60-Meg Chappell-Miscarriage-IVF-Vaginal Birth-Romy

In this episode, Meg talks about her three miscarriages and what eventually led her and her husband to the road of IVF. She then goes into detail about what it was like to give birth to her daughter Romy after experiencing some health issues during her pregnancy.

birthasweknowitpodcast.com/60 

Disclaimer: This podcast is intended for educational purposes only with no intention of giving or replacing any medical advice. I, Kiona Nessenbaum, am not a licensed medical professional. All advice that is given on the podcast is from the personal experience of the storytellers. All medical or health-related questions should be directed to your licensed provider. 

Resources:

• Meg Chappell: Meg The Doula-Swedish 
• Laurie Levy-Doula: https://www.laurielevy.net/ 
• Tiffany Renée-Lactation Support: https://www.mahoganypoint.com/ 
• Jessica Timins-Acupuncturist: https://www.artemesiahealingarts.com/ 
• Perinatal Support of Washington: https://perinatalsupport.org/ 
• Postpartum Support International:https://www.postpartum.net

Definitions:

• Foley Bulb
• In Vitro Fertilization (IVF)
• Preeclampsia 
• Gestational Diabetes
• Shoulder Dystocia 
• Occiput Posterior (OP) Presentation

Transcript

Kiona: 0:08

Welcome to Birth As We Know It, a podcast that is dedicated to recognizing the many different ways that birth unfolds. I am your host, Kiona Nessenbaum. I have experienced birth as a doula, a student midwife, a birth assistant, and as a mother of three amazing children of my own. After attending over 140 births, I've realized that each birth experience is truly unique, so make sure you subscribe and join me as we are guided through many different birth experiences through the lens of the storyteller. Please be aware that some of these stories can be triggering to hear, so feel free to pause, take a breath, and come back and listen whenever you're ready. With that said, let's prep ourselves to dive deep and get detailed about what really happens in the birth space. As a reminder, this podcast is intended for educational purposes only, and has no intention of giving or replacing any medical advice. All advice that is given on the podcast is from the personal experiences of the storytellers. All medical or health related questions should be directed to your licensed provider. Hi, this is your host Kiona stopping in for a quick moment. I just wanted to say, before we dive into this episode, I would love for you to join the private Facebook group for the BAWKI listeners in the BAWKI community. On Facebook, we are all here to support each other, learn from each other and relate to each other. So don't hesitate to be part of this amazing community. We have each other's backs and we have a lot of information to share. So head over to birthasweknowitpodcast.com/facebook to request to join. I would also like to ask you one small favor. I would love for you to listen to this episode, with the intention of finding something that you yourself can relate to. And once you find that something, I would like you to share this episode. It doesn't matter where in the episode you are, whether it's the beginning, middle or end. If there's a moment when you feel you can relate to the person who's speaking today. I highly encourage you to share it with a friend. Because if you can relate to it, somebody else can too. All right. Let's dive into the episode. Hello, everyone, and welcome back to the Birth As We Know It podcast. Today, I have on Meg Chappell, and she has been a doula for eight years. And she is on today to talk about her birth of Romy, who is 16 months old. So welcome, Meg. Thanks so much for coming on.

Meg: 2:58

Thank you so much for having me. I'm really excited to be here.

Kiona: 3:02

Yeah, I am super excited to dive into your story. the thing I'm most curious about is what it was like to go through this journey after having already been a birth worker. So I'm super excited to dive into the details of that. But before we do, I would love for you to tell us a little bit about yourself and who's in your family.

Meg: 3:19

Yeah. So I grew up in Rhode Island on the East coast, but I've been in Seattle for about eight years, and my birth worker career kind of took off here. but in my family, it's my husband. We met in New York city in 2010 And we've been together ever since then. And then my daughter Romy, who is almost 16 months, that's my family here. And then all of our family is back East. Rhode Island, Massachusetts, but that's the three of us make up our family here.

Kiona: 3:46

Oh, that's awesome. And so knowing that your family is on the East side, we'll probably hear some things about what your postpartum looked like and what it was like for your family to be involved in your conception journey, pregnancy and all the things. So let's go ahead and dive right in and talk about when was the moment that you and your husband decided that you were going to try to have a babe.

Meg: 4:11

think shortly after we got married, it was, we got married August of 2019. And we had a few plans to go on trips during 2020 with some friends to Europe and to Guatemala, but then COVID hit in March 2020. So all those kind of were postponed. So we decided, I guess. Let's just try to have a baby while we were cooped up together. And so our journey sort of began like, March, 2020 We had some struggles we kept getting pregnant sort of quickly, but we weren't able to keep the baby. So I had about three miscarriages before, having Romy in December of 2022. So that experience definitely impacted. my journey was unexpected. but yeah, three miscarriages, three losses, during our pregnancy journey.

Kiona: 5:00

If you feel comfortable, do you want to talk to us a little bit about the emotional side of that? Like what it was like to get pregnant, potentially, I'm assuming, be super excited and then to figure out that something wasn't going to work. How was that?

Meg: 5:16

Yeah, you know the moment you find out that you're pregnant. You just really now just imagine you just go total forward thinking, imagining your life with this new being and what they may look like and all the dreams and hopes that you might have for you and your family. And then to experience a loss, it just all comes, crashing down. and, for the first loss, I was only pregnant about, I was, I think five or six weeks pregnant. when we had the, when, when I, I started bleeding, I kind of woke up in the middle of the night and I just kind of knew instantly. and I didn't, I wasn't expecting it to be as physically painful as it was. It was really, really hard for me. I tried not to wake up my husband. I just wanted to kind of like be alone in that moment on the bathroom floor. And that was really devastating. It just felt like in one moment, like everything, all your hopes and dreams were just taken away. and I think maybe four months later, we were trying, I mean, I had heard from friends that after miscarriage, sometimes you're more fertile afterwards. And so I was kind of really leaning into that and hoping. and so I got pregnant again, maybe, yeah, four months later. And again, I think around six or seven weeks, same thing, kind of woke up bleeding, and got my husband up this time, because it was just really, really painful and I really needed support. And I kind of remember just lying on the bathroom floor, the same one, in a lot of pain. and then I think our third loss happened, maybe I'm sorry, the timing, it's kind of all a blur in a sense, maybe about another three or four months later. and this time it was different in the sense that, we had gone to see the provider and we had seen the heartbeat. And so it really, in that moment felt real, you know, and I think I had looked up statistically, I was kind of at this point where the likelihood of miscarriage kind of went down and down every week. So I was really feeling hopeful that this would be the one that stuck. And seeing that heartbeat, you know what I mean? I remember that a little, a little flicker and I was so excited and I went home and I remember going to this, there's this like dog brewery over in Seattle. We don't have dogs, but I remember sitting there after seeing the heartbeat and sitting with this like non alcoholic beer or something and just feeling so excited and it was just like this moment of feeling like we got to the safe space. And then I went back maybe a week later and there was no heartbeat. And I kind of, I didn't know, but my nausea had sort of, disappeared, so I was kind of having some doubts, but I'm like, plenty of people don't always experience nausea, but some symptoms did come to a kind of grinding halt. and at that moment, it was hard because, I had to go the next day for an ultrasound to confirm, with the transvaginal ultrasound and the tech was just not very sensitive, I think in that moment. And that was really hard for me. And I know not all people are trained, in those situations, but I think that was really hard because it felt already a cold room, and that was really challenging. I think the hardest part was I, didn't spontaneous start to, to miscarry. And so I had plans to, get a DNC, the following week. and the night before the DNC, I spontaneously started to bleed. and that was really painful, like really unbearable pain. And I was thinking I was about nine weeks. And, my husband, I remember, I, I sort of had this funny moment. as a doula, I feel like when folks are in labor, it's like, yes, no questions, and he was asking like way too many complicated questions. And I remember thinking like, oh, gosh, this is going to be a problem one day in the birth space because he just, I'm like, I just needed yes, no, yes, no, like, do you want some ice? Yes. Do you want, you know,

Kiona: 9:09

Mmhmm.

Meg: 9:10

And so after that miscarriage, it was sort of like, okay, I've had three miscarriages. I don't think I can emotionally sustain. Another one, and I wasn't really sure what to do next, and so we decided to explore, IVF. So we kind of made an appointment with the fertility, doctor, and at our first appointment, the doctor, I remember saying like, one, miscarriage is common, two, is, A pattern and three is a problem or something like that. And so I, was like, okay. And so they told me I had a 70 percent chance of having another miscarriage based on like some tests and stuff. Maybe my age, I'm not exactly sure why, to be honest. And so from that moment, we kind of knew, he said, you could continue to try and get pregnant and one pregnancy will probably stick, but if you, I'm not sure if you emotionally and physically want to go through that and for me, I just knew that I couldn't emotionally go through another miscarriage and all this was happening during the height of COVID and so it felt really isolating. I didn't see my family during that time, a lot of my friends are on the East Coast, so it just felt really heavy and really sad and I think, I know a lot of people who, despite how common miscarriages can be, can, it can feel really alone or you can feel really alone in that moment. And, that definitely was true for me.

Kiona: 10:33

Yeah, and I can imagine being hesitant to tell people that you're pregnant again, potentially, saying, Oh, I am pregnant and then, not knowing how to feel the second or third time around. so when you did end up getting pregnant after your first miscarriage and after your second, how were your emotions then? Were you excited or were you more hesitant to hold that excitement?

Meg: 10:57

Oh, absolutely. It was really hard to find joy. It was just kind of riddled with just worry and constantly like every symptom you're feeling, you're wondering, is this the one that might be, Oh, The pregnancy has, ended and so it was really hard for me to find joy, especially that first trimester. yeah, it was definitely challenging.

Kiona: 11:17

Yeah. So when you did decide to go through with IVF, what was that process for you? How did that look for you and your husband?

Meg: 11:26

While it wasn't a path that we had thought we would maybe have to go down, I do feel incredibly grateful and I know it's a privilege to be able to, get to go through IVF. I know it can be very cost prohibitive for a lot of people. We were very lucky that our insurance covered it, most of it. so while I had a lot of mixed feelings, I did feel really grateful that there was an opportunity or a way for us to still get pregnant. going through IVF was a bit rough. the hormones, the shots, the appointments, and a lot of, the fertility clinics, it just kind of feels like a, I don't know, it's, it's a business first and foremost. I always think there should be fertility doulas there, you know, or like IVF doulas, like it just, it felt like kind of in and out, head down, not really anyone there to kind of check in on your emotional wellbeing. And I imagine most people who are sitting in the waiting room are going there or sitting there desperate times, the last resort, so. the experience itself was challenging, but my partner was very helpful. he got good at giving the shots, and we, the first time we did it, we did one cycle and we ended up after genetic testing with one embryo, which is Romy, who we now have. and then we had to go through another round and we ended up with two embryos, which are currently on ice, down by South Lake Union.

Kiona: 12:51

Yeah. Nice.

Meg: 12:53

So yeah, I feel, the experience, it's hard. It's looking back on it. It's almost a blur a little bit. And now that I have Roamie, it's like, I would do it again. But in the moment, it felt really hard and trying and all the things, but I would do it again.

Kiona: 13:07

Yeah. Yeah. I can imagine just how vulnerable people's emotions are in that state and fertility doulas absolutely need to be present. Like I would highly advise all fertility clinics to just have them on deck, you know, have them as part of your team. And then they get to focus on that emotional side of the fertility process because not every insemination is successful. You know, and like, what does that look like? Cause they're, they're doing the thing as a last resort. And then, like what, just basically I'm trying to say, emotions are very high.

Meg: 13:44

Oh, absolutely.

Kiona: 13:45

so I can only imagine the challenges.

Meg: 13:49

a few days before your egg retrieval, And you know, you're feeling kind of bloated because you're pumped with all these hormones. they make you go in and do a swab to see if you're COVID positive. And if you are COVID positive, they would cancel your cycle. So for anyone that'd be like throwing money at the wind, And I was like, Oh, hell no. So I remember they, they make you do the swab and I, I barely put it up my nose. I literally just like put it above my lip. Because I was like, there is no way that I'm canceling this cycle. Like,

Kiona: 14:15

right.

Meg: 14:16

know, cause it just felt like emotionally, financially, everything we put into this. So hopefully they don't listen to this.

Kiona: 14:24

I mean, hey, either way, it's in the past. They can't change it now.

Meg: 14:27

Yeah. Right.

Kiona: 14:28

And I mean, Hopefully, since COVID is not necessarily in our rearview mirror, but we are dealing with it in different ways, hopefully that is no longer the case for people that are going through this process. I understand with it being in the height of COVID where there were a lot of unanswered questions. but since we have more answers to the questions that we had back then. Hopefully, a COVID swab isn't necessary anymore, for that egg retrieval process.

Meg: 14:55

exactly.

Kiona: 14:56

So tell me about the day that you did your egg retrieval and then I want to bounce to the day of your embryo fertilization and all the things there.

Meg: 15:13

Yeah.

Kiona: 15:13

steps better than I do, so if, if that's wrong, just lead me, lead me.

Meg: 15:18

Yeah, it's powerful all the things you sort of forget once you go through experience like that I think the day of the egg retrieval the first egg retrieval. I was really nervous because you just don't know, you know The outcome that it will be and I remember I felt good And we ended up getting that's where we end up just getting the one embryo in the end. So, you know I was, I remember when they call to say, like, it's like a, maybe a two week process. They do the egg retrieval. Then a few days later, they see like how many mature, then they get incubated. And there's all these processes, which I'm also probably not detailing correctly. So, and at each step you lose eggs. So I started with 14, then it went down to 10. Then after the incubation period, I think it was five. Then they go to genetic testing. And ultimately it was one, and my provider had told me if I wanted two children, ideally they would want to have three total embryos. And I remember the day that they called to tell me I had one embryo, but they said it was a girl. I remember I really wanted a girl, and so I cried because I was so happy. I didn't care that I didn't get the three they wanted me to, I just wanted a girl, and that's what I got. So I felt, I was very happy.

Kiona: 16:26

That is so awesome. And the fact that, I didn't even think about the fact that they could tell you the sex of the baby that early because it's in the chromosomes, like they know what they're working with. So yeah,

Meg: 16:39

That was wild.

Kiona: 16:40

yeah, that's so wild. that is one way to decide. Like to have the moment to decide. Do you want to have a boy this time or do you want to have a girl? Like, if you have three girls and three boys, you're like, I want one of the boys and one of the girls at the same time if we're trying to have a twin pregnancy or something. I don't know how that works, but

Meg: 17:01

I know. We have another, We have a boy and girl on ice. So it is sort of interesting if you think about if you want another baby, like, do I want there to be two sisters? I have a sister, I love my relationship with my sister. Or, I always wanted a brother. You know, it's kind of strange to play, God or whoever you, whatever people believe in. But.

Kiona: 17:19

yeah. Yeah.

Meg: 17:20

And then the day of the embryo transfer, I felt really excited. I wasn't, I don't know, I, it was strange. I wasn't, I didn't feel nervous. I felt like really at peace. And my husband and I went for a really nice walk that morning. We got a bagel. I lived in New York City for a long time. I love bagels. we did a nice walk around Seward Park and we went to the clinic together and it was, it's very quick. They show you on the screen as they're inserting the embryo on this little, like, catheter, and then you can, like, see it happening, and it's all very strange. They open a sliding door, and someone, the embryologist in the laboratory, just, like, brings it over on, like, a little straw. It's just, it's very wild.

Kiona: 18:01

Wow.

Meg: 18:02

I was more of a language arts person, not a science person, growing up. So, to me, I was like, this is a straight, this is wild that they can do this. and then, afterwards, that two week wait was really hard, because when you're trying to conceive on your own, maybe I'm sure you are. I obviously was thinking about it, but I knew there was actually an embryo that was placed inside me and whether it, I tested positive or not. Like it was hard that two week window to wait was really hard. And they strongly encouraged us to not check on a pregnancy test to just wait to come in for the blood test. But of course I didn't do that. And so, I think I tested positive like two days before I was going in for the blood test. and I felt really happy. I felt very, very happy. And the fertility provider had told us that if we got a success or a positive pregnancy test, we had like an 85 percent chance of like caring to term. I just kind of sat with that really hoping that that would be true.

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Kiona: 20:25

The process sounds wild to me. Like, I've never been talked through the process of, like, how they are in and carrying the embryo from the lab to you. I knew that you had the opportunity to like watch it happen, cause sometimes you see that on movies or, like on YouTube or whatever, like you see it somewhere before, but like to be the person that is getting the embryo transferred into them, like to watch the process and to be like, Oh, trippy, like science,

Meg: 20:52

Yeah. Yeah. No, totally. It was. Yeah, it was a trip. It was definitely a trip. And then you just kind of leave. And then

Kiona: 21:00

Yeah. And they're like, all right, see you next time.

Meg: 21:02

Yeah. And you stay with them. You stay with them. I think for until week nine and then they have you transfer care to a regular either midwifery clinic or OB clinic. And then that's it.

Kiona: 21:14

And so, the curious part here for me is, in your guest request form, you had mentioned that you had, placenta previa for a while,

Meg: 21:26

I don't know if they technically diagnosed placenta previa, but I was like, it was very close to, covering, but eventually the last, the last minute sort of moved.

Kiona: 21:35

Yeah. And so, the reason why. I thought of that was because when they put the embryo in you, I wonder how much control they actually have over placement,

Meg: 21:47

Never thought about that.

Kiona: 21:48

Yeah, like, or is the goal to just get the embryo in your uterus? Or, like, where can they, I don't know, gravity works? Like, at what point does implantation actually happen, Because it's not immediate. It takes time. So, that's just my curious birth worker brain

Meg: 22:09

Yeah, I know, I know some friends that were like, Oh, we were told that we have to like lay in bed for 24 hours or 48 hours or our legs up, you know, I hear all these things from people. So I didn't get that instructions from our provider. I just, yeah, I kind of just went around, went about my life. But yeah, those are, those are good questions.

Kiona: 22:26

Yeah, I wonder if that's where those ideas came from. Like, lay with your pelvis elevated or, all these things. So, Super interesting. tell me a little bit about how your pregnancy with Romy went after you realized that, that little bean was sticking.

Meg: 22:42

Yeah. I had the normal sort of nausea. and fatigue that I think most people, not most people, but a lot of people experience. I think for me, I had really, really bad migraines that were pretty debilitating. That was really hard. I ended up having to go on some medication. they really took me out. So I think the migraines in the beginning were really challenging. I actually got COVID during pregnancy, which was pretty rough around like 16 weeks, I think. which actually later, I ended up with postpartum preeclampsia and they, some people speculate there's like a large correlation between people who've gotten COVID during pregnancy and postpartum preeclampsia. Some of the nurses told me that, at UW Northwest, anecdotally, they saw an uptick in that. but during my pregnancy, and then I got diagnosed with gestational diabetes, which was pretty I don't want to say rough, but it was challenging. I did not feel really prepared for that, nor educated and nor supported, with my clinical care team. And so the gestational diabetes was probably the biggest hurdle during pregnancy. I didn't feel great, like physically, but emotionally I felt really good. Whatever the pregnancy hormones were, I felt like really like, I don't know, I just felt really happy. one of my nervous habits is to chew my nails or like my skin around my nails, which I know is disgusting, but I feel like I didn't do that during pregnancy. I just like had a really, felt really calm, like emotionally and mentally, but physically it was, it was rough for me.

Kiona: 24:17

How was experiencing those symptoms after having been a birth worker for a while? like did you kind of anticipate that it would feel a certain way after watching some potential clients of yours go through it? Or basically how, how did it feel for you to be in the hot seat at that point? I guess.

Meg: 24:33

Yeah. I guess I really didn't know what to expect, right? Because everyone's pregnancy is so different and what they experience. Like I, I know my mother had like, like terrible nausea all nine months. I was kind of expecting things maybe to be a little hard, but I guess I, it was interesting being on the other side of things. I just think I felt the gestational diabetes honestly was the hardest thing. I think I've had two clients that have had gestational diabetes, but theirs was very well controlled and well maintained and mine was not, with diet. And so I had to eventually transfer out of midwifery care. I had to go on insulin. It was pretty defeating. I kind of just felt like I, like what was wrong with my body. Like I couldn't, get control of my fasting number. which is the, the blood sugar you take when you wake up in the morning and there's not much you can do to, like you can control what you eat during the day when you test your blood. But when you wake up in the morning, you can't really, there's not really a lot of ways to fix that. And that felt really frustrating. I remember I tried to have a bagel one time. I ate half a whole wheat bagel, scooped out, and then I walked two miles, and I still failed. And it just felt constantly, just like an uphill battle, you just kind of eat what you can eat one day, you sometimes can't eat the next day, I just constantly felt like everything I tried to do, sometimes it worked, sometimes it didn't, and I just felt like I was failing my daughter, I was like trying to my best to take care of her in me, and it like. Didn't work a lot of the times and that felt really upsetting.

Kiona: 26:07

Yeah, I can imagine that because, there's this process that we go through with conceiving or even how our are bodies are throughout pregnancy And I'm speaking from the role of a person who has become pregnant and been pregnant. And what that's like is we kind of expect our bodies to just know what to do. And we try to listen to the cues that our bodies provide. And, if we listen to those cues, but then it still doesn't do what it needs to do, we kind of get in this mindset of like, what is happening? What am I doing wrong? Why can't I just be pregnant?

Meg: 26:45

Yeah, totally. And it was feeling like my body couldn't do it. I'm like, I couldn't get pregnant on my own. I needed like science to aid in that. And while I felt grateful for that, it was hard to not take those things sort of personally. Like, why can't I do something my body is supposed to do? Right. And then when I was pregnant, I was like, I just kind of between like the. the placenta at first that was potentially going to be placenta previa, which didn't end up that way, to the COVID, to the gestational diabetes, the migraines. I'm like, why can't my body, like, what is wrong with my body? Like, that's like, kind of what I was feeling. And it definitely played into, as I was preparing for my labor and birth, because I was already not in this negative headspace, but just already really feeling like my body wasn't meant to do this.

Kiona: 27:27

Yeah, yeah. So let's go ahead and talk about that process. So while you were pregnant, did you happen to take any childbirth education classes or anything even though you were a birth worker at the time?

Meg: 27:40

I did take a childbirth ed class, like a virtual one, mostly so my husband and I could do together, even though I felt like I had a not a lot of knowledge, but I also wanted to be on the other side and be a patient or a pregnant person going through this experience. So we took an online course together. And then we took a newborn care class. And I read, some books and had my husband read some books. So despite being a doula, I did embrace being a pregnant person that was eager to kind of read different things and learn from different people.

Kiona: 28:14

You had mentioned that you had to transfer out of midwifery care. Tell me where your intended place to birth was and then how that had to shift for you throughout your pregnancy.

Meg: 28:24

Yeah, so I had, from the beginning I had intended to, birth with the midwives at UW Northwest. And I was able to be under their care for the first, 26 weeks until I got diagnosed with gestational diabetes. And having gestational diabetes doesn't, necessarily mean, you have to transfer outta their care. But because I ended up having to go on insulin, that sort of management had to be moved to, the OB team. at one point there was talk of me having to transfer and go under MFM maternal fetal medicine at UW Montlake and I really didn't wanna give birth there. I really wanted to give birth at UW Northwest. And so that's the gestational diabetes was kind of, now I know you're more likely to get it if you were pregnant a second time around. And I feel more prepared next time around, to obviously manage it, but I feel like I got a lot of my information from Instagram or other people. The midwives, connect you with like a diabetes educator and they're great, but I did really feel kind of on my own in a lot of ways. So eventually I ended up, transferring to, the OBs at UW Northwest. And I had a lovely provider, Dr. Anna Pettigetti, and she was really supportive, throughout the process and reassuring me because my biggest fear throughout pregnancy or my biggest fear in labor was like, having a shoulder dystocia and I know with gestational diabetes, sometimes you can have bigger babies and I couldn't get it out of my head. I'm like, I'm setting myself up for a shoulder dystocia at this birth, I think in my notes, it was like in capital letters, like patient is terrified of shoulder dystocia. so eventually with the obese at UW Northwest, and that is ultimately where I gave birth.

Kiona: 30:09

Nice. Okay. Yeah. So it sounds like it was a somewhat smooth transfer since it was in the same hospital setting with switching providers. So I think that it's important to mention how you said that just because you get gestational diabetes doesn't necessarily mean that you have to risk out of midwifery care. It's more of Once you are unable to manage it with your diet and need the extra assistance from insulin, that's when it becomes just that much more higher risk in order for you to need to be in OB care instead. tell me a little bit about the moment when you had to go into labor because from your guest request form, you told me that you were not able to spontaneously go into labor. You needed to get an induction. So let's talk about that.

Meg: 30:54

Yeah, as with gestational diabetes, the ideal timeframe for delivering, I think is 39 weeks. I knew that the moment I had gestational diabetes, I was like, I'm going to be induced, which initially I wasn't, so thrilled about, I think as a birth worker, in your mind, you just think, how long inductions can be, the number of interventions that are sometimes part of inductions. It was hard for me to not think like, I'm going to go into this induction. It's going to be a lengthy process. And then I'm eventually going to end up with a C section because my body won't be able to do this. I guess I was kind of going to a dark place. and that was challenging for me, but I got a doula, Lori Levy, who's a doula here in Seattle, and that was really helpful. so we really spent a lot of time of our prenatals, like kind of how to advocate for myself during the induction process. and still being able to feel like, I had options. And, it didn't mean I necessarily had to go down this exact path just because I had an induction, if that makes sense. So we kind of spent a lot of times, and my care team was really good. They kind of knew like my thoughts and feelings on it. I was really hesitant to get the Foley balloon. I really didn't want to get the Foley balloon. and so eventually when I, the night of my induction, when we went in, I really strongly advocated to just start with miso. to see if my body could maybe just take off on its own. and I did like a lot of acupuncture beforehand. I really attribute my birth process and eventually how quick it went, to my acupuncturist. I think my body, she really got my body ready. The day of my induction, like I lost my mucus plug, my body felt different. So I really think, I might've just gone into labor on my own possibly that night or the next day. I mean, I guess we don't really know, but I really felt a shift in my body that day, you know? and so the night of my induction, I was able to advocate no Foley balloon. Dr. Lewis was on board with that. And so I just got the, half dose of miso, took a little sleep aid and got another half dose of miso a couple hours later. And then my body just took off. and so I was kind of contracting too frequently where they couldn't give me another miso. and so around like, I think they gave me the second dose around like 11 PM. I went to sleep. I woke up at 1 AM and I was like, okay, I'm feeling this kind of got on hands and knees kind of walking around. Around 4 a. m. I woke up my husband and I was getting in the tub, and I had all back labor, all in my back. I never felt a contraction in the front, not once the entire time. and, but I was contracting too frequently, so by shift change, the doctor was like, we have to check you before I leave, because if you're, still just one to two centimeters, we're gonna have to place the Foley. and so they checked me and I was like five centimeters and I started crying cause I was so happy that I didn't need the Foley. I was really happy. I'm really thankful to my care team and to Lori for really, allowing me to advocate for myself to just be like, can I just start with a Miso and just see what my body does? Let's just see if my body can, get into labor on its own without needing the Foley. So I feel really lucky to have bypassed that. and at that point I was feeling it. my husband got really good at the double hip squeeze, he'd always kind of wondered about all these things that I do for folks in labor and all the different comfort techniques. And I think he got a good taste of things. at one point he tried to brush his teeth and I told him that the hell he would not go brush his teeth. Cause I needed all hands on deck with the double hip squeeze. and yeah, my plan for my birth was, I always wanted an epidural. I just wanted to get an epidural when I was in active labor or just really, I feel like my body was like in a good labor pattern. So once they checked me and told me I was 5 centimeters, I waited a little bit, and I said, and eventually maybe an hour later, I asked for my epidural. and then this is where the story sort of gets interesting. I had to wait like an hour and a half for the epidural. I don't know if the anesthesiologist was, tending to someone else or in the O. R. And that's, that was a very memorable moment during my labor. I felt like my, Tailbone was breaking in half and I was in so much pain on hands and knees and I recall actually saying I was like I'm gonna burn the anesthesiologist's house down I was just full of rage in that moment because once you decide that you know that you make that decision to go forward with an Epidural you want it and so I just felt my, I'm like something, my body is like, things are happening. Like I just felt a shift in my body. And when I was experiencing, he got there, I'm not even sure how I was able to sit. And then they checked me right after and I was eight centimeters. So I think I just, my body just kind of went. and then I kind of rested for a little bit. My water broke on its own. I didn't need Pitocin. I kind of hung out for like an hour. and then they checked me around like 11:30. I think I was, complete and then I pushed for like two hours and she was born at 1:56 PM. So all in all, from like first contraction until baby, it was like 12 hours. and I got the epidural, which I wanted, I'm someone who felt I didn't want to feel out of control. And like, I was afraid of what I would. I don't know. I, I just wanted to get the epidural when I was in active labor. That was sort of my main goal. but I feel really grateful. They do, I think half doses of miso every two hours at Northwest, so I basically got one full dose of miso my body just did it. so I sort of surprised myself. Pushing was pretty hard. it's strange. I think even though I had a lot of back labor. She wasn't OP, like she wasn't sunny side up, I guess. So I'm not really sure something, in my body, the way she was positioned, but pushing hurt a lot. I think just the way she was in my body, my doula had to massage and put a lot of counterpressure on my low back the entire time when I pushed. but yeah, then she came out and I got to kind of pull her up as she came And it was really beautiful.

Kiona: 36:53

Oh that sounds awesome. Definitely sounds like there was no shoulder dystocia, which is absolutely amazing. And then it also sounds like you had a really awesome support team around you during your birth. And That is something that is really important. And it also sounds like you had a really short birth when it comes to induction.

Meg: 37:18

Yeah, I actually, I really wanted her birthday to kind of, cause I sort of could choose which day went in for my induction. I kind of was thinking like, Oh, I'll go in on Monday, December 12th. Cause she'll probably be born on December 14th. but she ended up being born on December 13th. So I, I went in with the idea of like, I know these inductions could be painfully long sometimes. So I was really so happy with my birth. especially after feeling like it was hard for me to get pregnant. I didn't feel great being pregnant. I just really felt like my body had a hard time doing those things. And so to really have a birth that went to me, like so textbook and it was just honestly, really, dare I say I liked giving birth.

Kiona: 38:08

Hey, say it, man, because it's important, like, it's okay to like giving birth, it doesn't have to be this really traumatic event, and it sucks when it is, it sucks when it really is traumatic for people, but, I loved giving birth, which is why it's bittersweet to know that we're not going to be having more kids, and it was unexpected to, like, have that decision made, but. I will continue to support people and live vicariously through them as they push their babies out and say, you can do it, you know?

Meg: 38:39

Totally. And especially as a birth worker, right? You've seen so many births and so many scenarios and, you know, leading up to my birth, I wasn't as anxious as I thought it would be about going, into labor. Like, I don't know, I can lean towards anxiety sometimes. And the day of my induction, I went on a walk, by the water. Cause I love the ocean. That's like kind of where I grew up. And I just chatted with Romy and I was like, okay, I'm It's you and me tonight. Like we got a plan. We got to do this. We got to help each other out. You know, I really had this like chat with her. I feel like she listened and, I really, it was just having attended some traumatic births or hard births. It's really hard, but I kept having to remind myself all of the beautiful, empowering, inspiring, normal births that I've also supported over the course of my career. And so. going into the induction with that mindset was really helpful for me to know that this doesn't have to be traumatic. It can be a birth that you want. it can be a birth that is beautiful. And I really felt like mine was,

Kiona: 39:44

I love that I love that so much. And I love that you talked to her the day of your induction and you're like, Let's do this. We are a team, you know. Hey, that could have really impacted how quick it was and how smooth it ended up being. I am a strong believer that there are two people in this birthing game, okay? It's not just the birthing person, but the baby as well. So love that. speaking of connection with Romy, let's talk about how your postpartum time went. Did you decide to breastfeed? How was the immediate postpartum in the hospital? Tell me all the things.

Meg: 40:16

Postpartum in the hospital went seemingly well. because, you know, once you give birth, I didn't have to, I was on the sort of restrictive eating with the gestational diabetes. So, I got a Coke and a Domino's pizza, which was quite satisfying. immediate postpartum was okay. I did breastfeed. In the beginning, I needed some support with the nipple shield. eventually, we kind of found a rhythm at home with nursing. eventually I went on to sort of do pumping and nursing for a period of time around four months. She oddly like kind of started refusing the boob. And so I kind of went to exclusively pumping, which I have a lot of respect for people who do that. It is tiring and it is a lot. and then around like two months after that, around six months, she decided she wanted the full boob. And now 16 months later, she's still nursing. so it was a bumpy beginning. I'm proud of myself for staying committed to it, and in the beginning, I didn't, love it as much, but now I love nursing. I'm still nursing, and I feel really grateful that I get to do that, and that's a really special bond I have with her, but it was definitely kind of, there were some hard days.

Kiona: 41:24

Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. And I'm a strong believer in saying that even though Nursing is supposed to be like a natural thing that we do. It doesn't mean that it's easy or that everything goes as planned because it is challenging. There are things that people don't even imagine would be an issue that become an issue. And baby, again, plays a huge part in the success rate of nursing. So,

Meg: 41:50

Absolutely, and I had good support with that, too. I had, also, really lucky. I had, postpartum doula. and then Tiffany Renee, who does lactation, she was really supportive and I had some phone calls with her. So I had good support, which I think is pretty critical for that postpartum period. And that really helped me to stick with it. and then I ended up, I think I mentioned earlier about a week later, I ended up with postpartum preeclampsia, which would, that was kind of a shock to me. to me. I had very low blood pressure throughout, like no sort of signs, outward signs of that during labor. And it was about a week after she was born, maybe six days, I was really having a bad headache that I could not shake. And it was right, when there was like an ice storm happening in Seattle. And, we actually had randomly had a blood pressure cuff. I'm not even sure why. And I took it and it was pretty high. And I called over to the hospital And they said, I think you should come in. And I ended up staying for two nights and being on magnesium.

Kiona: 42:50

mm,

Meg: 42:50

That was pretty hard. Magnesium did not make me feel great. I had a lot of anxiety when I was there, at the hospital. because I felt like I couldn't really care for Romy because the magnesium made me feel so terribly. So I felt like I just, had like a full blown anxiety attack. My doula came, which was very sweet and helped take care of Romy so I could just rest. But the postpartum preeclampsia kind of snuck up on me and something I wasn't really thinking about could happen after the fact., but luckily once I got home from the hospital and on blood pressure medication for a little bit, then all my symptoms went away. But that was really scary because I think a lot of people. In those early days at home, you're not really prioritizing yourself or thinking about yourself and your wellbeing because you're focused on this new little human. And so I really didn't want to go to the hospital. I almost didn't even check my blood pressure and I'm just really glad that I did like trust that something wasn't right. I think a lot of times new parents, especially like birthing people, like I feel like it's easy to just kind of put your health on the back burner.

Kiona: 43:54

Yeah. Absolutely. That's definitely a very easy thing to do, especially with a sleep deprived brain and a sleep deprived partner and a sleep deprived, hungry, tired newborn, all the things coming at you at once. So, yeah. I am happy to hear that you also took your blood pressure because, you Pre eclampsia is no joke, you know, and then postpartum pre eclampsia is no joke, and it's very dangerous, so I'm glad you checked it, and that you got the help you needed.

Meg: 44:26

Yeah, same, same here. My parents came when she was just born, at two weeks, which was really lovely. And then, I'm really lucky, my Three of my closest friends in the whole world all live on the east coast and they all came separately to support me and my husband and Romy and I feel, so grateful that they could come and be with us during that time. They, cooked for us, took care of us, snuggled with Romy, all the things. so I feel like I feel very lucky to have really close friends that were able to come out and support us during that time.

Kiona: 44:58

I love that. And I love that your support was able to come to you even though they were completely on the opposite side of the country, they made way over to support you guys over here in the Pacific Northwest. I love that so much.

Meg: 45:11

It's so critical in those beginning days and weeks. I feel like, whatever that might look like, right? Whether it's a doula or family or friends, community, I think it really makes all the difference. and then I ended up actually struggling with postpartum anxiety, but for me, it was kind of also a shock in this journey. It didn't come up until like month four. And I think even as a birth worker and knowing folks and supporting folks. I think everyone that I supported, it always sort of happened in the first couple weeks. and for me, symptoms didn't really start showing up until she was almost four months old. And I think I was unaware that postpartum anxiety can creep in well beyond those first couple of weeks. and eventually I went on medication, which really helped me and I'm really grateful that I took that step. I was really. hesitant. I had never feel very lucky. I've never been on any medication to help with mental health stuff. it was really scary for me to kind of be in this place where I really was feeling not okay. and it took me a while to realize I wasn't okay. so yeah, around month four is when I decided to address it. And it was, it didn't really start happening until maybe month three or month four, but. I didn't, go get help until then.

Kiona: 46:26

Yeah. And I was actually literally just about to ask that question because you had mentioned that you had some intense anxiety when you went into the hospital to get treated with for your postpartum preeclampsia. And the anxiety that hits you like is totally understandable of like, will I still be able to care for Romy? Will I still be able to do X, Y, and Z? Like how long am I going to have to be here? Is this going to work? You know, all of that is running through your head. it is so true that it can really hit you like a sack of bricks. It's so unexpected and I will say it's always kind of portrayed that postpartum mood anxiety and disorders happen immediately, right after you have your baby within the first few weeks, first six weeks even. But it can happen literally any time, and I think for it to be considered postpartum, it's within the first year of your baby's life. Some people don't experience it until they have to go back to work, or until their partner leaves, or until life's quote unquote normalcy comes back. You know, you have to have this new normal. So I appreciate you talking about how it kind of felt delayed and you were like, whoa, this is different. I wasn't expecting that. And I also think it's important to mention that you're saying that as a birth worker, like someone who is supporting people in this space and more aware of what signs and symptoms to look out for. so I guess that actually leads me to the question. Do you think being a birth worker yourself helped you notice these things in yourself?

Meg: 48:02

Absolutely. I think so. in every step of the way, I feel like I wouldn't have really advocated for myself during my induction had I not been a birth worker and supported folks doing that. especially with the signs and symptoms of preeclampsia, I was really tired. I really wanted to sit in peace and eat my burrito. I didn't want to go to the hospital, you know, like all of these things, but I feel like, I kind of was playing through different scenarios in my head of past clients and how I was supporting them. And, I think that the tricky one was the sort of postpartum anxiety. I really, for whatever reason was thinking that I sort of, passed or not. What's the right word? Like I, I missed the, you know, Oh, okay. That was supposed to happen that week three or, week four, I guess I missed that boat. Like, I'm good. And then when things started to creep up around those like month three, month four, I was kind of like, Whoa, like I didn't, I, I thought I was sort of lucky enough that I didn't have to experience that. But, I'm really glad that I reached out to my provider. But I will say this. I felt, every time you go to the pediatrician's office, they have you fill out that scale, right? And several times I went for Romy's appointments and I'd fill out the scale and the person on the receiving end would definitely be able to see that my answers were started to get different, but no one ever reached out to me. No one ever followed up with me. And I don't really, I guess, know the role of the pediatrician's office in this, but for me, at some point was like, well, maybe it's not a big deal because no one really, I'm like, and I might, I'm like, why are they giving me this form if they're not checking in on me? You know what I mean?

Kiona: 49:38

Mm-Hmm.

Meg: 49:39

And so I felt it took a lot of time and energy to like find it within me to make an appointment to go get some help. I feel like it's hard to dig deep when you're feeling in a low place. so that's like something for me, I always think about like, I feel like the birth world is really saturated with like support and especially here in Seattle, but my postpartum anxiety and the support during that time period, I feel like there definitely was a lack. I felt a lack of support. and I know we're a well resourced city, but I still really felt Aspects of my care team, weren't there in a way that I feel like someone who's going through this would need. Does that make sense?

Kiona: 50:21

Yeah, no, that makes absolute sense. And I am right there with you and saying, why are they giving you that form if they're not going to touch base? And at that point I feel like, Oh, they're just checking off the box. They're just following protocol. They're just doing what they're supposed to do. But do they even calculate the score? Some people don't calculate the score, right? They're literally checking off the box. Okay. The paper's in her folder. That means it's completed. and I also agree with you and saying, A lot of people experience the lack of support postpartum and we are in a really well resourced city especially when it comes to like birth advocacy and birth support. I feel like our birth community here is quite large and are moving mountains and I feel like we're doing better now with getting postpartum up and rolling and more to the forefront but it's slow coming because it's hard to get people that have never experienced postpartum mood disorders or anxieties, to understand what it actually feels like or means to be depressed or to fit into that category. Does that make sense? I feel like it's, I'm saying it in a weird way.

Meg: 51:31

no, absolutely. Absolutely. luckily I was never like in some deep crisis, like, that's what I kept thinking when I, would reflect back on how no one responded to this. Like, what if someone was really at a point of crisis where they really needed someone to check in on them? And so I always like to this day, I'm like, Wanted to almost reach out, like, what do you do with that piece of paper? What is your process? I ended up going on Zoloft, which was really wonderful for me, it really helped me. and then in the journey of my body, just sometimes, being difficult. I ended up getting a very rare side effect of the Zoloft called, lymphocytic colitis. I ended up having to stop the Zoloft, go on steroids, and now I can no longer take any SSRI or SNRI, like the class of drugs for anxiety meds, ever again. And so I'm still kind of, in a weird place with it because now, to your point. This happened in, I went on Zoloft last April, and then I got a colonoscopy because I was having some issues in November, which revealed I had this, colitis. Had to stop the Zoloft, and then now by the time I need to get on something else, you're pretty limited in what you can take if you're still breastfeeding, if you're thinking about getting pregnant again, if you can't take an SSRI or an SNRI, and because I'm past one year, postpartum, psychiatrist, no one will meet with me, because, yeah, I'm past that one year mark. and I feel like my OB couldn't really help. I'm still kind of dealing with this to say, it's an ongoing process and I'm still feeling like I'm hitting some roadblocks while trying to manage, this new normal.

Kiona: 53:12

Yeah. I absolutely feel that those that do specifically support people in the postpartum time need to realize that postpartum is truly forever. at least push this off to the first two, maybe even three years because people are still nursing. People are still dealing with these postpartum struggles and to just say, okay, you're at the year mark, adios, like, what, where do you turn then? cause then at that point you have to go and see a different doctor and get a different referral and then to start it all over again and then be like, wait, but I can't take any SSRIs or SNRIs because of this. And then they're, so they're like, well, why are you here for? What do I, you know, it's like so much work on your end and

Meg: 53:56

That, I'm at that point where I just have to like, not giving up, but I'm like, I'm Can't get an appointment here. This one doesn't take my insurance. Like it's just feeling hard. And so I've just kind of at this point, found other ways to sort of manage it. But for now I'm just going to have to figure this out on my own through acupuncture or, exercise or whatever it is, because it. just was like not feeling easy. And even if things are going swimmingly, just life is hard with a new baby or kids. So. A journey.

Kiona: 54:26

A journey. is definitely a way to describe it. Lots of ups and downs, round and rounds, windy turns, all of the things. It's literally everything. Meg, I truly appreciate you coming on and telling us your story and your journey to get you to where you are now with your wonderful Romy and your little family. I feel like now is a good time to kind of navigate towards our three final closing questions. and the first question I want to ask you is, what is one piece of advice that you would give to all pregnant people to prepare for labor or pregnancy and birth?

Meg: 54:57

One piece of advice. I mean, I guess the obvious one would be to, have a good support team. I highly endorse having a doula as a doula myself. A lot of people are like, Oh, you're a doula. Are you going to have your own doula? I'm like, absolutely. I'm like, I cannot doula myself in labor. I don't think. so I think, getting a doula and even if that can feel cost prohibitive for folks, there's so many ways that, this birth world in Seattle show up for people. So there's. Always, a way to get support, even if you're feeling like it might be out of your price range. I feel like our community shows up in that way. Everyone deserves a doula. So getting a doula. And I think other pieces of advice is, I think, you know, your body better than anyone else and really trusting yourself, your needs and your body, during the labor process.

Kiona: 55:43

Yeah, I agree. And I think those are amazing pieces of advice. And yes, in the local Seattle area, there are a lot of, resources and we have I would say we have a really good amount of resources that will help people get a doula for those that want one. one. example is Open Arms Perinatal Services, where they have a program that you can apply to to get a doula if you can't afford one. and there are more popping up. I feel like our birth community here in Seattle is really starting to thrive even more and collaborate with one another to make sure that our community actually has the support that they need.

Meg: 56:17

absolutely.

Kiona: 56:19

Yeah, so that leads me to my next question, which is, what is one resource that we could share with the listeners on your behalf?

Meg: 56:29

I mean, I personally would recommend my acupuncturist for folks here in Seattle. Her name is Jessica Timmons. I think I mentioned this earlier. I fully believe that she is I think she's actually pretty known for like, getting people's body ready for labor. And especially if you have like an induction coming up, I really ramped up the amount of times I went to see her the last couple of weeks. I think she brought out the big guns the last few days and I really felt a shift in my body, like a few days in the day of my induction. And I really attribute to her, to my fast induction and really beautiful labor. So shout out to Jessica Timmons.

Kiona: 57:09

Yeah, I actually recently met Jessica. I did, and I was asking her what, you know, similar things like what she does in the birth world, because it was for like a doula Q& A, doula meet and greet with the family. And I love that she does that. And I'm like, that's so cooL. I remember when I met Jessica, I went to a Meet the Doulas event, and it was located at the Tilia Natural Health, which is located in Seattle, Washington. And the, name of Jessica's business is Artemisia Healing Arts. I hope that I'm saying that correctly, but Jessica is super awesome. And I have also heard that Jessica is the one that puts people in labor. So

Meg: 57:53

Yes. Highly recommend

Kiona: 57:55

The last and final question that I have for you is if you could describe your birth with one word, what would it be?

Meg: 58:04

Empowering. For sure. I think I sort of maybe the theme of this conversation is I really kind of felt like my body couldn't do things that it was supposed to do, like get pregnant, keep a pregnancy, didn't feel very good at being pregnant either. And so my birth for me was extremely empowering. I feel like I was an advocate for myself throughout the process. I feel like I sort of reclaimed my body back in some way. for me it was, my birth was healing and empowering for sure. It was beautiful. It wasn't traumatic. and I told you I, I liked it and I hope I get to do it again.

Kiona: 58:44

Yeah, I love all of that, and it definitely to me sounds like it was a journey worth traveling in order to have baby Romy in your arms, but every journey comes with ups and downs and challenges and So many things that will just push you to your limits of self doubt and unpreparedness, but you are here and you made it to the other side of this particular part of your journey and so I'm excited to just see how you do and how you go in the future and with both your business and in motherhood and parenthood. It's just something else, I gotta tell you.

Meg: 59:21

It is something else. It's, it's been the greatest gift and it hasn't come without, some hard days. But, I'm so happy to be on the other side.

Kiona: 59:30

Yes, 100%. Awesome. Thank you so much, Meg.

Meg: 59:34

Thank you so much. It was lovely to have this conversation with you.

Kiona: 59:48

During this interview with Meg, I learned so much more about IVF and postpartum preeclampsia. Meg. I want to thank you personally, once again for sharing your story on your journey to parenthood. It was bumpy, but you made it through and I'm excited to see what your future has in store. I'm sure many of the listeners can relate to your journey as well. Speaking of you listeners, please. Don't forget to join the private Facebook group for all of the birthdays we know at podcast listeners. All you have to do is go to birthasweknowitpodcast.com/facebook and request to join. And if you want to support the production of the podcast, go to birthasweknowitpodcast.com/support and become a patron. By supporting the podcast. You make it possible for me to keep making these amazing episodes and learning alongside you through people's individual birth stories. In the next episode, I am interviewing Karin Freeland, who is also the author of her memoir, the ins and outs of my vagina. This book is absolutely amazing. I loved it. And it was a very quick read. But for the interview, we will be talking about miscarriage, ectopic, pregnancy, and what it was like for Karin to give birth to her two sons. This is one you don't want to miss because there's lots of fun information being shared. All right. Bye for now.