Birth As We Know It ™️-Birth Stories and Experiences

58-Kayla Tschumper-3 Vaginal Births-Kennedy, Claire & Emelia-My Birth Choices

• Kiona Nessenbaum • Episode 58

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In this episode, Kayla shares 3 personal birth stories as well as how experiencing a precipitous unplanned home birth led her to have a planned homebirth the third time around. She also touches on the breastfeeding challenges she experienced with her first two kiddos and the decisions she made to shift her experience when she breastfed her third. 

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Disclaimer: This podcast is intended for educational purposes only with no intention of giving or replacing any medical advice. I, Kiona Nessenbaum, am not a licensed medical professional. All advice that is given on the podcast is from the personal experience of the storytellers. All medical or health-related questions should be directed to your licensed provider. 

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Kiona:

Welcome to Birth As We Know It, a podcast that is dedicated to recognizing the many different ways that birth unfolds. I am your host, Kiona Nessenbaum. I have experienced birth as a doula, a student midwife, a birth assistant, and as a mother of three amazing children of my own. After attending over 140 births, I've realized that each birth experience is truly unique, so make sure you subscribe and join me as we are guided through many different birth experiences through the lens of the storyteller. Please be aware that some of these stories can be triggering to hear, so feel free to pause, take a breath, and come back and listen whenever you're ready. With that said, let's prep ourselves to dive deep and get detailed about what really happens in the birth space. As a reminder, this podcast is intended for educational purposes only, and has no intention of giving or replacing any medical advice. All advice that is given on the podcast is from the personal experiences of the storytellers. All medical or health related questions should be directed to your licensed provider. Before we dive into the episode today. I want to remind all of you amazing listeners, that there is also an amazing Facebook group just for us. If you're listening right now, that means you are part of the BAWKI community. And as a member of the BAWKI community. You need to be a member of this Facebook group. In this group, we connect on things related to the podcast, as well as just answering questions and being humans together. So no need to overthink it. Just go to birthasweknowitpodcast.com/facebook to join in on the fun. And if you want to take it one step further, you can head over to birthasweknowitpodcast.com/support and become a patron. By becoming a patron. You're telling me that you support all of the work I'm putting into the production of this podcast. And you're supporting that we are here learning together through our genuine interest in making connections through individuals, personal stories. So keeping amazing. And I look forward to connecting with you on a deeper level. All right. Let's dive into the episode. Hello everybody and welcome back to the Birth as We Know It. Podcast. Today I have on Kayla Tschumper and she is the founder and owner of My Birth Choices, which was created in September of 2023. So we're going to dive into that. But first, we're going to dive into her three very different birth experiences so welcome, Kayla. Thanks so much for coming on.

Kayla:

I am so excited to be here. Thanks for having me.

Kiona:

Yeah, of course. I'm really excited to dive into this because when I was reading your guest request form, you definitely gave me a little bit of a hook of an interest with your precipitous birth, but we'll get there. so before we do that, let's go ahead and just have you tell us a little bit about yourself and who's in your family.

Kayla:

Sure. So, like you said, my name is Kayla. I am a mom to three beautiful girls. I am married to my husband, Lucas. we both started out as registered nurses, you know, gosh, a little over a decade ago. And I have kind of woven out of that path, kind of did a stay at home mom journey, which led to a birth work journey as both a doula and home birth midwife assisting. And then, yeah, now formulating my own business. So that's a little bit about me. we live in Rochester, Minnesota, and yeah, we really like to enjoy all that Minnesota has to offer with our four seasons, lots of climate change.

Kiona:

Yeah, I'm happy that you get to experience the four seasons because in Seattle we do, but our summers are very short, so when they're here, we got to take advantage.

Kayla:

Yes. That's the time that's like worth taking PTO because it's sunny outside. Gotta go.

Kiona:

Yeah, exactly.

Kayla:

Yes. You need it.

Kiona:

absolutely. So let's go ahead and dive in to your first pregnancy and birth experience. Let's talk a little bit about your conception process. Was your first, Kennedy is her name, was Kennedy planned? Was she unexpected? Tell me all the things.

Kayla:

Yes, absolutely. So we were planning on trying, to be pregnant for the first time. And we said, well, we're just really open. Let's just start trying. And, we were very fortunate. We were pregnant the next month. And so, it, it didn't take a lot of time and, and we were really thrilled and surprised, honestly. We just had never done this before. So probably like a lot of most first time parents are, you know, taken aback a little bit, but super excited.

Kiona:

Yeah, I think that's so awesome. And when you found out you were pregnant, how soon did any symptoms hit you? Was it like, Oh, I peed on a stick and then next day I'm feeling all the things or did it take you a while?

Kayla:

Yeah, I was working as a nurse at the time in an inpatient pediatric hospital ward And I remember we found out we were pregnant I mean, you know, I think it took a couple of weeks of having this huge secret just glowing smiling all the time Right, so I would say there's about two weeks of just complete bliss and then I remember sometimes you have to work in independent assignments where you stay in one room with your pediatric patient. And I remember having to ask for bathroom breaks all the time. Like, I really need to go to the bathroom again. which was just weird to have to like alert someone to come and stand in my room so that I could go use the bathroom like so many times on a shift But that was my first symptom was just like having to pee a lot. and then, the nausea really did set in pretty quick. I, I think probably around four weeks, post taking a test and knowing I was pregnant. And that lasted for me, with vomiting, all the way until 20 weeks. So, that was pretty intense and there are some things I know now that I kind of wish I would have done differently just to be more kind to myself of, you know, better nourishment and a lot more warmth and just slowing down that I think could have helped, mitigate some of that nausea. But that was definitely like my big sign that I definitely am having that first trimester enduring.

Kiona:

yeah. And so you said that it lasted until about 20 weeks. Were you at any point diagnosed with like hyperemesis or was it just Random, but lasted up until 20 weeks.

Kayla:

Yeah, and it was not hyperemesis. Thankfully, if you are a survivor of that, just my heart goes out to you because wow, it's such a toll. yeah, feeling sick and crummy and tired and nauseous and puking is one thing. But, thankfully, no, it was not more than that. It was just 20 weeks of kind of random, you know, certain smells would be really triggering. I remember like anything with like fish, you know, if my husband was making something, and certain synthetic fragrances. So we thought we liked this little peach plug in thing And I came home one night Opened the door went back out Threw up and said get those out of the house My husband put them in the garage, which he thought had taken care of it And then the next day I got in the car to go to work walked past them in the garage Threw up again. I was like, I told you to get rid of them. I thought I, you know, getting them outside would be enough. No, nope. They needed to be gone.

Kiona:

Yeah. That is officially trash now. Get it out. ha

Kayla:

Yes. Yep.

Kiona:

Being in the medical world, did you prep yourself in any specific way for your birth? did you take any childbirth education classes, read any books, talk to friends in the field? What was that like for you?

Kayla:

Yeah, it's kind of interesting, like, 50 50 how the medical world encouraged me and how it discouraged me. So when I was in nursing school, I stumbled upon the infamous documentary, The Business of Being Born, and I was in nursing school learning a lot about, you know, pregnancy and stuff when I was in my maternity classes. But I was so fascinated by this different take that was presented through the business of being born. And, so then I remembered that. That was very profound and impactful for when I was pregnant for the first time. kind of, I had a little bit of distrust with the medical system and pregnancy and birth. And so I would say what I tried to do then is steer myself towards, well, if I am starting to align more with birth as natural and physiologic, I just need to read about it. So I would read and I would use my shifts, downtime. So some of those long overnights where there's like really slow shifts, I would just read and devour hundreds of birth stories. Because my motto was, if it becomes familiar to me, it won't be scary to me. It won't be foreign to me. I'll be noticing patterns within each birth story because, as you know, you are the prime example of telling these stories that are all so unique. But there are some patterns that you see with early labor versus active labor versus transition. So I used a lot of time to be reading stories. also, Anytime I would tell someone I was expecting, we would usually, at some point, shift to talking about their birth stories. And I was really careful for like, I actually would use, you know, if somebody would tell me something that was like pretty traumatic or something that happened to them, that they were really dissatisfied, I would take notes. Not like, Oh, so I need to watch out for me. It was more like. Well, what could they have maybe done differently? Or like, was that in their control or was that not in their control? And just identifying those pieces and not letting my mind go into anything scary. Beyond that, we did take a hospital based birth education course, which was. Good. But as I even say now, it's the tip of the iceberg. It's really unfortunate that most women in our society, at least where I live, they think, yep, I signed up for my four week, two hours at a time, prenatal education class. I kind of drug my partner along with me because I haven't really met, I've met one enthusiastic dad who was like, I can't wait for childbirth education at the hospital. And then think that they're like good to go for, the next 10 weeks until they actually experience their own labor and delivery. So I experienced that birth education course and thought, yeah, it was nice, but that is not what prepared me. The other huge piece of my puzzle for preparation was Ina May's guide to childbirth. I studied that book and the first half is birth stories. The second half is her wisdom. And it just spoke to me like to trust how my body was designed to deliver and to open up and to birth a baby. And so all of my main. coping mechanisms came from that book and I had a lot of confidence in what I learned there.

Kiona:

Yeah. I think that's really awesome. I love that you brought forth the fact that yes, the childbirth education that was offered at the hospital is a good start, but it's definitely not all things that you need to know and being able to obtain information from different sources, such as books, podcasts, friends, and family with keeping in mind, when you, reach out to all of those resources that. The way in which people explain their birth or the things that they experienced is not a guarantee that that's how you're going to experience it. So take what you need and leave what you don't. And then also don't carry the traumas and weight of other people's experiences on your own shoulders.

Kayla:

Absolutely.

Kiona:

that's one of the main reasons why I put all of the information in the titles of this podcast, because I want people to know that, hey, you are literally choosing to listen to this at your own discretion, but you know that the story you click on is going to mention stillbirth or miscarriage or trauma or hysterectomy if you look at these things. And so if that's something you want to avoid while being a person that is still pregnant, You can avoid it, which I think is good. And then maybe sometime you want to come back and listen, or maybe you don't, because that's not what you want to hear, and that is okay.

Kayla:

hmm. Yep. Yep. The power of informed choice.

Kiona:

Exactly. Exactly. I love how you also utilized this book because you were able to do it at your own pace you were able to flip back and forth. and it's not just with this book in particular. You can do it with any book. If you find a book that you're really into, you can literally flip, highlight, mark, take notes, do more research on the side. Like, books are an amazing resource, and I feel like sometimes they don't get enough credit because it's just a book, and there's words between the covers, and it's all gonna be the same. Every book is the same when really it's not. So.

Kayla:

Yeah,

Kiona:

Yeah, I think that's awesome. So, as you got closer to the birth of Kennedy, what was going through your mind?

Kayla:

So much curiosity and enthusiasm, really, I was not afraid. I had such little fear. If I did have any fear, it was just a little bit of fear of the unknown, but I felt like I was so prepared and I had spent so much time connecting to the process of childbirth that I was just really enthusiastic about experiencing it myself. So I felt a lot of curiosity of, you know, I've read so many stories. What's mine going to be like? And, I'm really hoping for my birth to go smoothly and to have a great experience, but I just know that I have to be in the moment. I can't, predict exactly when she's going to come or when I'm going to experience labor. So as anyone who is toward the end of their pregnancy will tell you, it's such a unique time. Like, Oh yeah, I will be at work next week or in three months.

Kiona:

Right.

Kayla:

It's just so crazy. You never know. Yeah.

Kiona:

so yeah, so, did you feel any particular kind of energy from Lucas at that time? did you feel like he was ready? He was scared, he was nervous. Or was it more of like, it'll happen when it happens.

Kayla:

I felt like he, so remember he's a nurse too, he's not really, really familiar with childbirth or like he wasn't as maybe enthusiastic as I was, but he was excited. You know, I think he was kind of like the naive, normal dad excited. Like, yeah, it sounds, I mean, sounds good. We did what we need to do. We'll just see what happens. And so I don't remember him being fearful or nervous. I just remember him. You know, being like ready to support me and feeling good about it.

Kiona:

Yeah, that brings a question to my mind with both of you being nurses. During, well, I guess we'll, we'll touch on it, but I'm curious if during your labor process, if it was easier for you both to understand the jargon that's being talked about in birth.

Kayla:

Oh, absolutely. There was, yeah, no, no issues there. I think that that was his way of connecting to birth was that it was kind of, he had been exposed at least a little bit to childbirth and the medical system, of course, cause he worked in it. And, Yeah, I think that that was hugely to our benefit for him especially.

Kiona:

Yeah, and that point that you just brought up of him having that as a form of connection to the process, I think that's really awesome. And to give him that sense of belonging in a way, because it is so, not saying that partners or husbands or spouses are not feeling like they belong, but a lot of the time they do feel hopeless or helpless because what can they do? You know, and he was well equipped with the jargon that was being tossed out and potentially when you're mid contraction, they're like, Hey, do you want to X, Y, and Z? And he's like, no, or he knows what they're talking about. So yeah, So let's go ahead and dive into your birth experience. At what point did you know you were in labor?

Kayla:

Oh this is so fun to relive. I woke up that morning and I was, I was just looking forward to the day so much because all that was on my day, on this beautiful spring day, was to go get a 90 minute prenatal massage. And to then go meet up with two friends and go for a walk and so on the way to my massage, my baby moved in a certain way that stopped me. I can, I can go right back in my mind to sitting in the car, being at the stoplight. I was at, and she moved a certain way. And I said, wow, are you getting ready to come out soon? Like it was just this connected moment, which in the moment I didn't think was really poignant and special, but looking back, I do like, I knew, you know, my intuition really knew and she communicated that to me, which is really a fond memory for me. I went and had my massage, which was delightful, of course. And I remember I had a male masseuse and I told him, I'm like, yeah, I'm doing two days or three days, whatever it was. And he was like if you go into labor on my table, I will never forgive you for this. I mean, I'm like. How serious is he? I was a little intimidated, but then we kind of just laughed and whatever. So as soon as the massage was done, they give you water usually to say okay, like make sure you hydrate back up after a big massage. I was like, yep. So of course I also drink the water and then needed to go to the bathroom because you're always going to the bathroom at the end of your pregnancy. And I went to the bathroom and noticed that I had some bloody show when I wiped and I was like, Oh, okay, good to know, you know, and then, a couple hours went on, went to the bathroom a few more times. It would notice just like a little bit more of that bloody show. And while I was on the planned afternoon walk I started to have noticeable contractions. They weren't stopping me, but they were there and I could feel the tightening and I was trying to just completely ignore it because I really wanted to go for this walk today. Again, like in Minnesota, when you finally have nice weather, you're like, please get me out. Like, I just want to go and like be outside and breathe the fresh air. So, We, Went for our walk and at the end of it, I said, okay, ladies, I have to tell you something. The whole time we were walking, I was having contractions pretty consistently, and before we started our walk, I had been like losing my mucus plug. And so I really think that I need to go home now and pay attention. They're like, wow. Okay, cool. So yeah, I went home and my husband was maybe going to stay late. He was getting off work at 3. 30, and he's like, should I stay till 7? And I don't know what I was thinking. Just that first time, naivety was like, yeah, you probably could. Oh, guess what? I've been feeling some contractions and bloody show and stuff. And he's like, oh really? So he actually, we ended the phone call with him like, okay, I'll stay till 7. And I was like, great. And then he called me back like five minutes later and said, oh yeah, I had signed up and they were ready for me. And then at the last second, they said, nevermind. We don't need you. And that never happens. You're always needed at the hospital. So I just like to say like, that was some grace to be like, I really did need him home and didn't realize it. And then it just worked out in our favor. Also, funny story. We both got home. I got home from my walk. He got home from his shift and on the front doorstep was our crib. We, had ordered it and this giant box was there and I'm like, well, I can't lift that in here. But he, got home and he's like, oh, okay. And I said, you really need to start setting it up because here is, you know, what I've been noticing and I am going to start timing contractions because I think they're picking up. So I. got on my birth ball and was sitting next to him just bouncing along and swaying along as he's like reading through all the directions and I'm being very minorly helpful, like here's a tool or you know, I'm not, I'm not helping. I'm just focusing. I saved forever the little sticky note. I had this neon yellow sticky note of The times that I was having contractions just to show the progression because this labor was so textbook, my contractions were 10 minutes apart, then eight, then six. And then we eventually got to the evening and he went to go lay down and I was drinking a lot of water and I was doing a lot of stretching and I eventually decided. Okay, like this is definitely it for labor, like I'm there, but I think maybe I should try to like go to bed because I should try to rest. So I did try to no avail about a half hour and then I got back up again and I did call, our local hospital and just told them this is what I'm experiencing. And she's like, this is really good, but it really sounds like you're able to talk. it sounds like you're having some back labor because I was reporting that I was feeling a lot of the contractions kind of starting in my back. And she's like, start by drinking a lot of water, just to make sure that you're not dehydrated. And I was like, okay. And they're like, yep, just call back when you're ready. So I think it was the next two hours. I walked laps in my kitchen, dining room, and living room. And I would just kind of like watch the clock a little bit, and I would just do my circles. And when one would start, I would march, and sway, and moan, and then eventually, called back again, and this time, I couldn't answer a lot of their questions, and they're like, wow, things have really changed, you definitely should come in. And so, yeah, I got Lucas up and said, let's go, and that drive for us was only about Maybe 15 minutes and I'll never forget it though. You're just so uncomfortable with contractions at this point. They were coming about every four minutes, I think and That was just a long ride, but I just kept my low Moans and Lucas had been filled in by me, you know ahead of time with the birth plan and everything and so when I would start to get high in my voice, he'd be like, no, low, low. If you're moaning, like, okay, yes, that was very helpful. And then, we had had a discussion about, horse lip breathing, So he was encouraging that and we had talked about it because I said it's really important when a mom is in labor to not feel self conscious. I said, so you can't make fun of me doing that. I need you to support me in that. So he would kind of like bring that up. He's like, just keep horse lip breathing. He was really supportive. We got checked into triage. We got baby on the monitor, everything looked great there. And I was in the zone. I was. Yes, no to the questions that I was being answered or Lucas would answer them on my behalf And the nurse was like, the midwife will come and see you but she's in the middle of some things So it'll be a while So they just kind of left us to it Which I was happy for because with just the two of us like that's kind of what I wanted I just really wanted to focus and I wanted to be able to be in the moment. I Think we were in there for about 45 minutes to an hour and the nurse comes and like opens the door very quickly and says, are you pushing? I was in the middle of a contraction, scrunched my eyebrows and shook my head. And she's like, well, your voice has really changed. I think you're in a new place for labor. And so if you start pushing, please let us know. And I was like, okay. You know, I just, again, my, one of my absolute best tips that I tell every mom, and this was One reason I know I was able to do a natural unmedicated birth for myself was to only stay in one contraction at a time. I was not thinking back to how long I'd been in labor. I was not thinking ahead to when I would start pushing or when I'd meet my baby. I was not really even fully acknowledging that I was going to like have a baby soon. That was not on my mind at all. It was just, I was right here, dealing with the work in front of me, like in my body. And so, yeah, she left and it really wasn't too much longer. The midwife came in, she, performed a vaginal exam and she said here between six and seven centimeters, let's have a baby tonight. And when she said that, I like got this huge burst of energy. Like, oh my gosh, we're going to have a baby. Because again, I just hadn't really let myself like claim and acknowledge that that's what was truly, truly happening. And, So I think that was almost just something, you know, it's really powerful for moms to be able to settle in to where they're going to be giving birth. And that was almost like maybe like a permission or something that I needed in my head that this was the real deal. So things picked up pretty quickly after this. I got off the cart and was standing and swaying, and they brought in a wheelchair to bring me from triage back to labor and delivery. And I got on the wheelchair and said, Please bring a bucket and we got no more than 10 feet and all that water I had been drinking to make sure it wasn't back labor earlier. That was, a lot of output I was like, oh, okay, feeling very sick. Took care of that and then was like, all right, go ahead. get me back there. And then I got back to my room and I was very much in labor land because I knew that people were around. I was literally watching them, but I felt so disconnected, like I was in my own kind of glass box or something. And I don't mean that in a negative way. I mean that I was just. I was doing my work. I was doing labor, even though things were going on around me. I wasn't paying, close attention. I wasn't giving them my attention. I was focused. I did try to get in the tub for a little while after being in the room for, I don't know, 20 minutes or so. And when I got in the tub, I really relaxed. That was so helpful because things were getting really intense. And, I didn't even realize it then. At all. But looking back, I had two contractions where I started to spontaneously push and the midwife said, Oh, we need to get you out of the tub because they're, they do not support water birth, unfortunately. And I knew why she was saying that but I also, I kind of wish she would have been like, you're pushing, like your body's doing it, like celebrate with me. I wish she would have kind of like made that clear because it was like so reflexive that I just didn't even know what was going on. I chose to go back to the bed in the room and kind of did like a high sitting position and She said you're there you're ready She must have done a vaginal exam and said yeah, like 10 centimeters. Here we go So I started to push and it's a little bit fuzzy maybe like an hour or 45 minutes of pushing and I pushed so hard. I remember that just because I was very motivated now to be like, this is the real deal. This is where I am now. And so let's go. I had a very, very supportive nurse. she had a student with her. I remember that. And super funny story is that that student ended up working with me in pediatrics like a year later.. So I pushed for 45 minutes or an hour or so and, delivered this beautiful baby girl who had a nuchal hand. She, meaning her hand was up by her face at delivery. So it, you know, just took a little extra effort maybe than it would have otherwise. And. I just remember being on top of the world that she was here and then I did it and that wow, you know, and they had laid her across my chest and she was looking what would be like down toward my hip or down toward the bed. And it felt like it was forever. It was probably two or three minutes, but I just kept looking at my husband saying I want to see her can you take a picture of her face because they were just assessing I did have meconium when my waters opened and so they said we would like the pediatric team to just be in the room and listen to her lungs and I said sure okay, and So they were listening to her and doing that assessment. So I just wasn't confident that I could lift her a different way. You know, you're kind of coming back down from birth. And it truly wasn't long before I could reposition her and get her up to my chest and just I was, yeah, I was so on top of the world. It was what I prepared for and she did great and I did great and Lucas did great. He was such a great help and support, like holding my hand and encouraging me. So yeah, and he wasn't scared to see everything that was happening as it was happening. I think that's kind of his medical side. So yeah,

Kiona:

that sounds so awesome. I really love that because it sounds like everything that you prepared for came into fruition. Like, you did all the things and knowing that if you had to change at any moment, you were just being present in the moment and kind of just doing your thing. And then you listen to your body and, I actually really love the part where. The triage nurse came in and asked you if you were pushing because that means that you were singing your labor song and I love that. I think it's so awesome because, you know, some people are very concerned about the way they're going to sound when they're in labor because they're like, I don't want it to sound weird. I don't want it to sound like I'm having sex. I don't want it to sound like all this stuff. And in my mind, I'm like, Whatever comes out of your mouth is meant to come out of your mouth. If you're cussing up a storm, then you're cussing up a storm. If you're mooing like a cow or counting or growling, like whatever it is, it's such a primal experience that you just gotta be.

Kayla:

I couldn't agree with you more. It's so incredibly important. I tell moms that This is a primal experience like you just said. Everyone there is there to attend you. I often give this little, example, like a, an illustration. If you were going to one of the most famous musicians in the world, and like you're going to their concert, everyone there is to attend the concert for the performer. Like you're not a performer in birth in the sense of you're performing for, approval or something like that or admiration, but it's your show. So if you need to sound a certain way, sound a certain way, like you cannot feel inhibited in any way. If you want things to keep progressing, it's very important.

Kiona:

I agree with that because, it is a very primal experience and Your primal instincts will kick in if someone comes into your space and you feel unsafe. Or if someone comes into your space and tries to take over. Your labor will stall, or stop, or slow down. those things will happen. The same thing will happen in an opposite situation. Meaning, if your body is pushing, And they're like, no, wait for the doctor. And you're like, hell no, I can't do that. That fetal ejection reflex just comes into play. I think that it's so important to remember we are animals and we have very primal instincts within us. So yeah, I loved that. And I also loved that your husband came in and was not afraid to see all the things. I absolutely think his medical background helped with that.

Kayla:

Yes, yes, that's true.

Kiona:

yeah, so that's really cool. So let's go into your postpartum a little bit. What was your postpartum like? did you decide to breastfeed, formula feed, bottle feed? and then did you experience any postpartum mood disorders or anxieties.

Kayla:

My postpartum was pretty easy in the sense of I took things slow, I tried to focus on healing, and, at the same time, I would say it was not so easy, for breastfeeding. I did really, really want to breastfeed and that was so important to me, but I did not prepare the way that I did for birth for breastfeeding. I very naively, and actually I will admit I just had this naive confidence that Breastfeeding is a natural process, so it'll just work. Like I've seen so many people breastfeed in the pediatric setting where I was working, at the time that I'm like, yeah, they just sit down for a feed and they feed and like, that's that. And I had heard some stories about, about challenges, but I'm like, Oh, we'll figure it out as we go. I just did not prepare. the way that I really needed to beforehand. so we I had a good breastfeeding experience except for I did not reassess and readjust her latch as often as I needed to. So it was painful. And then because it was painful, our feeding sessions were shorter than what they needed to be. So by the time she was about three months old, she was not At the weight that she should have been. And it wasn't like she was in a dire situation, thankfully, you know, and she had the whole time had good wet diapers, good, poopy diapers, like all of that, but I really needed to have longer, slower, more private sessions. While the first couple weeks of my postpartum were pretty slow, I would say by three weeks, I was returning to a lot of like social activities, not anything physical or like returning to work or anything like that, but just being in a lot of social settings. And so you just have to kind of plan for what the group is doing. Or like, if you're going to be with your group of friends or at like a softball game or something like that, some of that. becomes more of what's on the forefront of your mind than actually planning, when did she eat last? And how long has she been napping? And you kind of are switching your brain there quite a bit of your focus. And so I think I just wasn't catching, how much I needed to slow down and relax to let more than one letdown happen, for example, for, Our breastfeeding sessions. So that was probably the most difficult part because by four months we were supplementing and then officially, formula feeding. Now for me and my choice, that was devastating because I really didn't want that. I really, really wanted to breastfeed. At the same time, there was this huge disconnect for me that I, there were so many things I could have been doing. To support my process and even though I was a nurse and even though I, you know had prepared so much for my birth and I believed that this was a natural process I wasn't connecting And I put this more on me not on like, oh so too bad that we're not educated enough or something I realize like I could have reached out for lactation appointments that I didn't reach out to I could have spent more time practicing the latch I could have skipped a lot of social events to say This is my priority. I need to figure out nursing if I want to keep nursing my baby for a long period of time and like understanding that, you know, if someone could have told me, if you just keep up doing what you're doing, you won't be breastfeeding anymore for much longer, I think that's what would have done it for me to be like, Oh my gosh, I got to figure this out. But you have to have grace for your younger self. And, My sweet baby is healthy and I cherish every single day of those three months that we had breastfeeding. And yeah, so all in all the postpartum was fine but that is something that I wish I would have wised up about sooner.

Kiona:

Yeah, and hindsight is 20 20, you know, and there's no way that you could have known how you were going to react with your breastfeeding before you did it. And then in the moment it's hard because a lot of support or guidance drops off in the postpartum period. So if they are struggling with breastfeeding, some people don't know who to reach out to. And then if you get into this cycle of being Passed down the telephone line, you kind of lose hope at the same time too, because you're like, okay, I'm going to talk to my provider and then my provider is going to say, oh, talk to the lactation consultant. And then you talk to the front desk of the lactation office and they're like, oh, well, the appointment's not available until this time, but you can come to this free thing. And they're like, well, maybe I'll just go to the free thing. And then you never end up going to the free thing. And so it's this whole cycle. And then, Especially with being a first time parent, you don't know what to expect. You don't know what to look for. You don't know how to feel what the latch is supposed to be like. And that also goes into subsequent experiences. So if you end up breastfeeding again, what are you taking from your first time to remember or advise or guide yourself on how to go through the second?

Kayla:

You're exactly right. There's a lot of support at first I think, and then once it's even a month in, like who do you, you're not really seeing anybody consistently after like a month. So then, it's a lot of work when you're trying to figure out how to care for a baby to then like, okay, who do I call for lactation? Yes. The appointments, are they available or not? Am I up to packing up my baby and you know, where we are, you have to like park and like walk through the parking ramps and all this stuff just to get to the right desk. By the time you actually get there, it's this whole hour before you're even actually seeing somebody. So you're right. There definitely is room for improvements in support postpartum.

Kiona:

Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. leading into postpartum, let's go ahead and talk about if you noticed any signs in Lucas, like how his postpartum was. Did he have any depression or any anxiety? I know sleep deprivation is there for every parent that's involved. did you see anything in him that came to the surface?

Kayla:

what I saw in him was. That open handed curiosity and growth. You know, like learning how to change diapers is like a big deal for the dad and those first couple of days and months even, and, Oh, he was so sweet, like learning how to swaddle and trying to like, Oh, maybe she should do a nap in the bouncy chair this time because she needs to be upright a little bit more. So we're like really trying to study her and know her cues and that kind of thing. So I think he was definitely. interested and curious. he took his role very seriously to bring me snacks and water. I loved that and appreciated that so much. that was entirely sweet. And we, one of my fondest memories of postpartum is that we would sit on our recliner, sofa in the evenings and we would kick the legs up and we would snuggle the baby on our chest and we would just like eat and we watched the show Parenthood, which was so funny that it was like, we had not heard of that show really, or watched it prior to this, but we watched like all seasons and all episodes in the first few months of postpartum. It was just like our little evening ritual where we would eat and the baby would sleep on our chest and we would watch that. And it was just funny that it was Parenthood was the name of the show. And, So he, he seems to really like his paternity leave and, then maybe further in like three months, four months, five months, life resumes. And so I think we both just kind of like, we're trying to figure out like, how do you do work life balance with a baby and childcare and all of that. So it definitely was a balance, but I don't think that he had much change like withdrawing or being too overwhelmed or anything like that.

Kiona:

Right. Yeah, well, that's good. I'm happy to hear that you guys had a little ritual for yourselves at the end of the evening. That's so sweet and so fun. so with Kennedy's postpartum, did you return to work after that or was that when you started to become a stay at home parent?

Kayla:

I did return to work. I was a little nervous about that, but I said, you know, I actually am kind of excited to go back and see these people that I love to work with and to figure out, what it's like to be a nurse now in pediatrics as a parent myself, you know, I wasn't a parent before and that changes you absolutely as you're caring for kids. I did not love the daycare and breastfeeding slash pumping slash the baby's still not sleeping through the night and then doing Different shift work. I did not love all of that. That was pretty difficult to balance That definitely doing days and nights and long shift work really did Contribute to the plummet of breast milk and me being able to keep up on breastfeeding I did return to work and it went pretty well for the experience. I was happy to be back, but not so well for the balance. It was just really difficult to figure that out.

Kiona:

Yeah, no, I feel that for sure, I can definitely understand that. So at what point did you and Lucas decide that it was time to try for another?

Kayla:

That is a little bit fuzzy, honestly. I know that we talked about it. I know that we both felt like, yes, it's time to try, but truly there's something about that time period of that second pregnancy that is just blipped out of my mind. To be honest, I mean, I know we both felt good about it. I know we were trying again. our girls for their births are two years and two weeks apart, for their birthdays. So they're pretty close. we were ready. It was time, I guess.

Kiona:

That's awesome. And so how was your second pregnancy different from your first?

Kayla:

Honestly, the pregnancy was almost identical, except for, instead of 20 weeks of feeling really sick, it was 18 weeks, so it was a little shorter.

Kiona:

Nice. That's a bonus, I would say.

Kayla:

Yep, that was a little, a little bit better, but otherwise it was, you know, a very, very smooth pregnancy, and I felt really similar, just both times. I just had a good, healthy experience, so. There's not much else to say about it really. It was good.

Kiona:

Yeah, good. So with your first experience, you did some childbirth education. So with this experience, did you look into any other forms of childbirth education or were you just like, I've done it before. I know what I'm doing. We'll just go from there.

Kayla:

I think because of how much preparation I had done, and it really hadn't been that long ago, you know, looking back at that point, I really didn't do much extra. There probably were some Google searches and things like that, but I remember having at least one conversation with a friend who had chosen home birth. for her first baby who was born around the same time as our first. And I was so intrigued, but there really was a disconnect of me thinking that that was for me, even though like she went through everything with me of what I really wanted from birth and wanted to experience my goals. And she's like, it just like, really sounds like you are a home birth parent. And I said, yeah, I kind of agree with you, but. I think the biggest hang up for me was that at that time, I was only aware of one home birth midwife that served our area. And there may have been two or three, so still not that many, but the one that there was, she would have to drive a pretty long distance just to get to us. And I didn't feel comfortable with that more than anything else. I also like didn't understand how it all worked and I think maybe my Medical mind of being a nurse was just like I really understand the hospital and also the first time I optimized All of it into my favor. So i'll just do that again So that was the one thing that I remember like for preparation that was extra intentional which you know, I guess it was a conversation that just happened to come up truly, but Otherwise I don't recall doing a lot of extra reading and preparing for my second.

Kiona:

Yeah, that makes sense, though, because with them being so close in age, you had that still kind of in the forefront of your mind, you know, like, okay, I remember what it was like last time, and I felt really good last time, so I'm just going to do that. let's go ahead and dive into the labor of Claire.

Kayla:

Oh, Claire. Yes. Oh, this will be fun and it'll be short and sweet. I woke up on the morning of May 19th at 4 a. m. on the dot because I felt like I had this like specific gas pain, like the specific. pointy pain, like in my stomach and didn't think much of it. And then I looked at the clock at four Oh two, same thing, four Oh four, same thing. And I was like, why would a gas pain come every two minutes on the dot? But if these are contractions, That doesn't make sense because contractions that are two minutes apart should be painful, like more painful than this. This is like, I have to like really think about it and notice this like pain. And I kept feeling my belly. Is it tight? Like I was so bad at that for some reason, like telling if I was having a contraction, feeling my own stomach. I think at the end, it always felt kind of tight because of how stretched you are at the end. So I actually got up and I took a Tums and I just really never take medication. So I don't know, I just, that was different for me and tried to go back to sleep. And then my husband was getting up early around 5 30 and I got up with him and I just started kind of walking around and noticing. that this pain, which again was so dull, but it was there, would kind of keep coming. And so I said, I think I'm going to call into work today. I was supposed to be at work at 7am and it was already 530 in the morning. And so I called in and said, I think today might be my day. So I'm going to stay home. And they're like, Oh, wow. We'll be thinking about you. Good luck. And then I hung up. I got in the shower. And at the beginning of my shower, everything had just kind of stopped. And I was like, Oh man, did I like start my maternity leave? And I'm like not in labor. I was so confused. But then about halfway through my shower, I remember having one contraction that like brought me to my knees and the big like moaning. And then, I got out of the shower and had something kind of similar. So I called my husband back. He had gotten up early for that meeting. He was at that meeting and I was like, I think you need to come home. I'm not really sure what's going on, but I want you close. Sure. He said, So, he got back, at this time, it must be approaching 7. 30 or so. My mother in law had just arrived from out of town the evening prior. And so she was now awake and my two year old was awake. And, I remember like grabbing my two year old and sitting her on my lap and like bouncing on our birth ball. Like, I think your sister's maybe coming soon, just like bouncing around. And then I would go and eat something. And I, every once in a while, my mother in law said, when she tells the story, she's like, just every once in a while, you would do one of your laps around the kitchen and you would breathe. And then you would like come out of it and you were just talking like normal and everything was normal and I Agreed. I was just like, okay. I'm not really sure what's going on When my husband had gotten back home, I said, why don't we just lay down? I am not sure I was starting to get kind of frustrated like I don't know what's happening and When we laid down we were watching one of our favorite sitcoms and I just started to relax and laugh and hold his hand so the oxytocin was just totally flowing and And We weren't laying there too long and I had two contractions back to back that I had to get up on my hands and knees and rock just like intense. And he's just sitting next to me like, good, like, yeah, those are really big. And it was on the third contraction that started like that. I got to hands and knees and these were happening every like a minute and a half after laying down. I got up on that third one, started to be hands and knees, and then popped straight up to my knees and said, my water just broke. And he's like, Oh, okay. And I said, come around to the side of the bed, help me off the bed. My water just broke. And I even said, like, pull down my pants because I couldn't see, like, it couldn't feel like a huge gush, but I knew that's what happened. So he did. And I was just, I had been wearing a pad. And there was this little, half dollar sized, amount of fluid. And, he's like, are you sure your water broke? And I, at this point now, things are, like, really happening. I'm like, I am sure my water broke! Now get me to the bathroom! Which was two steps away, because we have an attached bathroom in our bedroom. And we're starting to walk over there and I'm like, she is coming. This baby is coming now. And, I had looked at the clock when I had stood up off the bed and I had this red clock, so it said 8:40, you know, I just remembered that and we moved over to the bathroom. He gets me there and I'm leaning over the vanity, deep breathing. And he disappears and I'm like, where are you? What's happening? And he's like, I need to call EMS. And I need, you know, and he's just brilliant. He picks up the phone, calm as a cucumber, says our address first, which I'm like, you are so brilliant. Cause they need to know where to go. So he starts with that and then says, my wife is in labor. The baby's coming now. And as he's talking, I have another contraction and I look at him. Over and say, am I going to the toilet or to the shower? Which was just a standing shower. So I'm like, no, I'm not going to sit on that cold, hard floor. So I'm just going to sit on the toilet backwards. I'm going to grab the tank and full throttle. Here we go. And I hear my husband coming back over and he says, yep, I see the head. And he, I heard him drop the phone. And one thing I forgot to mention from our first birth is that when she was being born and he was seeing this, the cord was around her neck and That kind of startled him a little bit. He just didn't like the way that that looked. So when he came over now in this birth and he's seeing the baby, come out crowning, he came right over and he searched for the cord on her neck. He just did it. And it was, it was around her neck. So he. So brilliant, like he gets in there and unwraps it from her head. And then the next contractions coming. And it was what my mother in law called the banshee woman yell, which was her first clue that something's happening in our bedroom. And it was just this huge, like grunt, push, scream kind of, and out she came into my husband's arms and thank goodness he was home because people say, Oh, if he weren't there, you would have gotten off the toilet or you would have caught her. And I'm like, I, I really didn't know what was happening. Like it was, I always joke that Claire birthed herself, that it was like, I was just a bystander because she just, I mean, it was so slick and so fast. It was like, she decided, yeah, now it's good. And just came out. And I'm convinced that if he hadn't been there, she would have been on the floor or something. And I, it just wouldn't have been as. as it was. So now my mother in law comes in the room and is like, what is going on? Oh, there's a baby. Oh my gosh. And my husband is holding her and she's crying. So this is all good. I'm stepping over her umbilical cord now to try to like back up and get off the toilet and sit down on the floor. And he says, We are fine. Just get me some towels. She says, where are your towels? You know, she just got in the night before. So she's trying to be helpful and she's nervous. And, Yes, so she gets us some towels, we wrap baby up, I hold her close and I say, Hi Claire, what are you doing here already? Just like kind of laughing and still truly like catching up to what is going on in front of me. And Lucas picks the phone up and he's like, are you still there? And they're like, yes, somebody should be entering your neighborhood really shortly. Like we can hear the baby's crying, this is good. Like don't cover up her face, you know, all these things that we're like, well, yeah, we know. And, yeah, these people came in, thankfully, I don't know if it was happenstance or what, but it was two female paramedics that helped Lucas clamp the cord and he got to cut it. And then, I got to snuggle her and I had not delivered the placenta they had me push once and I'm like, it's not coming out. Like I'm not ready. but they're like, that's fine. We just had you push once, get on the cart. Oh my goodness. I'll never forget. I get on the cart for them to like wheel us out to go in the ambulance. And there is like a fire fighter man, like young man in the corner of my bedroom, just like standing against the wall with the deer in the headlights. Look, because he's seeing like this half naked woman holding a baby with an umbilical cord like hanging And I just like picture in my head forever.'cause I'll never know. But like that was probably his first day on the job I had them snap a family photo in our living room quick and then they took us away. just for the delivery of the placenta. Everything was good. I did not end up delivering the placenta until we got in the hospital. And, Even then I think I just needed to calm down again, you know I think so much just like birth when a woman delivers a placenta She needs to be ready to birth and she needs to be ready to open and let it go And so I could feel like that once we were like, okay, we're all situated in a place Where people are going to help me with this now and then it was very smooth. So That was really wild

Kiona:

I love it though. I really love it. Man, Lucas is a champ.

Kayla:

Seriously.

Kiona:

I cannot tell you, my husband would not have done so well.

Kayla:

I just think he didn't have a choice. I mean, none of us did really in the moment and certainly, certainly his medical background helped. It helped that it wasn't the first baby.

Kiona:

Absolutely

Kayla:

yes but a really fun story is that if an EMT delivers a baby in the They get a stork pin and the gal who got the stork pin. which was pink, you know, for a little baby girl, she sought us out and gave it to Lucas. She said, I didn't deliver your baby. I didn't catch your baby. You did. And so he proudly wears his stork pin from time to time and tells that story. It's really

Kiona:

that is so cool. That is so awesome. Good job, Lucas. High five.

Kayla:

Yes, yes, he recently interviewed for a job and that was one thing that he included in like some fun facts about himself and he wore it in his interview because I'm like, you'll be so memorable to have that as part of your interviewing story. So that was fun.

Kiona:

Yeah, that's awesome. Hopefully he gets that job that he interviewed for. I love that Lucas did the checking for the nuchal cord. I think that's so awesome. And I think his instinct to do that was very much his medical background of like checking off the boxes and maybe like a fear kind of background of being like, this was something that stuck out to me the first time that kind of shook me a little. So I'm going to just check just in case because I need to be the rock here and let me stay being the rock by checking for the cord. I'm like twisting my finger in the air.

Kayla:

so funny story about that. When you get in, they said, well, why don't we check your perineum and just make sure that everything looks okay? And I said, there's one, it almost feels like a paper cut, like on the right side. I said, could you check that? And Lucas goes, Honestly, I think that was from me because I like went so fast to unravel the cord that I remember like scraping you

Kiona:

Oh.

Kayla:

and I laughed because I'm like, you're right. that's exactly where you were when that I started feeling that. And so, yeah, I didn't have any tears whatsoever from birth, but I did have this little cut from that, from the nuchal cord experience. So just kind of a funny, like, oh yeah, anything's possible, I guess.

Kiona:

But man, if that's the only damage you got in that entire situation, you took one for the team, you know?

Kayla:

Seriously. She must've been so low for so long because I said in the first hour postpartum, I said, I feel better down there than I have felt the last two weeks. So she, she must've just been having so much pressure that to actually have that relieved by her birth was like, I feel great now.

Kiona:

Mm hmm. Oh, that's so awesome. So how was your postpartum with Claire? Did you end up breastfeeding Claire and how was your experience with her?

Kayla:

I did, and I really wish I could say I was all the wiser and I was not. It was kind of the same thing. It was, I obviously had much more experience and I knew that I wanted things to be different this time, but my stress level was way too high. You know, ladies, you got to listen and understand that. If your stress level is high and you're not an overproducer, you're probably going to start to underproduce. The first three months were good. And then I went back to work in my pediatric nurse job and I, was flipping days and nights and I was doing, going long hours, sometimes not getting the nutrition that I needed. And then I had a toddler and a baby at home and doing the childcare stuff and all of that. And it was the same thing. My milk supply plummeted and I was attending to all the needs in front of me, but I was not attending to my breastfeeding need. And so, you know, for telling later the third birth story, I did wise up and I'll talk about that later. But, yeah, even the second time it was a great experience. I'm super grateful for the first three months, but after that it wasn't so great and I could have done some things differently, but. Again, we just have compassion for what it was and look back and do what we can to move forward the next time.

Kiona:

Yeah. So, After experiencing that the second time around, how did that feel? Like, how did that impact your emotions?

Kayla:

I was very emotional about that. I felt like maybe this just isn't for me. Like maybe this is just what my body does. I think I did some things differently. I think I took fenugreek or something like, you know, like things that you kind of like just Google and try, I know that I tried, pumping more after feeds and stuff like that, but it wasn't like the support that I needed, like seeing somebody and having somebody hold me accountable and, saying no to certain things and yes to other things. So It was difficult. I didn't go to a super dark place or anything like that, but it just, it was just difficult.

Kiona:

Yeah. And that makes sense, because a lot of people do experience struggling with breastfeeding multiple times and sometimes they always do, you know, and then they don't wise up necessarily. And they just let it be their fate, in a way. Like, this is what it is, and I know how it's going. So, yeah.

Kayla:

And for some women, of course it is, it's almost like that first couple of weeks is great. And maybe truly their body, for whatever reason, it actually is how it is. But often there's something we could maybe try to implement that would help.

Kiona:

Yeah, for sure. And, breastfeeding isn't for everyone. And there are some people that don't want to breastfeed, and so they don't, or they want to try for a little bit, and then once it gets hard, that's their limit and boundary for themselves, that, hey, we I know that there's an alternative that is totally going to help my baby stay plump and juicy. So, making that decision for their own mental health is also extremely important.

Kayla:

Absolutely.

Kiona:

Yeah. That story is super, super amazing and I love it so much, but I really am curious to hear what decisions you changed in your third pregnancy, knowing that you had this conversation with your home birther friend and then experienced an unplanned, precipitous home birth. While knowing that it went well. How did that impact the decisions you made with your third pregnancy of Emilia?

Kayla:

Yes, so now it's 2019 and, I think that our second was two, we waited a little bit longer before trying again. we knew we wanted to be pregnant again, we were hopeful about that. And, found out we were pregnant in, I remember like around Christmas time'cause I hung my little pregnancy, like pee on a stick. I hung it on the tree. It was sanitary, I promise. But I, I just hung it and that's how I showed my husband that it was kind of cute it was maybe a couple months into the pregnancy that I started. I had a doula friend that lived close by and we were on a walk and I started telling her, I do not feel comfortable going to the hospital for this birth when it's time. That's the last place I want to be. I don't feel like I need it. I feel like I know how I birth, I know what I believe about birth. So that's not for me. And so I asked her if she knew of who serves the Rochester area for home birth. And she gave me some more names that I hadn't heard before. And I went home that day and talked to Lucas and he said, I have almost a little bit of PTSD from Claire's birth. That was so fast. I'm glad it went well, but like, I, I don't know about this planned home birth stuff. And, we went back and forth for a couple of days or weeks. And then I eventually said, I understand that you're nervous and I have questions too, but in our family, we don't make decisions out of fear, ever. That's like not the reason to make a decision. And I will not birth at the hospital unless I have to. I said, I will do all the checks and all the scans and all the things to make sure that we're still in a good place. But that's the last place I'd like to deliver. And so he was like, okay. And he made his list of specific questions. And we had a consultation with a midwife and it went well. And he was agreeable to having the first appointment. And we would decide after that first appointment, what we thought. And after that first appointment, he was like, you could tell he wasn't like, great, yes, home birth it is. But he was very much like. Yeah, okay, like we'll, we'll stay on this path and then we went through all our prenatal care and I would have him come to every appointment that he could, which isn't that interesting that it's different that way because if I had had all my prenatal appointments at the hospital and clinic, I don't think I would have prioritized like, Oh, I have to make sure that you're off work that day. And like, you come with me. Maybe because we had already done that before with two kids, or I don't know, but he was involved in each appointment at the home birth midwife clinic that she had. And so I really appreciated him being a part of those. And then he got really comfortable and he, again, got his questions answered and everything was going well. So, we planned for a home birth midwife and that was at 20 weeks that we were like, yes, we're going to definitely sign on here. And, that's when the decision was made and we were very happy with that, especially knowing, well, not knowing that 2020 was coming and you know, home birth got very popular starting in 2020 since women wanted. Out of hospital choices that all the more. So we were grateful to already have that as a secured option for us.

Kiona:

Yeah, I actually truly appreciate how upfront Lucas was about it and then how it was a discussion that you had in order to make an informed decision together

Kayla:

Yes.

Kiona:

Of course, I'm all for people that are also like, I don't want a birth here, I'm the one birthing, I'm birthing here, you're coming or not. Or, also making the decision to be like, okay, I don't have a huge preference, but if you don't want a birth at a hospital, I'll go ahead and do it at home, or vice versa, you know? But I just like how you both came together and made that decision, and how you were really strong on your point about your feelings, too. And then he respected that with the fact that you were saying you and your family doesn't make decisions based off of fear, which is amazing. We don't either. and so going through with that and having it be him be more included than he would have if it was just normal prenatals at the hospital. I think that's great and such an amazing way to be involved as a partner.

Kayla:

Yes. It was wonderful. It was a gift. Truly.

Kiona:

Yeah. And so by the time you gave birth, it was pandemic time.

Kayla:

Yes. It was August of 2020. Mm

Kiona:

yeah. So How was this pregnancy for you? Was it smooth? Were there any differences between your other two pregnancies?

Kayla:

It was pretty similar again. I'm very grateful to say that. and I also got to shave off two weeks again on the morning sickness. So it was only until 16 weeks this time. so going down, down, down, that was nice. I thought, okay, it's getting better every time I was working still, but I moved to an outpatient job that I really loved. It had way more like shorter hours, daytime hours, great work environment, lower stress. So the pregnancy was smooth and I had a job where I wasn't, stressed all the time. That was really good.

Kiona:

Yeah, no, I think that's awesome. And so. With having a very comfortable pregnancy or a decently comfortable pregnancy and then having this communication with your husband, what was it like when you actually went into labor this time around?

Kayla:

He and I got to go on a date that morning, which was so fun. My mother in law was back again. So fun. She had been with us, I think a couple of days at that point and said, why don't I take the girls to go see their cousin? And it was about like an hour away. I said, great. So we got to go have a date and throughout the morning I would just naturally every once in a while rest my hands on my stomach and I would feel like, gosh, my belly feels so hard. But I had no pain, none at all. And then, you know, the next time I would just happen to brush against my stomach or just be feeling my stomach, it was so hard again. And I'm like, Lucas, are these like, does this, does this feel like a contraction belly? He's like, Oh, definitely. That's definitely a contraction. I said, huh. Must be Braxton Hicks. I can't feel anything. He's like, okay. And after our date, we went to Target. You know how with a registry, sometimes you can like get a coupon and you can go and buy a bunch of stuff on the registry and it's cheaper. So we're like, well, we need a car seat and we need this, you know, like, let's just go take care of that since we don't have the girls with us. And we ran into a friend there and we were talking and, just like chit chatting and taking our time. And again, I would feel my belly. Often as we're chatting and I'm like, what's going on? Because this feels like these are contractions and it's every time I touch my stomach. So I did text my midwives. There were two that were going to be coming and just said, I'm just giving you a heads up because last time was fast. I do not feel any pain at all, but this is what I'm noticing. And they said, sounds good. Let us know. We got home and the same thing as last time we laid down just to like, relax, take a nap because the house was quiet. How glorious is that? Like all the parents of multiples out there know, and he reached over to touch my stomach again. Cause I said, honey, my stomach is still so hard. And is this a contraction? And he felt my stomach. And when he touched my stomach, my water broke. I'm not kidding. And. That was wild. And my eyes got huge and I looked at him and he said, what did your water just break? And I said, yes. And he popped up out of bed so darn fast. And he's like, I got to call the midwife. And I'm like, cause he's thinking about last time that the baby was here in eight minutes. And I'm laughing and I'm like also simultaneously like noting just the weirdness that it is when you laugh and move and you're like leaking waters. It's like, Oh my gosh, this is just a lot of sensations. And I'm like, slow it down. I am not in pain. Nothing's happening. I do not feel pushy. he's like, don't care. Like calling the midwife. I'm like, okay, so I'm in the bathroom trying to make sense of what I'm seeing here. And. I hear him on the phone. Hi, this is Lucas. Kayla's water just broke. Yes. Okay. Bye. And I'm like laughing again. I'm like, you have to tell her, like, I'm not pushing a baby out. And he's like, well, she's on her way and she'll be here in 15 minutes. I was like, okay. So when she gets here, the first midwife gets here and I say, Thank you so much for coming. I hope you have all your things. If you need to like get a snack, do that, like just settle in. And she's like, okay, so we're not having a baby right now. I said, nope. And, I did ask her to just check my pad. Cause I'm like, is there meconium in the fluid? She's like, nope, it looks normal. Okay, good. That sounds good. She just checked on me and baby. And is like, yeah, baby's happy with waters open. Like just do whatever you need to do. And I'm like, yeah, I guess I'll just. Just like hang out. I called my same friend who's a doula. She lives close and I'm like, if you want to come over, come over, you know, and I hadn't planned on her being there for the birth, but I said, if you end up being here when she's born, like you can be. So she came over and she was just so sweet. She was like, here's some grapes and here's some water, making sure your water's filled. And she was just so a ttentive. And I loved that. And then she's like, well, why don't I just sneak downstairs and talk to the team? Cause now the other midwife had come and an assistant had come and they were just hanging out downstairs. Cause that's how I wanted it. I just wanted like. I'll call you up when I need you. And, she went downstairs and I didn't know this until later, but she said, all right, like, when do we think this baby is coming? And this is the early afternoon, maybe three or four, four 30 or something in the afternoon. And. My very experienced midwife said, I think about like eight o'clock, like 8pm. And she's like, Oh, really? Okay. Yeah, sure. So anyway, we chatted a bit more and then she, the doula ended up going home. She needed some to take care of some things. And then, I started to get a bit louder with my moaning and going through contractions. Now there is pain, like things are coming. Again. I think my body just knew that everybody's here. And it, it, you know, just let it be. And so, after they checked on baby with the Doppler, I just said, I'm just going to get in the shower. And I got in the shower and we laughed because we both saw that there was like a spider on the ceiling. We're like, Oh my gosh, like, are you going to get that? Like, I don't know what to do. Like I'm busy, Lucas, you're going to have to take care of that. And so we're just, you know, kind of laughing. And I got out of the shower and it was pretty close to go time. I was either in transition now or like really getting close to pushing because things were intense. And I said, go out of the bathroom and please go tell them to come upstairs. He goes out of the bathroom and comes right back in and he said, they heard you. They knew, they just knew they're right here. And I was like, Oh my gosh. It's so amazing to have people who just get physiologic birth and they follow by sound and by look and by timing. They're probably timing whenever they would hear me make noise. So then we just settled at the end of my bed. I pictured kind of being again, standing. Cause I was standing with Claire when she was born and just pictured kind of leaning at the end of my bed. We listened to my favorite song over and over again. And I, told them, I said, I want my midwife, who I was the closest to. I said, I need her right here. And she came right up next to me. And I just said, it's time to push. And I don't want to, I just don't want to do it. And she was like, well, you know, just there's many women around the world who are coming to this exact threshold. And like, we have to cross it to meet our baby on the other side. And I like loved and appreciated her in that moment. And I also was like, don't care. Don't want to do it. Oh, it was a little sassy. You know how we get in transition. Right. So I. You know, don't have a choice now. I'm like, okay, the next contraction, I'm going to start trying. And the second midwife was with Lucas kind of behind me a bit, as I was kind of standing and leaning and he wanted to catch, they were having a discussion and he's like, yeah, I want to try to catch the baby. And she was like, great, I'll be right here. You know? And so I pushed a few times and they said that they're seeing her head and I just want to be done so badly. And I think it was maybe a couple more pushes, and on the last one when I pushed real hard to get her out, she, like, fetal ejection reflex, like, boom, she was out. I was standing, she shot out and did a somersault, and Lucas, so I'm, I'm looking, through my legs. back at him and the midwife. And I see the midwife's face, just these huge eyes, like watching the baby and him and like, like a football catch. And I see my husband and his arms are kind of, you know, like grabbing the baby. And, yeah, he, he caught her. She was very slippery and she came fast, but he caught her and she said, Whoa, nice catch.

Kiona:

And I love this moment right here so bad because he actually like caught her.

Kayla:

Yes.

Kiona:

just that like birth worker jargon of like, let me catch your baby as like we help guide them out of your vagina. But no, it's like he literally caught this baby that was just like busting out.

Kayla:

Yes. Oh, yes, yes. And so I, again, stood up and kind of turned around, and it was the plan that Lucas would look and see what this baby was. With our third, we did not find out if it was a boy or girl. And I said, Well, like I'm like looking at him like, come on, what is, I want to know. And I was trying kind of not to look at the baby cause I didn't want to, I wanted to hear him say it. And he said, it's a girl baby, you know, and handed her to me. And I said, Oh, a girl and hugged her. And they just helped me or like kind of back right up onto my bed, into my little like nest area. And I got to just nurse her and be with her. And. Oh, those big sighs of relief that we're done. and it really, you know, they left us after they checked that everything was totally fine. After a minute or two, they left us again, just by ourselves for about, you know, five, 10 minutes and came back and my placenta was already ready. I couldn't deliver it. I just couldn't get that. Like I wasn't coordinated with my pushing to just kind of help it when I was reclining. So Lucas held the baby and then I got into a squat and I just delivered the placenta on the Chuck's pads there in my bed and that was that. And that was pretty pretty even Steven. I mean, that was it.

Kiona:

Oh, I, I love that. And the thing that I hear in every single one of your birth stories is that you were the leader. You were the leader. Everybody was following your lead. And, and even in that second precipitous birth where you did not know what was going on, you were still leading and Lucas was following. He's like, I got to see the head. I'm catching this one. Yeah.

Kayla:

Thank you for pointing that out because that truly is of vital importance. It matches that little illustration that I give to my clients now that you. are the center. Everyone here is to attend to you. It is not a power struggle. Maybe there's dialogue and discussion about what's going to be best, but it is not a power struggle. It does not need to be. So yeah, I really appreciate you pointing that out.

Kiona:

absolutely. And I agree with you and how it should not be a power struggle. And with so many people, even if they're birthing out of hospital, there is still a power struggle sometimes, the setting that you choose to birth your baby does not determine whether or not you're a leader. It's your team, your care, and your agency throughout the entire process. So

Kayla:

yes,

Kiona:

yes, let's talk about your breastfeeding journey with Emelia because you had said it was different.

Kayla:

It was. It started off pretty similar. just had like good supply right away. And my midwives were really intentional about saying, You gotta fix that latch. You gotta gently pop her off. Don't let her get away with those shallow latches. And I was really ready now to be like, If it doesn't feel right, I'm not doing it. I am reassessing. I also got a different pump. I used the Hakka. if you're unfamiliar listeners, that's like a silicone pump. Manual kind of pump. It's not really a pump It's more like a milk collector and that really helped just catch if my breasts were full I could just kind of use that without having to aggressively pump But then I also did have a different pump that I had used before which was just more gentle and just like it worked better With me Ironically, I didn't need to use it very often So that was good and all in all but the fact that in this third postpartum I was more aware About better latches. I had a less stressful job. I did have, you know, now three children and yes, there's some stress that comes with that, but I wasn't flipping days and nights anymore. my employer and my manager really meant it like, please take your pumping breaks, please make time for it. So there's less staff altogether in this position that I was in now. So there was like actually time. And then I actually only stayed at that role as the pediatric outpatient nurse for about, I think it was until Emelia was about four and a half months old. So I came back after maternity leave and stayed for a little while. And then I said, now's the time. Now's the time my husband and I had a lot of discussions for the years leading up to this. And we knew that it would come after a third baby. But I just said, she does not eat well when we're apart. It is very stressful for me. It's very stressful for her. It's stressful for the daycare provider. it's time, like we need to make the cut and I'm going to start staying at home full time. So that was the biggest help was that I was home full time and was able to nurse her for 13 months.

Kiona:

Oh, beautiful.

Kayla:

Yeah, yep, and that was I again treasured every single day and just kept at it and it wasn't always super easy I just like don't have a big supply. So I was always in the back of my head. Am I making enough? Is it enough? Is she growing enough? And she was and it was like she was always just meeting the mark that in theory per a growth curve You know, she like should be at But we had a wonderful journey and, we're still, I feel like in some ways, there's just a closeness that I have with her, whether that's because of home birth, because of, the breastfeeding journey, the slower pace that I wasn't working at such a stressful job and it was 2020. So things were slow, like socially. Things weren't going on. I was home with her. So I think all of that combined into a really, there's this just unique closeness between Emelia and I.

Kiona:

Yeah, I love that. I love that. And I actually have a similar experience with my kiddos. I unexpectedly became a stay at home parent after my third when she was about seven months old and the connection that I have with her is just different and she's like super glued to my hip all the time and she's, you know, the relationship we have is just different. Yeah. So, yes. So I love that you shared all of these stories with me but before we end this interview, I want to dive into how your three birth experiences steered you in the direction of birth work, thus leading you to create your business called My Birth Choices.

Kayla:

Yes. Each of my birth stories are very unique and I have a The history of working in a hospital setting and then also birthing and supporting birth out of the hospital setting. And I, I'm a studier. I like to answer the question. Why, why do we birth like this? Why are women feeling in general intimidated by birth, scared by birth? why are women having negative experiences? Why is our C section rate 33 percent when it wasn't near that 10, 20, 30 years ago? Why, why, why? I ask all the time and I study. And my takeaway, my deduction is that there is disconnect. The wisdom, the innate wisdom of what it means to grow and birth a child, both for a woman, a man, a family, what the process is, is a completely disconnected, far away experience until you're actually in it yourself. And for many women, the only connection is media movies and the horrific birth scenes that we see or shows. And then maybe they've had a friend or family member give birth. And if it's anything like the majority of the birth stories I hear, They weren't great. They were, this went wrong and that went wrong, and they said I couldn't, and they said I should, and there's, the power is just, women are disempowered. And so those are the connections, which are, I don't even want to call them that. I mean, that's the familiarity, I guess, to what birth is. And our culture does not promote getting connected. Sooner in your pregnancy, sooner in your preconception, sooner when you're a teenage girl and you're learning about what menstruation is and how pregnancy actually works and all of that. And what birth actually can be like when it's honored and there isn't this power struggle. There's just this huge disconnect. And it really, really flipped and changed, between 1900 and 1955 when birth was in culture. either with doctors who would come to the home or midwives who would come to the home or then the flip happening to birth being in the hospital behind closed doors first with patients who were, extremely poor. So they weren't paying for services in the home and in their community. They were just coming here as kind of charity cases in the hospital. There were a lot of bad outcomes because of infection. We weren't practicing good infection practices, including not even like wearing gloves, if you can believe it, you know, like if we can even try to wrap our minds around that. So a lot of, sepsis passed around, but for women, for babies, like bad outcomes, then hospital started to grow across the country. So it's like, well, we have to figure out how to improve our outcomes. Cause now everybody's starting to. Come to these hospitals for many things. Well, why wouldn't birth be one of those things? Because people will always be giving birth. So it became, we need to do it because people will always need services and we need to do it because we're a business and we will always have a source of income because people will be coming here for birth. And so. In that time period, and since that time period, since about 1950s, the reconnection is nearly impossible unless you take it upon yourself to figure out your true choices. Figuring out your true choices is tricky, and that's why, that's my heart behind My Birth Choices. I say that my mission at My Birth Choices is bringing birth back into culture through revelation of choice. And I partner with women on empowering journeys to and through motherhood. So with my birth choices, it's like, let's sit down and open up the conversation much like you're doing. I applaud you and thank you so much for sharing the many ways that women can give birth because listening to this is one piece of the puzzle for the expectant mom. in addition to researching and asking questions, finding support, and then. Opening up that conversation leads to what are actual choices. It would drive me nuts. And it still does when I start to have these wonderful conversations with women who are willing to share their birth stories or, I share mine and we start talking about things and they say, well, I didn't know I could say no to that. I didn't know that I could choose this. I didn't know that there was an option for difference for GDM testing or, you know, met like water birth or like just, you know, different forms of pain medication. Like I didn't know, I didn't know what that looked like. Maybe I read it in a textbook. Maybe I heard it once in my childbirth education class, but I didn't see how that applied in a situation. That's the other piece that just lights the fire in me. That's not fair that you don't know that there are even certain things that I have learned since being a third time mom, a doula and a midwives assistant, and I'm just now figuring out the difference between things like, one step delivery versus two step delivery. I won't even get into that now, but that's just like one example where I'm like, Women should have a choice if their provider helps them with one step delivery or two step delivery. Cause there's reason to look into that and advocate for yourself for what you want. And like, this is just not okay that women don't have the choices. When women have the choices, they have power and it doesn't need to be for the sake of a power trip. It needs to be for the sake of your experience, your body and your baby. and how you birth. So that's why I created it. And through that, there is an option to still partner with me through what I call pregnancy partnership. It's one on one birth education with a doula consulting about what are your choices. Now, how do we make Your experience match your wishes and your choices. How do we optimize the chance that you'll have a beautiful birth in the way that you envision a beautiful birth? And so that's where the partnership side comes in from My Birth Choices through Pregnancy partnership.

Kiona:

Yeah, I love all of this, and I'm excited to be able to share about your business while it's still in the early stages because there's so much. growth that's going to be happening with your business and the impact that it's going to have on the community that you're serving is absolutely insane because of what you had just mentioned about having that agency, right? And doing those things. And so one of the biggest things about having agency with knowing what your birth choices are means that you get to actually hear and see and learn about how the policies and procedures that are being put into place impact you as an individual. Like, what can you say no to, what can you say yes to, what can you say maybe, or absolutely not, you know, and everybody, whether that's in hospital or out of hospital, works in a specific way. and so they usually have these steps that they take in order to make sure or try their best to ensure that you have a safe, healthy, productive, pregnancy They want to take all the steps that they can to make sure that you are taken care of. but just because it's something they do all the time doesn't mean they have to check off every single box every time.

Kayla:

Yes. You get it. You get it. Yes, exactly.

Kiona:

I think that's really important for listeners to know and to be aware of because Especially, I really, really would love to get more young listeners, like teen parents, because yeah, there's a lot of things. Some of these stories might get them to be like, I ain't having no babies, but some of them will also be like, Oh gosh, like I'm pregnant unexpectedly, didn't know I could have a home birth. Like for me, I was 19 and I did not know that my state insurance covered out of hospital midwifery, did not know that. So. To be able to put that info out there, maybe even into the teen health centers in high schools and to have a childbirth education in a high school and do those kinds of things. That would be so cool.

Kayla:

Yes, yes. Change is certainly coming for a lot of women. home birth practices here in Rochester are growing big time because women are waking up to the truth when they are reconnected to what birth can actually be like, especially for the mom who has a very low risk pregnancy. Then they start to open their eyes to Oh, like it's not scary. Oh, it's not foreign. And Oh, I've already known seven other moms who have had a home birth. You know, it's increasing in popularity because it becomes familiar because we're reconnected and because we have an accurate depiction, we're not scared of this far off birth behind closed doors, we're actually seeing it, talking about it, practicing it. Tides are turning for sure.

Kiona:

absolutely. And I also wanted to bring up the point that It's so amazing that you yourself are the one that created this business, My Birth Choices, because you experience birth in both places. You are coming from a place with an open mind, having worked in the medical field, and doing those things, but with an open mind because there's extremists on all ends, right? So there's like extreme home birthers, like free birthers. There's extreme hospital birthers and like, heck no, I need to birth in a place where I can get an epidural. All of which is fine. It's all on a spectrum, right? Now there's pros and cons to wherever you land in the spectrum, whether that's bad outcomes, good outcomes, permanent impacts on our bodies. It really is so different, and I'm the type of person to be upfront and open minded about the fact that wherever you birth, there's always pros and cons. That's how come you have to go through the process of making these important decisions and doing your research, and My Birth Choices sounds like a great place to start for that.

Kayla:

I would love to hear from anybody truly that the great benefit of, you know, living in 2024 is that all of my services can be accessed digitally if needed. You know, we can meet just like you and I are over an internet connection. And part of our meeting of a consultation could be, let me help you. If I'm working as a birth consultant in a consultation, let me help you get connected to your birth choices in your area. Like I will gladly do some of the Google searching, some of the calling around, some of the looking for reviews for you, which would be easy for me to do because of the internet today. but then, yeah, in my own community, I get to meet with women a lot more personally, one on one. Then they have the option, if they do pregnancy partnership with me, they do have the option to add on in-person doula support as well. So I'm all about increasing access. Do we need to start with a consultation for a very low fee or even free? At first, I offer a free consultation. Okay. Then let's look at what some choices are for you, for your experience. If some of that includes you'd like to continue this. relationship in this partnership to help increase the odds that you are going to have this like birth that you set out for. Let's do pregnancy partnership. Excellent. You're feeling great. Either we kind of end at pregnancy partnership or we add on Something that's a bit more of an investment which would be in person doula services So I'm really trying to reach out and connect with women like let's just talk about what you need and even if you don't take the exact suggestions I give at least you're aware of the things now that you have options for for this pregnancy or for a future one So I'm very, very enthusiastic about helping support women and seeing their true choices.

Kiona:

Yeah, I love that. I love that so much. So, tell our listeners where they can find you.

Kayla:

Yes, please connect with me at mybirthchoices.com. You can learn a little bit more about me, read about my services, and even submit a contact form. That's really easy. or I'm on Instagram@mybirthchoices if you want to connect a little bit there. Yeah, that, that would be the best way. Either of those two ways would be great.

Kiona:

Awesome. Well, thank you so much, Kayla. I am so excited to get all of this information out to the world and to put this amazingness into listeners ears. I just love this so much. Thank you so much for being on the podcast.

Kayla:

Thank you. It was such a pleasure. I'm really, really glad we got to meet today.

Kiona:

Yeah, me too. Absolutely. During this interview with Kayla, I learned that having that mindset shift of being a hospital worker versus birthing at home can be a tricky one. I also learned that it is extremely important to have a supportive partner or strong support person by your side, during your labor and birth, because that precipitous birth experience was definitely a doozy. And as I was editing this episode, I realized that I forgot to ask Kayla my three closing questions. So I ended up asking her via message and here are her responses. My first question is what is one piece of advice that you would give to all pregnant people to prepare for labor birth and postpartum. Her answer was. One piece of advice. I would hope every mama knows is this. If you are approaching 37 weeks and you're not feeling confident and encouraged, take the time to write down what your uncertainties are specifically. Yes, there is always the unknown, but beyond that, what are you specifically unsure of? Then this is the important part. Find a helpful solution. She says notice, I didn't say to find the answer. There isn't always one answer, but there are always solutions that are more helpful than not. Question number two, what is one resource that I can provide the listeners on your behalf? She said, book a free consultation with me at my birth choices. Women use this time to talk to me about their desire journeys and to get questions answered. She said she can listen and connect mamas to resources and help them make their dream birth plan a reality. And my final question of course, is if you could describe your birth experiences in one word, what would it be? And she said her overarching word regarding her birth is rewarding.. Kayla. I appreciate you so much. Thank you for sharing your stories. And I'm so excited that everybody gets to listen and learn from them. As for you listeners, I would love for you to join the private Facebook groups. You can participate in all of the fun conversations. To join, go to birthasweknowitpodcast.com/facebook and if you love the birth, as we know what podcast contribute to the production by becoming a patron. You can do this by going to birthasweknowitpodcast.com/support for our next episode, we have a special guest. Her name is Adriana Kennedy. Abrahana is an ER, travel nurse, a birth doula, as well as a pre and postpartum strength trainer. So stay tuned. So you can hear how Abrahana navigates all three of these roles. She also shares a couple of birth experiences with us and she talks about some of the challenges she experiences as being a birth doula, who is a nurse while working with other nurses. So it's going to be a good one. All right friends. I look forward to staying connected. Talk to you soon. Bye. For now.

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Kiona Nessenbaum

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