin shot afterwards if we could avoid it. And I think I might have ended up with one, but I don't know, because I was just like, Can you stop? That's uncomfortable. My baby's not here. At one point, I remember asking him to put part of the bed up because I felt like I was going to fall off because I was like right up there at the edge. I was like, Can you put more of the bed up? This doesn't feel staBle. and my placenta was eventually delivered. I think I pushed a little bit, but I was like really focused on my baby being on the other side of the room. So I wasn't paying a lot of attention. And I distinctly remember that pulling on the cord a little bit to get it to detach was like super uncomfortable. And I did not like that at all. And I just wanted that to be over. But after my placenta was delivered, I got to look at it, which was exciting. I really wanted to be able to see what it looked like. And I mean, I didn't know what I was looking for at the time. So presumably it was all good. But he didn't show me anything that looked alarming or anything. He was like, wow, they're so cool. And then whisked it off somewhere else. In retrospect, I wish I knew about placenta prints. I decided I didn't want to encapsulate, but I kind of wish I could have had a print done. I didn't have anything where I was like, I was very realistic with it. with myself and realized that there was no way with a brand new baby that I was going to have the motivation to plant a trio for my placenta. It was just going to live in my freezer for two years. And then right now I'd be like, Oh, I have a really old placenta that I should probably do something with. So I didn't want to do that. So they just medical wasted it. But now I have a friend who does placenta prints and they are the most gorgeous thing that I've ever seen. And I wish I had one. Anyway, that was a tangent.

Kiona:

No, no, you're good. I do have a question. So you said that he was pulled over and needed a little bit of extra oxygen. How long was he being under CPAP. So like CPAP is continuous positive airway pressure, which is what doctors just provide, where it's not necessarily a mask over the baby's face, but it's like just oxygen in the face of the baby. How, how long was he over there?

Lori:

Okay, so I think he was away from me for about 20 minutes. It was pre 8 a. m. when they gave him to me. And they didn't bring the CPAP in, I think, until just after they brought him to me. He was just on an oxygen mask. So they'd had him over there on oxygen and I really wanted to meet him and the nurse finally brought him over. I guess he just had taken longer and they'd called up to respiratory to bring the CPAP down and they decided they were going to bring him to me and have him with the oxygen mask on, on my chest, which like rankled me a little bit at the time and still does. If you could do that, could you not have done it? Clearly your oxygen is in fact portable. Could you not have just done this from the very beginning? But that's okay. Hospital policies and I'm not going to change them retrospectively in the moment of my son's birth. So they brought him over and they put him in my chest and he was really tiny. It was, it was crazy how small he is. It, the picture I sent you is of him right after he was born, just being like the tiniest baby I've ever seen. And like everyone who worked with him was like, wow, this is like the tiniest baby that I've ever worked with. so they brought him over to me. I don't, I did not get my skin to skin. They brought him over to me all wrapped up and I did not have the presence of mind in that moment to ask them to unwrap him. And that's one of the few things that if I could go back and change it, I would really like to have asked them to unwrap him and just cover us in a warm blankie so he could have been skin to skin with me right there at the beginning. But he ended up wrapped up and then with a warm blankie on us both on my chest. He didn't latch right away. I don't think we successfully latched until they moved me into my postpartum room. But I got to snuggle him and they brought the CPAP down and while he was on my chest, the respiratory therapist put it on. It was just the nasal cannula kind. And he wore that until about noon that day, I think, is when he was keeping his SATs up on his own. His oxygen saturation levels were in the high 90s where they want them. Whenever they'd take off the CPAP cannula before that, he'd drop down into the 80s, so. But by noon, he was keeping his SATs up by himself. He was having some blood sugar issues and some minor temperature regulation issues. so, They did have to do a lot of heel pricks, which I felt like was really traumatic for all of us. It was very clearly painful for him when they'd, prick his heel and they'd have to, like, squeeze the heel and milk out blood. It's a whole thing. Anybody who's been through that knows how awful it is. And he ended up having heel pricks. At least twice a day the whole time we were in the hospital. so he wasn't keeping his blood sugar up that night, the night nurse, who was the same nurse who poked me like five times to get my IV and who I didn't like super well. She suggested that I start supplementing with formula. I really hadn't wanted to do that, but she was like, we want to keep his blood sugar up so that we can make sure that he can get released. Cause we have to have, cause they have to have the. two readings that are high enough in sequence, right? Or maybe it's three. And he would get, he'd have a fine one, and then he'd have a low one, and then he'd be back to fine, and then he'd be back to low. So I started giving him a little bit of formula. And once he got enough blood sugar readings, I started triple feeding, which was awful in the hospital. I felt like I never slept. I was just feeding him all the time. And he ended up spending most of that night skin to skin with me. The nurse was just like, just keep him in your bed with you. He just needs to be on your skin. I'll set you up so that you're safe to sleep with him on your chest, which was really nice because a lot of nurses wouldn't do that. So that was a good thing about her. And then his temperature readings got up and everything was looking pretty good and then he developed jaundice. So we spent a total of three days in the hospital. He was born on a Monday and we went home at midday on a Thursday. And that was, that was probably the hardest part. They had something that they called a wallaby, which is like. the billy light, but in a little flat pad form. So I could put the wallaby on my chest, then put him on the wallaby, and then bring the light over the big stand alone light over and shine it on him. And then that allowed me to hold him most of the time, so he wasn't having to just be in the little hospital bassinet. So we did that, and that was good. And since he was so small, he just, he had a lot of problems latching in the hospital. He had a lot of problems successfully transferring milk. He just wasn't getting very much, and he wasn't, really staying on the breast very well in the hospital. So that was really hard. And I was doing a lot of pumping and feeding and the flanges for the hospital pump were the wrong size and then the neither of the flanges that came with my pump actually fit. It was all too big. So it was really uncomfortable. So we did that. And then right after we got home. He was released on Thursday, and we came home, and like, as soon as we got home, I felt like our breastfeeding difficulties pretty much resolved. He started latching way better right away after we got home, and I think maybe it was just getting away from the stress of the hospital. We were both more relaxed, and that he started breastfeeding much better. That night was crazy, because obviously the cradle my dad was building was not at all finished yet, so The day he was born that morning, my dad had ordered him a travel bassinet and had it delivered to our house from Amazon. So there was like a travel bassinet waiting there, but we didn't think to unpack it right away when it arrived because my husband was mostly at the hospital with me. And so we, I think I'd had him unpack it. Like that morning, the morning of the day we were released. He'd gone home to feed the dog and the cat, and I think I had him unpack it then. But that night, it still smelled so strongly of a weird chemical smell. I was like, I can't put my teeny tiny little baby, who's now down to four pounds four ounces, at release from the hospital, into this smelly bassinet. That's not gonna happen. So we figured we'd move his crib out of his nursery and into our bedroom, and it would be tight, but it would be fine. But we built the crib in his room. So when we're trying to get ready for bed, the night we get home from the hospital, my husband tries to pull the crib out of the room, and it physically can't fit through the door. It is just too big to fit out. So then we go, okay, my husband has a couch in his office, and we can move this, fold out couch that folds into an uncomfortable futon into the nursery, and then I'll sleep in there. So we tried to move this uncomfortable futon, but he hadn't gotten it into the room by himself. It's like stupid heavy, and we didn't have anyone who could come and help us, at the last minute at 9 p. m. on a Thursday night. So he's like trying to move it out, and he gets like halfway out of the office, and it gets stuck in the door frame, and it won't come any further. So that sat half in and half out until my dad could come and help put it back away the next day. And I ended up sleeping on a pile of couch pillows on the floor of my newborn's nursery. And by sleeping, I meant being awake most of the night because he clusterfed his entire first month. And I think I got two hours of sleep that whole night in 20 minute segments. And by the end of it, I was like, what, what have I done? What choice have I made? I very much remember being awake at about two in the morning like this was a terrible mistake and I'm going to die. so that was, it was tough, but it was a little bit better the next day. I was not eating enough in the first week or two. I lost all of the weight I'd gained in pregnancy in a week and a half. I was back to my original weight preconception, but it was just because I wasn't eating anything because I never felt hungry and I, every night I would have a panic when it was time to put him to bed because I just knew he wasn't going to sleep. He would sleep maybe an hour and a half at his very longest stretch. Usually sometime between two and four in the morning. I'd get an hour to an hour and a half of sleep. He was almost always up and nursing nearly continuously until midnight or 2 a. m. And then it would be like half hour to an hour stretches most of the rest of the night. So I would just be in, it would get dark and I'd feel panicky about how I wasn't going to be able to sleep. And I realized part of that was just that I wasn't eating much. So it was low blood sugar. So something I tell all my clients now is to make snack stations wherever you're going to feed your baby and just eat a snack anytime your baby is eating. Eat something and drink something and that was really really helped me My appetite came back about a week after I did that and then I gained back a hundred percent of the weight I gained in My pregnancy and I'm still there to this day Because I think my body got really mad at me for not eating for a while and now it's like as long as you're Breastfeeding I'm gonna hold on to this weight And so that was really rough. I had a lot of nipple pain in my first month of breastfeeding, but I was like, well, it's probably normal and it's not like bad. They're not like cracked and bleeding. So this is probably fine. But he just never went more than two hours without breastfeeding. And he'd breastfeed for at least 30 minutes at a time. And more often it was once an hour. So I'd feed him for 30 minutes. It's half, half an hour where I wasn't feeding him and then be back to feeding him again. And eventually I was just so exhausted by that it was too much and I felt like I couldn't do it anymore. So I went to a location consultant and was like, I just, I can't, I can't do this. It's too much. He won't stop cluster feeding. And at that appointment they diagnosed him with a tongue tie. And they clipped his tongue tie, and at that same appointment, and then within about two weeks, he wasn't doing that anymore. He was eating much more normally, my nipples stopped hurting, I just felt so much better, and breastfeeding became something that felt, manageable. And then he could space it out to, sleeping for two hours during the daytime. He's, he was such a bad sleeper. I mean, He was a baby, so he was exactly the sleeper that he needed to be, but he just couldn't sleep without physical contact with me. He took all of his naps in a wrap until he was seven or eight months old, and I finally decided that we were just going to have to transition to the crib, even if it meant some crying, which it did, and it was terrible. Because I tried every single thing. Gentle method I could find online and none of them worked on him But my back was so sore from having him in the carrier all the time and he ended up I was sure that I didn't want to bed share. I was like positive the AAP says don't do it So I'm not gonna do it and I won't even consider it and it's not gonna happen and at about six weeks I just could not function on that small an amount of sleep anymore. I felt like I was gonna fall asleep holding him And he was going to fall down the edge of the couch and suffocate or something. So I finally gave in and started bed sharing with him. And it was a really good decision for our family. I read a bunch of books and every article I could find online and then did all of the things that they said to do. And it worked really well. He, I don't know if he actually slept that much longer, but I was not having to get up and down. And he certainly wouldn't do the thing where we'd spend. four hours before we fell asleep of me just nearly constantly feeding him and him never being quiet for more than 20 minutes and that was a big big deal for my mental health.

Kiona:

There's a lot to unpack here. I have so many questions. Going back to when you birthed him and how he was needing to be on oxygen and how he still needed to have the CPAP for a while, were they concerned at all about his lung development at that time? Even though he was technically termed because he was born past 37 weeks, but with him having SGA, the small for gestational age, were they concerned about his lung development?

Lori:

My doctor never brought it up. I actually, I feel really grateful that he didn't end up in the NICU. I think that if we'd been at a hospital with a NICU, he for sure would have spent some time. In the NICU, but as it was, all he ever said to me was, Well, he just needs a little extra support right now, but he's gonna be fine. And we'll wean him off of it soon. I'm sure he'll be done by the end of the day and just on normal air. Nobody ever brought up to me any concerns about underdeveloped lungs, or That he'd have ongoing breathing issues or that he might need any sort of specialist care. They were just like, we're just going to give him this and it's going to give him the extra support he needs and then he's going to be fine. And I don't know how I got so lucky to have that happen because I feel like I've had friends with babies who were realistically probably in a way better place at birth and ended up in the NICU for 24 hours. So I guess it's just because my doctor was really confident that he was healthy and fine and the hospital didn't have a Nikki to transfer him to and so they just kind of rolled with it and But I feel like I really lucked out because he didn't he didn't need a ton of extra support But it would have been really awful to have him away from me during that time.

Kiona:

Yeah. And so my next question is throughout your pregnancy, did your provider ever say that you were measuring small, like where your fundal heights always lined up or were they on the smaller side?

Lori:

I was Right on the mark or a week behind Most of my pregnancy and I kind of jumped back in Back and forth a little bit. I think the last few weeks, I was about a week behind pretty consistently. But we weren't super concerned about it because my mom had been with me. Her due date got moved back. They don't do this anymore, but apparently when my mom was pregnant with me, she got her due date moved back four or five times because she kept measuring too small and they were like, Oh, well, we must have miscalculated. No, she was originally due August 23rd. And by the time I was born, I think they'd moved her due date to September 15th with me. So just because she was measuring small and they just kind of kept saying, well, we'll push it back. We'll push it back. We'll just push it back.

Kiona:

Okay. Yeah, that is interesting. so, Leaning more into your postpartum and how you had all of these concerns and struggles with, even getting any sleep and being sleep deprived, did you experience especially with having some anxiety, throughout your pregnancy, did you experience or have you or are you still experiencing any, postpartum mood disorders or anxieties?

Lori:

I never got diagnosed with anything and it was never bad. I definitely did have one day when my mom and I are like best friends. We don't fight about things, but I'd gotten into a little fight with her. That realistically was kind of a little fight, but at the time it felt like a world shattering, my mom and I may never talk again fight. And I got really, really depressed that day for a few hours. But that's the only time I remember feeling genuinely depressed. I had a lot of anxiety and kind of fear at bedtime. Like I said, that was really bad. And I did have some Relatively intense, intrusive thoughts early on, in the first month or two. Like anytime I had to take Seb, if we were in the garage where we have a concrete floor, this is a little bit graphic, I guess, which I just say in case anybody listening doesn't want it, like wants to skip ahead 20 seconds. I would have really intense intrusive thoughts where I very vividly pictured me dropping him and his head cracking open on the concrete floor every time I had to carry him in the garage. It was like really intense and I just have little intrusive thoughts like that that would come up and I knew what they were and I recognized them because I've dealt a little bit with that in the past with my anxiety. So I was really aware of it. For what it was and had some coping mechanisms to breathe through it and just Remind myself that I'm catastrophizing. That's a worst case scenario. It's not gonna happen. This isn't a real thing That's happening right now and just take some deep breaths and get through it I did a lot of work with my therapist before he was born because I knew that I was gonna be a little extra susceptible Especially to postpartum anxiety So I definitely had it come up, but I feel like for the most part I was just kind of able to recognize when it was happening and get past it, especially once I got my blood sugar issues under control.

Kiona:

Yeah, and that's something that not a lot of people talk about, the intrusive thoughts that actually do come about, especially when you have a baby and you are doing all the things to keep that baby alive, as well as trying to keep yourself alive with on two hours of really broken sleep, like intrusive thoughts come to the forefront more often and they are more susceptible of coming through. So thank you for sharing that portion of your thoughts, because they happen, and I want listeners to know that, yes, they happen, but I do encourage people that are listening that if they do happen more often than not, go seek help. Talk to your family. Talk to your friends. Let people know what you're thinking of because those intrusive thoughts can lead to, postpartum psychosis where you're afraid and paranoid all the time. So it's, it's good that you had experience and had spoken to your therapist beforehand about kind of things to look out for and what to pay attention to and like how you've handled anxiety in the past. So everybody is a little bit different, with how they're prepared for things like that. But yeah, I just wanted to bring that up because I think that it's hard to label or get diagnosed with postpartum depression, anxiety, or any other mood disorders because there's such a large gap between the time a child is born and the time a parent is seen. You know, in most cases with in hospital providers, it's around six weeks and unless you fight for something sooner than that but even after the six week mark, Sometimes postpartum, anxiety and mood disorders don't pop up right away. Some people don't experience them until six months later, a year later, or in my case, I was experiencing it throughout the first year and I couldn't even pinpoint it. I was never officially diagnosed, but after a year of, caring for my son, my second child, I looked back and I was like, Whoa, I had postpartum. depression and anxiety. But I was always talking about it with family and speaking about it. But some people don't think to talk about it. So were you talking to Jordan about it? Like some thoughts that you had and like how you were feeling

Lori:

Yeah. We were definitely checking in with each other. I felt like it was important to just kind of make sure that we were both doing okay and talk about it. I also was talking to my therapist regularly. It was really important to me. I think I'd scheduled out, the first two months worth of my son's life with appointments every two weeks before he was even born because, like, I know I need to do this. And if I don't schedule them in advance, I'll probably get overwhelmed and not want to. And it was hard because, If he wasn't asleep, maybe I was sitting there trying to talk to my therapist and I can hear him crying in the background. And I did them all virtually. I guess one benefit of COVID is that now we all have access to virtual therapy. So you don't have to leave your house and you can talk to your therapist while nursing your baby and holding him and keeping them calm if you need to. So it was really good. I was checking in with her really regularly and talking to my mom about what was going on with me. And I have a good friend who's. dealt with depression and anxiety and a lot of mental health issues her whole life, and she was very much there for me to talk things through too. I had a lot of supports in place. Before he was born, because I was really aware of the fact that my anxiety was going to predispose me to, increased risk of PMADs of those postpartum mood and anxiety disorders. But just a plug for listeners is the perinatal support warm line is a fantastic place to turn to if you don't have anyone in your life who you feel like you can talk to about those feelings, because it can be hard to bring them up to your partner, especially if your partner, my partner also has anxiety, and I'm quite sure that he had, some postpartum depression that he was dealing with. We did end up seeing our doctor at one point about it, but, Just to have somebody that you can talk to. But yeah, I was also really lucky because my doctor was my son's doctor. So I felt like I got to see my doctor a ton between my birth and six weeks. And at every appointment he was taking the time to check in with me and ask me how I was doing as well. But it's also I know I'm not the only one who does this. I tend to get to my doctor's office and Just completely minimize all my problems. You kind of have to know me and be able to tell that something's not right with me. A lot of times to know that something's not right with me because I tend to say, Oh no, everything's going great. I'm feeling really good. It's all awesome. And, Really, I'm sitting here, I haven't slept in two weeks, I'm so exhausted that I barely know which way is up, and I haven't been eating, and I'm so anxious, and I keep having these intrusive thoughts, and I'm not just gonna say that, and I don't know why I won't say that, because I clearly should, and that's how we get help. For whatever reason, I get in front of doctors and I just am like, Oh, but I'm actually, I'm okay. I know I came to you because I have an injury, but actually I'm probably fine. So maybe we don't need to worry about it after all.

Kiona:

Yeah, I would say that's really common and you're definitely not the only person that experiences that. I want to say there is a term for that. I don't know if it's called like white coat syndrome or something like that, where you get in front of a provider and minimize everything, you know, and say, it's actually fine. I'm overreacting or whatever. When really, that's how you get support. And I think a lot of it has to do with the unconscious but also very conscious and apparent societal pressures of needing to love your baby and be so fine and happy after you have a baby and everything's going so well, like you wanted this. There's a lot of stigma about the hard stuff. So, Yeah, that's part of the reason why I created this podcast is so we can talk about the hard stuff and have it be normalized and humanized because what we see online or in social media or the statistics of numbers don't give a face or voice to the things that are going on, the things that are happening in everyday life. So, I appreciate you for mentioning the perinatal support, warm line because it's a good warm line and they also have support for partners Which is very important because, like you had just said, it's not just the birthing person that experiences the depression. Partners can too.

Lori:

And I feel like nobody is paying attention to that. We do the screening tool with postpartum birthing people, but we often don't even bother to screen partners. And when we do, it's answering a couple of questions, and it's really easy to have that moment of well, it's not so bad. This probably isn't happening that often. You're not getting a high enough score, but you actually are struggling. I don't know. If you're struggling, tell somebody that you're struggling.

Kiona:

Yeah, that's a, it's way easier said than done, of course, but that's the way you get support is letting people know. And sometimes it's really hard to tell what's causing the feeling of being off. Was it the fact that you just birthed the whole human and you now have to take care of someone? Or is it because you're sleep deprived and haven't eaten and you lost a ton of weight? There's so many moving factors to how postpartum actually plays out.

Lori:

Absolutely. That's a crazy time.

Kiona:

Absolutely crazy time. Yeah, so Lori, thank you for sharing your story with me. I have three final closing questions for you if you feel like you've had the chance to mention all that you wanted to talk about today.

Lori:

Yeah. Oh, the only other thing I'll say is that, um, I wanted my son so bad and I felt like a connection to him my whole pregnancy, especially after he started moving. I would feel his little movements and I just loved him so much. And I remember crying when I was singing, you are my sunshine to him because I was like, Oh my gosh, you really never will know how much I love you. Cause I love you so much. And you're not even here yet. And as soon as he was born, I did, I just, I loved him so much. He was my little boy and I absolutely adored him. But at the same time that that was true, I also felt like I brought a total stranger into my house. I did feel connected to him and I did feel love for him, but trying to take care of him, it was a tiny stranger, and as much as I loved him in this kind of theoretical construct of I've wanted you my whole life, and I'm so happy you're here, and I really love you kind of a way, it's really hard because it's a new person that you don't know. So I simultaneously I guess felt like really closely bonded to him, but also it's not just easy, you don't just, Have them in your arms, and you're like, Oh, I've known you my whole life, and you're the other half of my soul, and all of that stuff. So if you don't feel that right away, I, I feel like that's really normal, and we never talk about it. Even if you don't feel like any of the love stuff either, like it, It comes with time. You get to know them and they develop a personality as they get a little bit older and are able to do things that aren't eat and sleep. It'll come with time, but it doesn't always come right away, I guess.

Kiona:

Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. I agree with that and they're totally valid experiences and it's totally okay to not connect with your baby right away, in my opinion, because you just literally opened your soul, to birth this human and to be exhausted and depleted while still having the coexisting emotions of loving this little being that just came out of you right next to, oh my god, this is so hard and I'm exhausted and what did I do? That's life.

Lori:

Absolutely.

Kiona:

that's what it is. You know, that's, it's hard. But it's worth it.

Lori:

It gets better, too. It does. If you're in that, early part and it's hard. They get older and it gets better.

Kiona:

Yeah, but then it gets hard in different ways. Not to bring it down, it gets hard in different ways. But then it gets better in different ways, like the interactions that you have when they become their own little human, and the personalities that they develop, and the faces that they make, and the sounds they make. All the things. All the things. I also did want to ask one more question before I get into my final three, which is What part of your experience made you think, Hey, I'm going to become a birth doula too.

Lori:

I think the thing that called to me the most well, I mean, I just love birth in general and it was like the coolest experience. I mean, it was really hard and I definitely didn't want to repeat it right away. Like right after I had my son, I was like, I know I want another one, but I also really, really don't want to ever do that again. But it was still really cool. And I really thought it was like just this amazing experience, but, I really wished that I could have had someone there, especially right after my son was born to just tell me what was happening with him and just help reassure me and someone who wasn't intimately connected to my baby, who could just like calmly help me through that early part, right after he came out, that would have been really helpful. So I think that's part of what made me want someone that, and I did have struggles with lactation. He did have that tongue tie and I waited a whole month to go in and get help with it. And that month would have been so much easier if I would have been More aggressive and seeking out help if I would have found someone to help me in the first couple of weeks and I wish I'd had someone with more experience who was checking in on me and knew what to look for and could have told me like, Hey, it doesn't have to be this hard. You should go and get some help. People can do something. This is not just what it has to look like. So I guess that was really the part of my experience that inspired me the most to become a doula so that I can be that person who's. calm and able to just keep you aware of what's going on and provide support through the really hard and potentially scary bits and remind you that help is out there and help you find the people that you need to get the support you're maybe missing.

Kiona:

Yeah, I think that's beautiful. I like that that's what pulled you in. So my final three questions that I have for you. My first question is, what is one piece of advice that you would give to all pregnant people to prepare for labor, birth, and postpartum?

Lori:

I think the biggest thing that helped me was just having really practiced a lot of breathing and relaxation. Even if you're planning to get an epidural as soon as you possibly can, you will almost certainly have to deal with some contractions before it happens and being able to really relax your body into them I feel like makes such a big difference. I had one contraction when I tensed up really bad at the beginning because I forgot to take my deep breath and I was like, ah, it's another one. And it was like really close to the last one. And the nurse was like, Take your breath. You need to take a deep breath. And once I took that deep breath and let go of the tension, it was so much better. But like that first little bit when I was like, My whole body was all tense. It was far and away the worst pain of my entire labor. So practice deep breathing and relaxing.

Kiona:

That's a great tip. That is a great tip, for sure. My next question is, What is one resource that we can share with our listeners on your behalf?

Lori:

Yeah. Let's see. Just perinatal support. Washington in general is, has a ton of resources for people who are having any sort of mental health issues at all during pregnancy or postpartum. And they are fantastic. Bradley method was a really great birth class for me. I was really happy with it. It's Long and kind of intense was like 12 weeks. And so it's a lot of your time, but if you really want to have an unmedicated birth, I think it's especially good for that. And for partners too. And yeah, podcasts like this one were fantastic for me with, just learning more about all the different things that birth can look like made me feel a lot more confident. And I really liked the Penny Simpkin book, The Birth Partner. That one was really, it's an easy read. I feel like it's great for partners and pregnant people, and it's a little bit more accessible than a lot of the like, 800 page books that I was reading that goes super in depth on pregnancy. Yeah.

Kiona:

Yeah. No, I think all of those resources are great, and easily accessible. You know, like the Birth Partner, you can find online anywhere. They probably even sell it in some bookstores that are local to the listeners. And even though the Bradley Method class is long, I think it's great to mention because having a longer course is actually really good because it gives you more time to, Go in depth with all of the information that's being provided, as well as figure out what works for you. So, yeah, I love those. And so, my final question to you is, if you could describe your birth with one word, what would it be?

Lori:

fast.

Kiona:

Fast, yeah.

Lori:

It was all so much faster than I thought it would be. I, I feel like I didn't have any time to process that it was happening before it was done. So it was like I spent weeks feeling like I'm not pregnant anymore, and I'm so sad I'm not pregnant anymore. And how did this happen so quickly? I like, I was, I was, My mom had fast labors, and she was like, you're probably gonna have a fast labor, and you should be ready for that. And I was like, no, I'm gonna be ready for a long labor, so I'm not let down if it's not quick. So I was sure that I was gonna have hours of early labor, and I'd spend like most of a day baking a birthday cake for my son, and watching TV shows, and going on long walks. And that was like very much the space I was in. So it was My overall impression is fast, so much faster than I thought it would be.

Kiona:

Yeah, absolutely. And based on the story that I just heard, I think it's a great description and like a great word to use. Well, Lori, thank you so much for coming on the podcast today and sharing your story with me. I am excited to share with the world and just help educate people through storytelling. So thank you.

Lori:

Yeah, thank you so much for having me. You're doing really important work, and I love podcasts like this. It's really an honor to get to be here.

Kiona:

Interviewing Lori for this episode was a lot of fun. I loved hearing about how strong of a support she got from her family. Including how her parents would go through the process of getting on a boat to get across the water in order to attend her birth. I also think that Lori brought attention to a lot of important things throughout her story. Genetics play a big role in the size of your baby. And it's important to recognize that she was very aware and prepared for what her anxiety could look like postpartum, because she had some experience prior to getting pregnant. So make sure you pay attention to how your emotions and your anxiety are prior to pregnancy and do your due diligence and getting prepared to make sure that your transition into parenthood is as smooth as possible. Lori. Thank you so much for sharing your story with me and the BAWKI community. I know that many of these listeners are going to be learning something new after listening to your story. And for you, that's listening right now. Don't forget to go join the birth. As we know it, podcast community on Facebook. In the group we have a lot of fun with asking questions and talking about all things about the podcast. So don't miss out and join in on the fund by going to birthasweknowitpodcast.com/facebook And if you want to support the production of this podcast, you can do that by joining us on Patrion, go to birthasweknowitpodcast.com/support and join the community. For next week's episode, I had the awesome opportunity to interview Kayla, Tschumper owner and founder of My Birth Choices. She shares her three birth stories of her girls and how that led her to creating this business. So don't hesitate to tune in and get all of the juicy details.. All right. That's all I got for now. Talk to you soon.

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Kiona Nessenbaum

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