Birth As We Know It ™️-Birth Stories and Experiences

62-Allison Goyne-2 Vaginal Births-NICU-Believe in Birth

• Episode 62

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In this episode, Allison dives into how her first birth with her daughter was traumatic and how it led her to become a birth doula. She also shares the the details of how she felt when she was unexpectedly pregnant with her son after being adamant of “one and done” in addition to sharing about her redemptive home birth.

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Disclaimer: This podcast is intended for educational purposes only with no intention of giving or replacing any medical advice. I, Kiona Nessenbaum, am not a licensed medical professional. All advice that is given on the podcast is from the personal experience of the storytellers. All medical or health-related questions should be directed to your licensed provider. 

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Intro:

Welcome to Birth As We Know It, a podcast that is dedicated to recognizing the many different ways that birth unfolds. I am your host, Kiona Nessenbaum. I have experienced birth as a doula, a student midwife, a birth assistant, and as a mother of three amazing children of my own. After attending over 140 births, I've realized that each birth experience is truly unique. So make sure you subscribe and join me as we are guided through many different birth experiences through the lens of the storyteller. Please be aware that some of these stories can be triggering to hear. So feel free to pause, take a breath, and come back and listen whenever you're ready. With that said, let's prep ourselves to dive deep and get detailed about what really happens in the birth space.

Disclaimer:

As a reminder, this podcast is intended for educational purposes only and has no intention of giving or replacing any medical advice. All advice that is given on the podcast is from the personal experiences of the storytellers. All medical or health related questions should be directed to your license provider.

Kiona:

Hello everybody, and welcome back to the Birth As We Know It podcast I am excited to say that today I have on Allison Goyne, who is the owner of Believe in Birth. She is located in Richmond, Virginia, and today she is going to be sharing her two personal birth experiences with us. So welcome, Allison. Thanks so much for coming.

Allison:

Thanks for having me.

Kiona:

Yeah, I'm super excited to dive into the details of your story because you had stated on your guest request form that your birth experience is what inspired you to become a birth worker, but also that your second was not as planned as your first. So let's get into the details of those. Let's go ahead and start off with you, just telling us a little bit about yourself and who's in your family.

Allison:

So as you already stated, my name is Allison. I'm out of Richmond, Virginia, and me and my husband have four children. I have two stepchildren, Aubrey and Aiden. And then my husband and I have Kai and Railyn together. Railyn is five, and then Kai just turned six months.

Kiona:

Oh, awesome. I love that. Such a little tiny babe. let's go ahead and dive into the details of the conception of Railyn.

Allison:

All right. So with Railyn, my husband and I at the time, we did things a little backwards. So at the time, he was not my husband, but we had been dating, I want to say, a little over a year,and we had discussed wanting to grow our family. So we were like, okay, well, let's start trying for a baby like, whatever. So we said, I want to say maybe it was like one of those not preventing but not trying situations.

Kiona:

Mm hmm.

Allison:

It happens. And then if it doesn't, it doesn't. So after about three months of trying, but not trying, it didn't happen. And he actually proposed in April of 2017. And I was like, okay, wait, if this is how we're going to do this, then let's get married and then have a baby. Do it the right way, you know, whatever that even means these days. But I was like, let's just focus on the wedding and then we'll resort to trying for a baby again later. Well, probably. Like three weeks, four weeks after he proposed. So I found out I was pregnant. So you can kind of connect the dots there. So I was like, okay. I was at work at the time when I found out. I work in logistics or trucking. Completely opposite of birth in women by. one of the technicians that I was working with had come up to me and was like, I promise you, I'm not being rude in any manner, but are you pregnant and you're not telling anybody? And I was like, Oh, no, absolutely not. Like, why would you even ask me that? Well, it had sat with me all day long, so I was like, okay, maybe I'll just go test on my lunch break for fun. I didn't eat lunch that day because that test came back positive so quick. I remember calling my sister, calling my best friend Lizzie at the time and. I don't think I've even told my husband immediately. I'm pretty sure we waited. It was like probably a solid 24 hours. I was like, Oh, I have to make this whole cute little box. It's got to be this whole ordeal completely opposite of when I told him with my son. But anyway, so that's what we did. My sister, my, my sister's name is Harley, and then my friend Lizzie, we got together, we made this cute little you're going to be a dad again box. And he came home that night and I presented him this box and I was like, Oh, I'm pregnant. And it was just this, you know, horror deal. And that's basically how that went. I was very excited. While he she wasn't necessarily planned, we had already been playing with fire, so it was just like, Oh, okay, well, that happened

Kiona:

Yeah. Oh, my gosh. That actually sounds like such a cute little announcement. And I'm so intrigued into what your colleagues saw in you to even ask that question. Did they mention why they were asking if you were pregnant?

Allison:

He, didn't. No, he never did. He was just like, You just look like you're glowing. And I. very clearly remember saying glowing. I'm about to start my period. I feel like crap. Like I'm definitely not glowing. What's so funny about it, too, is when I left, I was like, I want Hardee's. Like, I just want parties for lunch. So I grab this test. I go to Hardee's to get my life, and I was like, Whatever, Let me just use the bathroom while I'm here before I order my lunch. And it was positive and I like, Oh my goodness, my first baby, my first pregnancy, my story as I found out I was pregnant in a Hardee's bathroom. On my lunch break because one of my co-workers just had the audacity that day to ask me if I was pregnant. And with even funnier is I did not tell him for like months. I was like, Oh, I guess that's a good time to let you know. You were actually right. I just couldn't come back to work and tell you before I told my husband.

Kiona:

Oh, my gosh, That is so funny. I wonder how he feels like knowing that he saw it in you before you even realized.

Allison:

I

Kiona:

Yeah.

Allison:

don't work at that location any like at that company anymore. But, you know, now that you say that, I kind of wish I would have asked because it's like, well, how do you even know that? Like, what about me? Looked different.

Kiona:

Yeah.

Allison:

Mr. Balotelli.

Kiona:

You were glowing. That's enough. Let's just keep it at that.

Allison:

Know, I was just glowing. I was beautiful.

Kiona:

Yeah. So after you found out you were pregnant, how did the remainder of your pregnancy go? Like, did you have a lot of intense symptoms? tell me more about that.

Allison:

surprisingly no like it was I. Never had morning sickness. I mean, I had the normal, like first trimester bloating, but I wasn't extra emotional, at least from what I can remember. It's been five years, but I was excited just. Went on about it. We told our family and friends pretty early on and then. I do remember the only time I got sick. My entire pregnancy. My husband is a travel ball softball coach and we were on the way to a game and I was eating on the way there. My go to at the time was just a house salad with Italian dressing, and I have not touched Italian dressing since that day. So that was like the only time I got sick. But even my pregnancy as a whole, as far as, like, not feeling good, like I gained a lot of weight pregnant So I didn't feel good in that aspect, but I it was a textbook pregnancy, I mean. I don't have I don't really have any complaints other than, well, for my pregnancy, other than just I got I did get really big. I gained a lot of weight at the time, like knowing now what I didn't know then. I didn't know anything about nutrition or taking care of my body or anything like that. And I definitely did not attempt to learn. looking back, I say, I'm like, Oh, the reason my pregnancies were so different is because my frontal lobe wasn't developed yet. Like, that's that's got to be what it was because now I look back like, and I'm like, Alison, why were you just not you didn't do anything to put in any leg work for that pregnancy or labor at all

Kiona:

So does that include, like not receiving any childbirth education? Like, did you seek out any education before going into labor?

Allison:

No, so my mother in law at the time was a labor and delivery nurse. so I just blindly went into it. I was like, Oh, well, I've got her and then I've got my husband and I've seen plenty of TV. I'm just going to go into labor and I'm going to go into the hospital and I'm going to have a baby. Spoiler alert it does not happen that way ever with any woman. Nine times out of ten. TV has really, really set me up for failure. But what was interesting is my friend Lizzie that I mentioned previously, she. Told me throughout my pregnancy. She was like you really have to watch this documentary. The business. Born. Oh, I'll watch it. I'll watch it. I'll watch. Now I'm constantly telling women, you should really watch this documentary.

Kiona:

When did you end up watching it then?

Allison:

I did watch it, but it was after I had her I don't know the exact time frame, but it was definitely after I had her. But before I conceived my son.

Kiona:

So when you did watch the business of being born, did it hit you differently after you had experienced your experience?

Allison:

It did with my daughter, I experienced a lot of birth trauma I had all kinds of postpartum anxiety, postpartum rage. And in the depths of it, I didn't realize that. Because I don't know if you've heard that same before, but you don't realize you're in it until you're out of it. So when I was in it, I didn't realize it. But I do remember watching the business of being born during my postpartum journey. I don't I can't tell you the time frame, but I do remember watching it and thinking to myself, like, Wow, it all makes sense now. Necessarily made it better, but it made sense, like why things went the way that they went, because they'd been going that. So my daughter was probably it was right after her third birthday, actually. I finally looked at my husband and I think I have to go to therapy. Like I can't continue to live like this. Like, I watched this documentary at some point. I'm constantly on edge. I don't know what's going on with me. I cry every day and I've chalked it up as a personality trait for postpartum. So in January of like 2021. I started therapy. to process my birth trauma that then turned into all kinds of other things. I had kind of like closed this chapter of I'm not having any more kids, I'm at peace. You know, while the things that happened to me or my birth experience with my daughter. I won't necessarily say that I blame myself, but in a sense I do have to take accountability that I did not put in the legwork for the education

Kiona:

let's go ahead and dive into the details like let's talk about. What were the thoughts in your head? When did you realize you were in labor? And then we'll go from there.

Allison:

So throughout my pregnancy, like I said previously, I was like, Oh, like when I go into labor, like, I'll just go into labor and I'll labor at home as long as possible. I had mentioned wanting an unmedicated birth but didn't do much legwork to. Get to that or understand how to achieve that. it's important to note that she was due on December 26. So I remember going to I think it was probably like my 39 week check-up with me OB and. she said, you know, We can. Schedule your induction if you'd like. Because I wanted her there. Like this was the only doctor I'd seen my whole pregnancy. I did not see a rotation of doctors. She was like, I work Christmas Eve, indoo Christmas Day, a 24 hour shift. If you want to schedule your induction weekend. I didn't know much about it at the time, but I knew I didn't want to be induced and I knew I didn't want pitocin. December 25th. I woke up that morning crampy. And it was probably like 530 in the morning, everybody sleeping. And I was like, Oh, this. I don't know what this is. I'm going to take a shower. So I take a shower. Start a load of laundry. Terrible idea, by the way, if you're having especially if you're having a hospital birth because you don't know when you're going to be back. Laundry that you start. But I started a little laundry and then I just sat on my birth ball and watch Law and Order. Fun fact, my entire pregnancy I binged. Watch season one to season 20 of Law and Order SVU, of all things. That's just what I clung to. It was like, I have no idea why I do that. But that's what I was watching and. I don't know what time it was. Probably after like an hour of having contractions. They were they were a little sporadic. I remember them being like 3 minutes apart, 10 minutes apart, and they were achy, but they didn't, like, hurt. But I wake my husband up and I'm like, Hey, look, I think that we should go to your mom's. So at the time, I lived about an hour and a half from the hospital. And again, in my mind, I'm like, Oh, well, if this goes like anything like TV, we need to be closer to the. I don't want to have the baby at home. I don't want to have a car birth, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. So we pack up and we head to my in-laws and I think we got there, I don't remember probably like around seven or so, and I just labor there all day. I remember at some point my mother in law asking if I wanted to go on a walk. I was like, Now, are you kidding me? It's very cold outside. Which. Sigh. I definitely should have went on that walk. Know, it's Christmas. It's cold. I'm just going to not do that. So I went into her bedroom, my in-laws bedroom, and everybody was just out in the living room doing their thing and. I labored in there, I remember very clearly going to the bathroom and thinking to myself, I should get in the shower. No, no, I'm not going to do that. I'm just going to go get back in the bed. And I remember like tensing up with every contraction, doing everything you're told like not to do. And then I got to a point where it's like, okay, never mind. Like I want to go to the hospital. we got there at about 1:00 that afternoon. And I remember being told that my O.B. had just worked 24 hour shift and she was coming off and she was like leaving as I was coming in the door, she was leaving. So I didn't know who I was going to have. Anything like that is just like okay, well, I did decline the induction, and she did ask so. So it's December 25th. 1 p.m. is when I rolled into the hospital and. To be honest, everything is such a blur. I completely disassociated So as far as like a time frame, I can't really give that. But I do know once I got there, it was not long before I asked for the epidural. I was like yeah just go ahead, I'll take it. I know. I was four centimeters dilated. When I got there. so my husband was there, my mom, my mother in law. My sister and my friend Lizzie. So it was like this big old party I know after I got the epidural, at some point I went to sleep. And again, everything's just such a blur because I disassociated so bad or it was the medication. I don't know. But at some point they broke my water. And then I remember them telling me they need to start pitocin. And I remember declining that for several hours. At some point they discovered that. there was meconium, but at that time there wasn't. Much conversation around it, like I remember it being mentioned, but it wasn't mentioned as there was like any kind of emergency. At the time, it was more so just mentioned that we need to start pitocin to speed things up.

So when I got there at 1:

00 that day. After I got the epidural, I didn't move, obviously, like I stayed in the bed, but. At some point that night, they were like, We have to start pitocin. And I remember agreeing to it at some point and. Everything going downhill after the photos and we started. So the epidural prior to the pitocin had appeared to have been working. I wasn't feeling all these cramps or anything like that once the pitocin had started. I had the worst back labor. My contractions were on top of one another, and with every contraction I was throwing up, I was itchy. I remember at one point asking the pitocin to be turned down and I don't. Believe that happened. Around 5 a.m. the next morning. And so December 26, a whole 24 hours later. I remember them telling me it was time to push. And. I pushed for three and a half hours. On my back in the hospital with everybody around me screaming that screaming. And it seems like screaming when you're doing that coach pushing. So like, for those I don't know what coach pushing is, is when your birth team with each contraction, you're holding your breath. Your birth team is counting 1 to 10 as you push. You take a pause and then you go at it again for another 10 seconds. I can still hear the counting from 1 to 10 from. And I'm like, I don't know much, but I know I never want to hear that sound again. So I pushed for three and a half hours. And then once she came out. She was swept away to the NICU Team. So it's actually. In the moment. It wasn't funny, but like looking back, this has kind of been like the only comedy part of my birth. So when she came out, they later on my chest, she was covered in meconium. So the poop, the brown poop, that's super slimy. GROSS And all the things the part of birth. But at the time, I didn't know what to expect. So I remember them laying her on me and me screaming, Oh, my goodness, she is so slimy. And so they, like, needed me to hold her. And I just. Wasn't having any parts of it which. Knowing what I know now, like looking back. I was in that transition period. So like when the babies are born, the babies need a transition, but sometimes so does Mom. I think that's where I was as I was trying to, like, grasp everything that had just happened. I'd put in so much work over the last 27 hours. And now you guys want me to immediately take care of this baby? I've got nothing. So they took her away. She came out very limp, very blue and unresponsive. So the NICU team comes in and they have her on the warmer. And I have no idea what's going. Nobody had communicated to me what had happened. What was going on and if they did I didn't hear it So I remember them. Bringing her finally getting her wrapped up where they had worked on her for a little bit, brought her back to me. And I have one picture. From my birth with her and I'm just holding are looking at her. She's already swaddled up with no immediate skin to skin or anything. And somewhere along the lines that morning, another doctor came in. Kind of in a panic and. Said we have to take her to the NICU. You. Her cord blood gases came back low. All I remember hearing the doctors say is we have to take her now. It's time sensitive. She's at risk for cerebral palsy and seisures for the rest of her life. So not knowing anything. I remember telling the doctor, like, take her. Like, why are you even talking to me if it's time sensitive? Like, get her out of here. And I remember telling my husband, like, you just go with them. Leave me here. Like, I'll. Get this sorted out like I'm fine. Somebody needs to go be with her. my husband goes to be with her. I'm still in the bed, so I still. I have no movement in my leg. So while the epidural did not work in the way, I guess I would have hoped for it to work. I was numb from the waist down, but like I said, I was still feeling all of that back. Labor. I remember my nurse. And telling me I need to get up and I needed to go to the. I can't. Like I have to get. No, but I'm telling you, I can't. She wheels me into the bathroom and she sits me down. She goes, I'll be right back. I need. And I'll come back. I couldn't. And I remember sitting there. I'm probably going to get emotional. But I remember sitting there feeling like because it was just me in the bathroom and I was like, so alone. And I remember this, all this pressure. So if you've ever had a UTI, it felt like the worst UTI of my entire life. So I was like, my bladder feels full, but I can't pee. Like, I'm telling you, I cannot. And I remember screaming for my mother in law. And she comes in and I tell her I'm like, Hey, I need all of this toilet and I need somebody to put a catheter in me. I feel like my bladder is going to explode. So. She gets me back into the bed. She's off the clock. So while. Yes, she did. She as a nurse. She was there for me. She was not there, like on duty. And she goes, and I tell her, I think you need to go get my nurse. And I remember her coming back saying, Oh, well, she said, she's busy, she'll be there. I was like, I can't wait. When I tell you that I feel like my bladder is about to explode like this feels like I'm dying, I cannot wait. And. My mother in law actually ended up putting a catheter in me to help drain my bladder. But the whole point to that part of the story is it's just like. I know this doesn't happen every day, but like for me and my story, the care that I had received was just so lonely. Like, nobody talked to me really about what was going on with my daughter. And then I'm like, well into this bathroom. And I literally thought I was going to die in there. And, you know, to some that might seem dramatic by the pressure that I was feeling, and then I can't do anything about it because I can't move my legs to get up. I still physically need help. So anyway, she drains my bladder. I start to immediately feel better because for obvious reason. somewhere along the lines my husband does come back and we start to, like, prepare. So the way our hospital is set up is you have your baby in one room and then you go to another for the mother and then for I don't think all hospitals are set up that way. But mine was. So we got our thing set up and I remember them bringing the bassinet and. Which, lo back, they brought the bassinet in for us to put all of our things in But I remember them bringing that bassinet in, and I was just like, so upset, like, why are you guys bringing me this empty bassinet? I don't have my baby to put in this bassinet. To go to this floor and recover without my baby. So you get. Mother, infant, at I hadn't really decided if I wanted to breastfeed or formula feed. It was really never a thought that I had during pregnancy because again, I was just like, I'm just going to take everything as it comes. I don't recommend doing that. But that at the time was the only thing I had control of. So like, okay, I can control this. I can control how she's fed. So I was pumping around the clock. So while actively trying to recover, I'm pumping every 2 hours around the clock to try to feed my baby. Once she was in the nick, you know, they hooked her up to a EEG to monitor seizure activity. And she was on what's called The Cooling Blanket Protocol. So what that is, is basically so it's it's just like the bassinet you see in the hospital, but the baby's on it and they have exactly what it sounds like. It's a cooling blanket attached to this machine. And what it does is it puts your body in a hypothermic state to protect your brain. So it basically. puts your brain and your body in this and hypothermic state. So if there was any swelling on her brain from birth. It wouldn't. Get worse before they could actively correct it. The way it works is when she's in the NICU, they have her on this blanket and they cool her for. 24 to 48 hours. while monitoring her brain activity. And then. for the following 72 hours after the first 48. They slowly warm her back up. So the first five days of her life. She was in the NICU. Sedated for the most part. So she was like on morphine and Keppra, which Keppra is for seizures and the EEG around her head. And then this cooling blanket that. That previously stated keeps her in this cold state to protect her body and protect her

Kiona:

Wow, that sounds like a lot to unpack because there's so many moving parts there. the immediate postpartum where you see her and they tell you, hold her, she's here. Yay! Congratulations. And you need to ground. Right. Like you need to re ground yourself. And then you're looking at her and then you're like, This is not what I expected to see. Like, there's a slimy meconium fields baby. That's, like, non-responsive. This is probably very scary to see because it's not something you anticipated seeing. And the movies and TV does not help with the reality of what babies look like immediately after birth either.

Allison:

right

Kiona:

so there's that that you have to process and then in addition to that, the doctor rushes in to say that the cord gases are low. I understand that kind of panicky sensation or feeling to say, okay, take her, you know, do what you need to do. And then it seems as if you were kind of just left to be and. That is heavy. That is very heavy because you are processing the fact that you just gave birth and the fact that your baby was like swept out of your arms to go do this emergency thing and then your solid rock that was there to support you is now with your child. And so you are there feeling alone, which makes sense to feel alone. It does sound like you had some other people in the room, but it's a different kind of feeling to be supported by your intimate partner versus your mother in law. So as much as you probably love her and appreciate her being present. Yeah, it's definitely, definitely different. So the moment that you felt when you were sitting on the toilet trying to pee is absolutely scary because you have no control of your body, right?

Allison:

That was the scariest part. Because you have no control. Like you guys want me to do. what I can't even walk

Kiona:

Yeah. And that also shows that, like, the way that medicine goes into everybody's bodies is always different. Right? There's always like, oh, most people get up around this amount of time postpartum and they're able to walk and, like, do all these things. And you're like, I still can't walk and I still can't pee

Allison:

And as a doula, I have like sense being a doula. I have experienced a so many beautiful hospital, medicated

Kiona:

Hmm.

Allison:

births, and I'm like wow. So prior to becoming a doula, I'm going to therapy and processing my birth and my healing journey and all of that. Like you couldn't tell me anything. Epidurals or the devil Pitocin is going to kill you. And if you have your baby at a hospital, you're absolutely insane. Obviously I had to work through all that and and I did. And then also witnessing birth from a different point of view. It's like it actually doesn't have to be like that at all. And epidurals can be great tools for labour.

Kiona:

Mm hmm.

Allison:

I think, at the time when I was trying to process my birth and my birth trauma with her, I was scared. But like, looking back, I'm not so sure that I was scared necessarily of losing her per se. Because despite everything that had happened, I was still so trustworthy of the medical system. And I was and I truly did trust her team. The NICU team that she had was just phenomenal. The nurses were great and I think the biggest piece of that, now that I'm out of it and can look back is just what you were just mentioning, was just how lonely it was and how I felt in that moment. And for years after that, every day, I remember always thinking to myself, I don't know what I can do to make a difference, but I have got to figure it out because I can't imagine families feeling this way every day, giving birth. I didn't even really know exactly what a doula was at that time. And then. Once I was educated and realized what that while I was like, Oh, that's exactly what I'm going to do. And that's the thing, too, is just like when processing, at least for me and my story, when processing birth and birth trauma to the people that are surrounding you, it may not have been traumatic, but it's all about how you felt in that situation. And that's what I've learned is, you know, sometimes we as humans correlate trauma with an actual event, which yes, that can be it. But an event can be traumatic. But the way that you're supported within that event can almost take that personal, like deep, traumatic feeling away from you. had I've been supported through all of that in the way that I feel I should have been. It makes me wonder if maybe it would have been different. I don't know. But all that to say as far as my immediate support system, like outside of the hospital and my friends, that I have and the family that I had supporting me, I mean, I can't say enough good things about them, but I guess I had this expectation for my birth team And it didn't go the way I expected it to go because I was like, Oh, like they've got this. Like, they do this every day. They'll take care of me. And the reality. It just doesn't happen that way because while they are also humans, they are just doing what they've been taught to do. And that's just the unfortunate way that it is.

Kiona:

Yeah, that's so true. And, you know, that leads me to question how was your mental state immediately postpartum like after you had gotten home and you and your baby were home, Everything was back in your space.

Allison:

As I previously previously stated, as we were at the hospital for six days. I actually ended up getting discharged, but since we lived so far from the hospital, I was able to stay. I think it was called a Helping Hands. It's kind of like the Ronald McDonald organisation, but not Ronald McDonald. So I was able to stay in a hotel near the hospital until she was released. And then we left. So we we did a six day NICU stay. We came home and then. Immediate postpartum. I I remember being scared. But again, it was everything was just so new. I wasn't too sure like what I was scared of. So like when she was sent home, she was released from the NICU so she was originally diagnosed with high HIE. Which is hypoxic. encephalitis, which is swelling of the brain. prior to going home, I'm under the impression that my baby has swelling of a brain. She's probably going to need all these extra help, all the things, but prior to her release, they did an MRI and cleared her. Everything looked good. Her brain looked good. She had to see active seizures while on the monitors. But otherwise, as everything looked good, they sent her home and they sent her home on Keppra. The seizure medicine for 6 to 12 months, but under neurology care. So we would see the neurologist I think like monthly for the first two months and then bi monthly. So I go home brand new baby on seizure medicine that I have to give three times around the clock at the same time. She had a nursery, but we actually ended up sleeping in the living room. And I remember just constantly, just watching every movement, just watching her breathe, watching every movement. Just your typical though, like new mom. Things didn't think anything of it, but as time went on, I actually never told anybody this. I don't even think that I've told my husband this. But as time went on, I started to realize that, like my intrusive thoughts and my anxiety was starting to not feel like normal postpartum anymore. My daughter's a red had very fair skin, and her eyelids when she was younger were blue because she was just like the veins in her eyes because. So fair skinned. And she would be asleep. And there were several nights where I would like, jerk her up, like thinking like, my baby's not alive. My baby had a seizure. Like, oh my goodness. Or I had to constantly, like, set this alarm to make sure I'd give her her seizure medicine. And if I didn't wake up to that alarm at 2 a.m., like, in my mind, it's like, is she going to see in her sleep? I don't know. The time was like I don't know the answer to that. So I was definitely scared. But I was surrounded by I mean, my husband, my family, my friends. I definitely had a huge support system. I experienced a side of the birth trauma. We also had a lot of personal trauma or like personal things in general, just like going on. I lost my job six months pregnant. And then my grandfather, who I was very, very close with, his health, had started to decline. So she came home January 1st. well, December 31st. That night we got we came home and then he visited her for January 3rd. And again, we had our family was visiting. Everybody is visiting, but it's kind of just like. I don't really know how to explain it. Like you have all these people visiting by and all these people around you. But in hindsight, like, you still just feel so alone. And the people that were around me, they did their best and they were trying. And I'm not mad at anybody. Like I said, I didn't even know that the things I was feeling. Wasn't necessarily. Right, I guess. So how were they supposed to know? Fast forward to February. My grandfather had passed away. So that was just kind of like the added to everything else that had just gone on. Like he did get a chance to meet my daughter. But then that was just slowly taken away. So he passed in February and. In my mind, I feel like I never really grieved it. I remember my husband telling me you handled and this is just my husband being, you know, not knowing what to say. So just saying whatever he means. Well. But I remember him saying you handled your Papa's death a lot better than I anticipated like he was very concerned on how that all that was going to transpire. And I was like, What do you mean? Like, what am I supposed to do? Like, I got this whole baby I have to take care of. Like, I can't just succumb to grief. I can't do. And then her first year just kind of came and went like every baby's first year. And I just again, I was just crying all the time. I remember just not. Enjoying life and. Again. At the time, I didn't realize that just because. I was so deep in it. And then her second year came and went throughout my all, in my postpartum, every couple of months, I would pull out her medical records and I would see them. And I'm just looking for answers. I was like, What happened? What did I do wrong? And what can I do differently? I kept telling myself, like, I don't know what it is. Like, something happened in that room and somebody is not telling me something. I don't know. And right before her third birthday I want to say, sometime in November, it was I had another friend that worked at the hospital and she had actually gone up to Andy to transport a baby and there was like a chatter at the nurse's station on whether or not like this baby was fentanyl positive. And the chatter that was at the nurse's station was. A conversation surrounding can can the medication that goes into the epidural pass through the placenta and get to the baby? And we know per the studies the anser is no. It doesn't. It's safe. That's the ideally the safest route to go for pain management. But one of the nurses at the nurses station had just made a comment about, Oh, no. Like, I've seen it happen before. The anesthesiologist had like, come in. So she made the comment. One of my co-workers daughter in law's baby was in the NICU because she had gotten too much medication through her epidural line like to quickly. And my friend was like, Wait, I know that story. Like, what are you talking about? she was like, are you talking about Allison? And the girl was like Wait. The nurse was like oh, you know her? And she's like the anesthesiologist that said to me that day, make sure you watch mom and that baby, she was in a lot of pain. So I dosed her heavily. So that's when I like started to, like, really crumble because I was like right before their birthday. And I'm like, Wait a sec. What do you mean? You did that. Now I don't have anything. Nothing in my medical records. I don't have anything to like back that up. It just. Just nurse's station. Chatter. Chatter. But I remember in that moment when my friend called me and she goes, I don't want to bring this back up, but I feel like you need to know this. This is what allegedly was said during the birth of your baby. Like, supposedly they had given you too much medication because they knew your baby needed to get out. And I'm like Okay, well, this is really heavy. So I remember. Like losing my mind. I was at dance with my daughter when I got this information, and I remember calling my husband and I'm like, freaking out. And I was like, it was the hospitals fault like, they tried to kill our baby, which. Who knows? Like, I'm sure none of that was intentional, but. That's the moment where I was like, okay, I need therapy and I need to process this because I am blaming myself. I have people saying, this is what actually happened. To this day, I truly. Don't know what happened, but I'm at peace with. My experience, I've taken accountability for my part in it. And I've done the steps to get to a point where I can. Not look back at it and. Just sulk in it. And I do feel like without that, it's. Where I am today. I wouldn't have. Become a doula. I wouldn't have been able to see the good in birth. I wouldn't have started therapy. That not only helped me. With my birth trauma, but I felt like it helped me as a parent and. As a person, as a whole because of all the other tools you learn in therapy. And then, of course, there's my son. So I wouldn't have had him either, I don't think. But I did tell myself. That I was never having more kids. like even after therapy, I was like, I am not having more kids. Not doing that to myself. Like, not happening. And I had convinced myself this was another part of, I think, of like my trauma response was I told myself, okay, she came out. We didn't know if she was going to live and she did live, so we can't have another baby because we got lucky. I know. That's all. Just silly talk, but. At the time. I was like, I'm at peace with how our birth went and I'm going to move on from it, but we're never having more kids. So then when I found I was pregnant with my son, that's when I was like, Oh, great, All the emotions are coming back.

Kiona:

Yeah. So let's take just a pause moment here for a second. And before we dive into your son's conception and his birth, I would love to get a little bit more detail on how post-partum rage showed up for you.

Allison:

So at the time I didn't realize that's what it was. a lot of people talk about postpartum depression and postpartum anxiety. It's kind of talked about, but it's really just kind of chalked up. Right, for the postpartum rage. I just was so irritable and on edge all the time. My poor husband, like I was constantly angry with him. I had to have somebody to lash out at, I guess. And keep in mind, we're not even married at the time, so we're just engaged. So after we made it out of the postpartum season, I was like, You know what? You are the man I need to marry. But I was just always yelling. I was always just not happy with. I guess it's a kind of like a hard pill to swallow. But if I'm being completely transparent and that part of my journey and that part of postpartum and that part of motherhood. I was doing it because it needed to be done, but I wasn't enjoying it. I was like, People keep having kids and they love this. I don't love this. I'm taking care of her and I love her. I do love her. But I don't love this and. The Internet paints that that I'm supposed to love this and I'm supposed to enjoy every bit of it, but responding to her every need frustrated me. Now, not in a way where I was like yelling at my baby or like harming my baby. But I was just angry. Like, she went and I was still breastfeeding at the time, so I've been transparent about that. With my community and like on social media, with my business and stuff, just because I do think there does need to be transparency around a lot of things, but especially breastfeeding, because I do feel like a lot of the times women, they want to breastfeed and they're like, Oh, the bond, the bond, the bond, which there is a beautiful bond with breastfeeding, but the reality is it's not like that for everybody. And I was like that. Like I was breastfeeding because that was the only thing I had control over. And I was like, This is the only way I can feed her. And this is the only thing that. Nobody can make or break this for me. Like I have control of this. So I guess that's kind of how it showed up. Like I wasn't really bonding with my baby. I'm constantly yelling and screaming and on edge with my husband. I don't know. Like, I was just. She just couldn't handle her cries like I like. You've got to take over. Like I would feed her, and then I'd her to him and I'm like you have to take over. Because I can't. I can't do this. like I said, I was crying a lot. And if I wasn't crying, I was just angry at life. I mean, it could have been anything. This guy could have just not been blue enough one day. And I'm like, ugh, why does the sky look like that?

Kiona:

Mm hmm. Yeah. And the reason I brought this up and wanted to talk a little bit more about it is because it's not talked about enough and people feel guilty for feeling this way,

Allison:

It is a little hard to be vulnerable and be honest with you about that. But I did feel guilty for a long time. But like you said, people don't talk about it enough. And it wasn't that I didn't love my baby. I think it was just at that time I did not know how to process all the emotions that I was having. Unfortunately, anger just presented the most for me, so I just wasn't kind. I mean, I wasn't kind to myself. I wasn't kind to others. I got roped into a mom group, which if anybody knows what Internet mom groups are a hard no, but You don't figure that out until you figure it out. I actually say often to friends that I had then that I still have now. Thank you guys for still loving me, because I wasn't very lovable then. so.

Kiona:

Hmm. It is very scary. And I think it's important to just actually talk about it because like I said before, it's it's not really talked about enough. People feel guilty for feeling that way. And it's important for listeners to hear that this is going on with people because it happened with me, too. You know, I had postpartum rage and it was with my first and I was like, Why is this so hard?

Allison:

That it's hard. And nobody told you it would be hard?

Kiona:

Right. And then you get angry at yourself for being angry because you're angry that it's hard,

Allison:

Yeah. Constant cycle of like, I'm angry because I'm angry and I can't get happy because I'm angry that I'm not happy.

Kiona:

Right, Exactly. It's just it just keeps going. And I just want to say out loud for listeners to hear that when you do feel like you're not being kind to yourself mentally if you do feel like you're not being kind to those that are around you, even though it's something that you really want, don't hesitate to reach out for help. Don't hesitate to talk about it with someone. Because if you can talk about it with someone that is supportive and that knows you, they can help you find the resources to just get a little bit of a break or to help find a solution. And I just think it's important to have that support network. And if you don't have that support network, go back to your provider and talk to your provider about it and don't feel guilty about it because, well, actually, I can't tell you not to feel guilty because it's your emotions, right? I would say try your best to have an open mind about what next step to take so that you can get help because you matter and the way you feel matters. And it's important to ground yourself again.

Allison:

I will say I do kind of want to add to that, if that's okay.

Kiona:

Absolutely.

Allison:

I did end up reaching out to my O.B. a couple of times postpartum to express what I was going through, but it was after that six week mark. So both times I was brushed off and was just told to see a primary care physician. And then one time there was a mental health medication prescribed to me over the portal. I feel comfortable taking this. I haven't even talked to her, So. My input to, add to what you just said, is if your provider doesn't take you seriously, find someone that will. And if you can't. theres. I tell people all the time. you can also. Google post-partum hotlines for you state. I didnt know that at the time for. Mental health crisis and stuff like that. Just Just because one provider won't listen, you will be able to find one that well, it's just a matter of finding one that will.

Kiona:

And that can get hard if you feel like you're constantly being turned away. But keep pushin and fight for yourself. You know, even if you're not fighting for your baby, fight for yourself. Because fighting for yourself is the important part. And then it'll trickle down to everyone else.

Allison:

They're getting me emotional again. I just said the other day. Now that I'm experiencing postpartum from a different light is looking. Back. To how hard it was. How I really felt. Rock bottom, and I've actually had one. Rock bottom situation since having my son. But that's neither here. But looking back at that and knowing. How crappy it felt to feel that low and to feel that lonely. I'm thinking. There was no way out to being out of it. It's such a heavy feeling now, like in a positive way. But it's such a heavy feeling because it's like. if I could just get through to every postpartum family, I would just want it like you just said, to do it for yourself. If it's not for your baby or for your husband, for your spouse, do it for yourself. Because once you get out of it, you just you're able to take that big deep breath and realize it was temporary and I think what I'm getting at with that is it just hurts my heart that there's so many people that do get turned away and they don't have it in them to keep looking because it is defeating. I remember how defeating it was trying to find a therapist, but I'm so happy that I didn't give up. And I just want to like, tell everybody that like, just don't give up because in the moment it sucks. I've been there. I know it sucks. So bad. But once you're out of it and you're able to look back and see see everything you've overcome, it's so rewarding.

Kiona:

Absolutely. It really is. And so let's actually take that as a positive step toward speaking about the conception of your son. Then we'll lead into the birth of your son and how different it was.

Allison:

So with my son, my husband and I had been taking precautions since all postpartum and I was tracking my ovulation, like doing all the things. And then just one time I didn't. That was it just takes one time. They tell you in school to it only takes one time. They're not lying like it really does. I did not even consider you being pregnant, but I had been having episodes of low blood pressure, dizzy spells, nausea, my blood pressure dropping Didn't think anything of it. And then knowing better, I'm like, Let me just Google it. And Google's like, You're either dying or you're pregnant. And I'm like, okay, well, I can rule out if I'm pregnant. I can't really rule out right away if I'm dying. So. Let's just take a test. And I had like, the kits that you can get off Amazon of, like, the ovulation test and the pregnancy test. So I just had a couple of the ones, you know, copies dip it in there like 99 cent for a pack of like 100. And I take this test and I sit it down. I'm like, okay, whatever. And I come back to it and I look at it again. And I'm like no, no, no, no, no, like I have like line eyes, right? I'm like, I swear, I see two lines, but there's no way there's two lines on this test. And I'm panicking, like you would have thought that I was like 15 and pregnant, like with nothing like to do. Like, I was like, I don't know what to do. I'm This can't be real. So I'm actually on the phone with one of my friends when I take the test and she's like, Oh, I don't know. I think I see a line. And I was like, No, no. She goes, You should go get a digital. I said, I can't. I can't. I don't know if I want to know. So she talked me into it. I go and get this digital. I've done taken like six more tests since then and. Take this digital test. And the thing about digital tests is they say it takes 3 minutes and it takes every single bit of that 3 minutes. And in the moment it feels like a lifetime and it comes back and it says, yes. I was like, Oh my goodness. And I'm sobbing. Like looking back at my response to pregnancy. It was so ridiculous. A I am the CEO of validating feelings. I can't even validate it. Like I was So emotional and so ridiculous. Like i, its was it was just crazy. So this is on a Sunday. And my in-laws are actually coming over for dinner that night. I'm not. I don't want them to know. I don't want my husband to know. I don't want the teenagers to know. I don't want nobody in my step kids are teenagers. I don't think I said that in the beginning, but they're older. so with me when I go on a fighter flight. I'm a flight. I'm out of here. I'm gone. So I'm like, okay, I'm going to go run some errands, tell my husband, go into. And I call my sister and I'm like, Hey, I need you to ride with me. This is the same by my sister Harley that was at my birth with my daughter. I was like, I just need you to roar with me. I'm sobbing to her. She goes, What's wrong? And I'll said, I'll just tell you in the car. Why were they so dramatic about it? Still to this day, I couldn't tell you. But we get in the car, we're driving, and I handed the test and I was like, You've got to be kidding me. Like I am pregnant and I'm just sobbing over it. And then she's just, like, just as shocked as I am. Because therapy or no therapy, I was very firm in my decision that I was not having more children. So I get back home after I try to debrief with her for a little bit. I get back home and I decide that I'm going to like manically clean my car out for like the next 3 hours. Anything to avoid my in-laws and my husband. And then later that night we're laying in bed and I'm thinking to myself, like, I have got to tell him, like, what is wrong with you, Alison? Why are you acting like you're not a grown woman and married? Like, I felt more unprepared as a 30 year old married woman than I did at 25 and just dating him. And I tell him with tears in my eyes. I tell him that I'm pregnant and he's over the moon. I'm like, You got to be kidding me. Like, what? Why are you so excited? And he's like, Why are you not okay? So I decided at this point that I was going to have I don't want to call it a secret pregnancy. I just wasn't going to tell anybody. But within the last year, I guess secret pregnancies have become a trend. But for me I was like, I'm just not telling anybody because with my daughter, you know, I was my first baby and posting all over Facebook, all of my friends, knowing my family and as a whole world knows I'm pregnant. I get this point. And then I had her and I did not have the capacity to talk to anybody because of everything that went on. I was like, I'm not telling anybody I'm pregnant except my closest friends and family. I have things that I need to work through to be able to enjoy this pregnancy before I just can't. So I did it. My handful and my close friends knew. Of course my sister knew. But nobody else knew. We didn't had told the kids or anything. I immediately knew I was having a home. I knew that I was not thrilled about being pregnant. Which to preface that it's okay to not be thrilled about being pregnant immediately. Your initial response does not have to be jumping over the moon because I was the furthest from jumping over the moon. But I admit I already knew. I was like, okay, I have so many emotions that I need to work through, but I know that I'm having a homebirth, so I need to find a midwife and I need to find one now because we are so in Richmond, we are our birthing center and homebirth midwife options are very, very scarce. So if you want the opportunity, you literally have to like pee on a stick and find a midwife immediately. So that's kind of what I did. Well, that is what I did. And I called around to a few and then I interviewed a couple of them. And then I went with River City Midwifery and Richmond, Virginia. They were phenomenal, but I went with them and I was able to like, express all of my emotions and my birth trauma and all that. And it was just very validating by the as far as the emotions go. Basically what had happened was, in January of last year, I had been going to therapy for a little over a year, and in January I had, I guess, quote unquote, graduated therapy. Like she was like, I feel like you're in a good place. Do you feel like you're in a good place? And I'm like, Yeah, I feel like I'm in a great place. I am thriving, like I am ready to live my life. And she's like, okay, well, you know my number if anything comes up. Call me like I'm still here, but. Go on, do your thing. That was in January. And February is when I found out I was pregnant. So to me, in that moment, it felt like everything I had worked on and worked towards just came crumbling into my lap because and that moment there in the first trimester, I I couldn't see the good. And that point in that moment, it's like everything's going to go wrong. Everything that I just spent the last four years working on to recover mentally, physically and emotionally is about to crumble all around me once again. That was my thought process. I was like, Nobody can know because I don't want to hear any questions of How are you feeling? When is your baby due? Is it a boy or a girl? Like while people mean well, at that time I felt like I didn't have the capacity to answer those kind of questions. So I kind of just scooted through. My first trimester with the handful of friends that I have and. I have the most amazing friends. I just want to put that out there. It is just they were just all so. Comforting to my emotions that even now, now we can just kind of look back and laugh like, okay, you were a little dramatic, but

Kiona:

I think that it's really a good point that you brought up there. Is How that initial shock of finding out that you were pregnant gave you that trigger of feeling like everything was going to crumble down around you? And the reason why I say that is because when you're pregnant, whether it's your first time or the 10th time, there is still so many unknowns. And so you have no idea how it's going to turn out. Right. And so for you to have had your first experience with your daughter, that is your reference and that is not where you want to be this time around. Right. So I understand that concern and I understand that panic. And for me, I'm going to say the way you reacted, I'm going to validate you. That was not. Reacting. You were scared

Allison:

Horrified.

Kiona:

And let that be real. Because who knows? Guess. Looking back, you realize that, you know, it wasn't as bad of a thing as you thought it was going to be, but you had to get there and through it to realize that. So in that moment, that was some real scary stuff.

Allison:

Terrified.

Kiona:

Yeah.

Allison:

Well, thank you for that for the validation, because I that is one of the that is one of the emotions. I'm like, why were you like that Allison, just relax.

Kiona:

And that's okay. Yeah. I see it validation coming for me 100%. So let's go ahead and dive into the birth of him. What decisions did you make differently throughout your pregnancy to lead you to having a redemptive home birth?

Allison:

So at this point in my life, I had already started doula the work. I had the birth doula education under my belt. I got my certification and I had attended a handful of births at this point from Medicaid to unmedicated to C-section, all hospital births. But I did have friends around me that have had home births. So I felt pretty I felt pretty confident in it. But of course, you never know. Birth is still so unpredictable. So I basically spent my first trimester. I was very sick. Lots of nausea, lots of throwing up. My blood pressure kept dropping. So my whole first trimester, I really just spent wrapping my head around the fact that I was having another baby and trying to survive off of grapes and ginger ale. And then by my second trimester is when I was really starting to like, hone in on my pregnancy. And I was like, okay, I, I have two options. I can sit around and I can complain and mope about it and I can not put in my best effort to have a redemptive homebirth or I can do what I know I need to do, put in the effort prenatally. Hope for the best and just see where it takes me. And that's kind of what I did. So by the time my second trimester rolled around, I'm still actively seeing the homebirth midwives and again, like they're just so validating. And every appointment is it's like hanging out with one of your girlfriends. It's just you just, it's so different from OB care and hospital care. But they would validate me, talk to me about, you know, things that I can do and to like, feel better, whether that be like walking every day or like nutrition or whatever. I was already walking to stay mobile and to keep my head clean. Throughout the first trimester and second trimester. But I did decide that it was time to start making a birth plan and what I wanted my birth to look like. And even though I had the doula education, I still needed to turn inward. Really trust myself. My body, my intuition. So that's kind of what it did. I mean, I, I wouldn't say it anything too much just because I did. had taken a childbirth education since becoming a doula, and I'd seen births and I just had to have an understanding of what I wanted my birth to look like, which for me, obviously, I wanted to be at home. I so I asked my daughter. she was four at the time. She turned five in December and my son was born in October, just for reference. But I had asked her if she wanted to be here and she told me multiple times, No, that's gross. I was really hoping you wanted to be like my little mini doula. She didn't. Absolutely not. So my second trimester is when I also started to tell people I didn't put it on social media or anything. I also did not find out the gender just to put that out there. But I started to finally tell my in-laws and we told the kids and told more of my friends. And it just all started to come full circle and it already started to feel healing. I kind of isolated myself. I did isolate myself the first trimester, and while I don't necessarily regret it, I do think that I needed that moment, with myself. I needed that time with myself to just adjust to all the emotions and feelings that came with it. But then by the time I started to actually tell my friends and family, I guess that it just all came full circle. I felt good mentally, physically, and I felt like I knew what to expect. I mean, I had seen birth at that point. I had done therapy. I'd done the educational part, and I felt like I just knew what to expect. And I had confidence. I mean, I did have some fears. I remember going into one of my appointments, like crying. And I remember the midwife saying she had a student midwife there that day. She was great, but I felt so bad because she was like, Hey, I have seen a midwife here today. And I was like, honestly, I, I there's nothing wrong with her. I think she's great, but I just need time with you today. And to this day, I feel so bad about that because I was like, I hope she doesn't take it personally. I just need to cry.

Kiona:

I'm pretty sure she understands if she's going as a student midwife.

Allison:

So I did. I went in that day and I was like, I'm I felt good my whole pregnancy thus far. Well, the second half of that part of my pregnancy into my third, and I was like, I just the closer we're getting to birth, I'm just scared. And she goes, Well, what are you scared of? And I was like, What if I lose control? And she was like, Help me understand what you mean by that. I was like, I don't know what I mean by that. I just know that the birth of my daughter had zero control, so I just don't want to do that again. And this is actually kind of funny. And I also told her, I said, Nobody's allowed to tell me to push. I don't want to hear that word. I can still hear it from my daughter. I know I have to do that. So unless it's medically necessary, don't tell me to do that.

Kiona:

Hmm. That's some good advice. I mean, that's important because that is something that stuck out to you the first time around, and that's a boundary you set from the get go, which is good.

Allison:

Yes. Like, don't tell me to do that. Ever, Ever.

Kiona:

Yeah. Yeah. So. Okay, So you went into that appointment and then at what point did you experience your first sign of labor?

Allison:

I had fully planned mentally to go over. I went into labor with my daughter at 40 weeks, had her at 40 and one. But in my mind I was like, I'm going to mentally prepare to go over because I don't want to hurt my own feelings. 39 weeks and three days. It was a Friday. I told my husband, I said, I'm going to order a Chick-Fil-A tray and I'm going to go get Chick-Fil-A to put it in the freezer in case I go into labor. And he was like, Are you having any symptoms? And I was like, No, I'm not. Mind you, like looking back. I spent the vast majority of my pregnancy trying to be in tune with my body and listening to my intuition. So something just kept telling me that day, you need to get your crap together. You're 39 weeks. So

anyway, 8:

00 at night, I go out, get this chick fillet like this. This was going to be my after meal for my birth team and myself. And then I stopped by my sister's house for something on the way home. I don't even remember what it was. And I remember my brother in law saying, dang girl. You look like you're about to pop my sister doing what sisters do. You don't say that. Da da da da da. Whatever. Little did I know he was right. So that. I come home, my husband goes, I'm going to put the Chick-Fil-A in the freezer. And I said, No, it can be out for 24 hours in the refrigerator. If I don't have a baby within 24 hours, we'll put it in the freezer that morning. Well, that night I was having Braxton headaches. So like tightness, some just feeling my body was doing something, but I wasn't convinced it was labor. And then around 430 that next morning, I woke up to a contraction. Oh, well, at the time I was like, This is not a contraction. That was just a cramp. Whatever. So I was like, I'm gonna try to go back to sleep. I couldn't go back to sleep. So I took a shower, a very similar to how things started with my daughter. So with my daughter, I woke up to one shower a try to ignore it. So that's what I did. I tried to go back to sleep around 6 a.m. that morning and I couldn't. They were coming, but they were like 20 minutes apart. 12 six. They were just super sporadic, no rhythm to them. And like I mentioned previously, he my husband is a softball coach and he had softball that day. And I went downstairs and I said, Hey, I don't think I want you to go to softball today. And he was like, Is everything okay? I was like, I don't think I'm in labor, but my body's doing something. Well, at this point, I had'nt lost my mucus plug. Which I know that that doesn't mean anything, but I'm like, my body has done nothing. Like, I haven't lost my mucus plug. I haven't had anybody show. My water hasn't broken. I mean, there's no signs of labor other than the contractions, which should have been the only sign I needed. Right. So all day long I just labored around at the house. We listened to music. All the kids were here. We had dance party dancing. We love listening to music, so we're like having dance parties downstairs. We're just having such a good day. It was rainy that morning, but the sun ended up coming out. It was my stepson's homecoming, so we're like, getting him ready for homecoming while I'm also trying to just in case I'm still not convinced I'm in labor line up people to get him to homecoming if it does turn into labor. I forgot to mention that at seven. Am I called my midwife. I was like, I don't think I need to call her. But she did tell me if anything changes. I want you to call me. Even if you don't think you're sure. I want you to call me and tell me what's going on. So that's what I did. I called her and I was like, Hey, I'm not in labor, but this is what's going on. She' like, okay, well, I'll check in with you in a little bit. And if you don't have if you're, you know, let me know what's going on by dinner. I was like, okay, I can do that. So the day goes on, you know, I want to stay around the afternoon. I tell my sister, I'm like, Hey, I think I'm overreacting, but go ahead and just start getting yourself together and head over here. My sister was in charge of getting the kids out the house. so I'm having contractions still all day long. But they were again, they weren't. In any kind of rhythm. So while I knew and I had practiced my whole pregnancy, listening to my intuition, my doula brain wouldn't turn off and it's like, well, the textbook says the textbook says it has to be a rhythm, it has to be a has. just has to be this. And it wasn't that they were just sporatic. And they started to get to a point around noon this is when I was downstairs with the kids and my husband and I started to have a contraction. We were all dancing, having a good time. And suddenly I told my husband, You need to stop talking. And I was very rude to him and I felt so bad and I was like, You need to stop talking. Why are you still talking? Please be quiet. And then I was like, I'm going upstairs. And that moment, that should have been my girl. You were in labor. Why are you still telling yourself you're not? And I go upstairs and I get the pool ready. I start to blow it up and I'm sweating it out. My husband's like, What are you doing? And I said, Just in case. Just in case. This is labor. So basically the just in case this is labor went on until I was holding my baby but. So I'm laboring around upstairs at this point. I'm listening to music and then I decide I don't know what time it was. Maybe like one 2:00. I decide I want to get in the bath. Not quite the pool, but bath. At this point. My sister's here, and the contractions are definitely picking up. I'm having to breathe through them. And I'm in the tub and I remember I started to time them at this point, and I had three contractions back to back that were 6 minutes apart. That was the only consistency throughout my labor. like, again, my water had broken. I want to show no other symptoms, but I had three contractions that were 6 minutes apart consistently. And my husband says, I think you need to call the midwife again. You just had three contractions that were 6 minutes apart. And I was like, No, you can call her. I'm not in labor. So anyway, we call her again. I'm in the bath and my sister in law shows up to take my oldest to homecoming, and that was

probably about 3:

00. And at this point, all the kids have finally got out the house and they were fine here. I'm being very vocal through my contractions at this point, but like in between my contractions, I'm still content and able to talk to everybody. But I was like, I think it's about time we get them out of here just in case. I'm still in the tub. He calls the midwife and he's like, Hey, she's in the tub. But I think you need to go ahead and head over. Like she keeps telling me You don't, but I'm telling you, you do. So the midwife tells him, okay, well, get her out of the tub and get her onto the bed,and then I'll assess the situation when I get there. And looking back, what I think she was doing was trying to see if the because, you know, they say water is a midwife's epidural, so.

Kiona:

Mm hmm.

Allison:

It either slowed my birth down or it allowed me to relax. To kick start active labor. I got out that bath. I came into my bedroom. Maybe around like 330, 340. And that contraction that hit me brought me to my knees. And what I find interesting is the second the kids were gone. That's when I was like, Oh, crap. Just kidding. I'm in labor. Just in case is like, for real. I am in labor. It's almost like my body was, like, waiting for them to go. He calls her back again and. I remember him calling her back again because I'm with every contraction, I'm like, You have to call her. You have to call her and he calls he back again and she tells him. Okay, Well, if she's feeling pushy, you know, just call me back. Very confident. Just call me back and I'll walk you through it. That's when my husband's demeanor shifted at this point. Now he's terrified.

Kiona:

Yeah, I would

Allison:

It's

Kiona:

be.

Allison:

like he's like I remember him saying, Walk me through what? And and my sister, she's like. Fingers crossed. Praying, I want to catch this baby. I hope the midwife misses it. Well, mind you, I'm still. All day long, I'm like, just in case. Just in case. I did not hire a doula because I was like, I'm not hiring a doula. I'm a photographer. I have not called my photographer at this point. And my sister, thankfully, she lives in the neighborhood. So I'm out. And I tell my husband, I say somebody to call Ashley, somebody needs to fill this pool. And my husband says, I'm not filling the pool. Bailey says she's going to assess the situation when she gets here. And I said, you are filling that pool and you are filling it right now, I'm getting in it. I'm so sorry, cause I'm trying to be a good patient, but I was like, I got to get in. Like, my body is telling me I've got to get into this water. So he fills it up, and I walk over to it and I stick my hand in it. I was like, I'll compromise. I'm gonna stick my hand in it. Then I just start crying and I tell my sister, I said, Texter, tell her I'm getting in the pool. I am so sorry. I can't help it. I get in

the pool about 4:

00. My birth photographer gets here about

4:

00 and 415 ish. My midwife arrives and 439 he was born.

Kiona:

Wow. You were in straight denial that whole time.

Allison:

I was in denial until I hit the floor. And I was like, okay, okay, fine. I'm in labor. But what's so funny is, so if you're a doula, which you you're a doula, like for people listening, if you're a doula, any kind of birth worker, and you think you don't need a doula because you're married or you do you Definitely. Because I remember my midwife walking in and I don't at this point in my labour, which is so interesting because with my daughter, like I said, I disassociate it so bad, I can't tell you much of anything of what I saw. I can just tell you what I felt. I remember my thoughts and everything with my son. It was just so different. And I remember hearing her come into the room, first off, I remember saying to her, We're liars as doulas. I can't believe we tell women they can do this. And she says with she goes, You're not wrong. But we tell them that we they can do it because we can do it.

Kiona:

Mm hmm.

Allison:

And then she says to me, and I need you to stop trying to doula yourself.

Kiona:

Yeah.

Allison:

Yes, ma'am. And I think they were shortly after my baby was born, because I think I just needed you know, they talk about labor land. My brain never went there because my brain is like, you're not in labor. Your water didn't break or your contractions are sporadic. You're still happy. And between contractions, it isn't labor.

Kiona:

Hmm.

Allison:

Then I was like, Oh my gosh, this is definitely labor. So yeah, I was super quick. So from my first noticeable

contraction. 5:

30 a.m. to him being here. 4:39 p.m.. and nobody told me to push and he came out. So I had this. I wanted to catch him so bad. Like in my mind, I was like, I'm going to catch my baby. And I was sitting in the tub on my bottom, and I remember saying, My pelvis is breaking in half. There's no way I can do this. And I remember there was a there's two midwives here. I remember the other one saying her name was Lindsay. She said, Why don't you try flipping over? You might find a little bit more comfort there. And I remember hearing her say that. So I'm like, okay, so in between that contraction, I flipped on my hands and knees and then the very next contraction, the fetal injection reflex kicked in and he literally just came out. Nobody caught him. He poor guy was in the water. The women away, so they obviously lean over to get him. His cord was wrapped all around them, but he was fine. I roll back over. They put him on my chest and it was blissful. It was me and my husband are the midwives, my sister and my birth photographer.

Kiona:

Love it. I love that so much. And the story of that one sounds so much more supported and together than your previous story. And what was it like when you found out what the sex of the baby was? Who announced it?

Allison:

think I did, But I think we might have both died because I kind of just held him up like Simba. And me and my husband were like, Oh, it's a boy. So during my pregnancy I got one ulstrasound. I got the. Anatomy scan. No, I got two. I went to, like, a fancy 3D place but we did obviously we didnt found out the gender. But the side profile during my ultrasound, I saw it and I looked at my husband and I said, This baby is not a surprise anymore. He said, What are you talking about? I said, He's a boy. So you don't know that. As I'm telling you, that baby is a boy. He do just like my grandpa that passed away. I said this is his side profile. He was like, You know how men are. He's like, I don't know. It looks like a blurry blob. Whatever you say as this baby, the boy. So I had a camera set up while I was giving birth and while I'm in labor, when he came out, I had not seen him yet, but I said out loud, I can't reach him. Somebody needs to get him. I can't reach him. So I was like subconsciously already calling him a.

Kiona:

Yeah.

Allison:

So it was definitely exciting, but it wasn't the wow factor I was looking for because I was convinced you couldn't told me nothing else while I was pregnant. I was like, This baby's a boy. He looks his ultrasound looked like a boy version, if that even means anything of my daughter. But more specifically, he looked like my grandpa to me. If my husband thinks that's crazy of me, I don't care. Because to me I was like, That looks like my grandpa.

Kiona:

That's beautiful. I love when moments like that happen because it's like, you know, following your intuition, following your gut and being like, Oh, no, yeah, that's definitely I see it already. I don't need to see the beans and the I don't need to see a little turtle or whatever, you know? That's

Allison:

I dont

Kiona:

a boy.

Allison:

need to see, nothing else

Kiona:

Mm.

Allison:

I've. And what's funny is we had finally settled on a girl name through my pregnancy, but we had not settled on a boy name. So this baby went a whole week without having a name. Baby.

Kiona:

That's awesome. even though, you know, you didn't get the wow factor that you wanted, it was still a surprise. Like an official surprise. Like, okay, he is actually a boys or maybe we should come up with the name. Yeah. And so how did your postpartum and how is it currently going? Because he's six months postpartum now. So how was your immediate postpartum and then how are you doing now?

Allison:

Immediate postpartum. It was night and day from with my daughter and the support system that I had around me. So my friends set up a meal train. So everybody that should be just standard. Oh my gosh, I, I made thank you cards for all of my friends. And they were you literally didn't have to do that. And I said, I don't know how I can truly express my gratitude for each and every one of you. So the best I got is a thank you card with my baby's cute face on it.

Kiona:

Yeah.

Allison:

So we were fed for the first two weeks the emotionally and physically. It was night and day. I was up walking around immediately. I showered first thing the next morning. It was I mean, it was great. now it is still good. We have had some hard days, especially with sleep deprivation. He prior to having him boom, people would say like, Oh, my baby's colic. It would make me squeamish because it's like, I know what colic means. But I also know that there's more than likely an underlying issue. But then I had a colic baby because I did it all. I changed my diet. We went to the chiropractor. We had oral ties released. We had cranial therapy. I mean, you name it, I did it. And he just cried and cried and cried and cried and cried. So while yes, it was hard. And the sleep deprivation almost got the best of me. What I find very interesting is the mentality that I have this time versus with my daughter, I was able to vocalize it. So I was able to say to my husband, Hey, I'm not okay, I'm okay, but like I need sleep and you're just going to have to take him and. Actually, ended up calling my midwife like two or three weeks ago because I was and I didn't realize at the time that it was from sleep, but I had had like four horrible days in a row where I just couldn't I couldn't stop crying, I couldn't get myself together. I couldn't just collect myself. I finally caught her and I was like, Hey, I need to make an appointment. I'm not too sure what's going on, but I'm able to acknowledge that whatever it is, it's not right. And then I got a full night's rest and suddenly I was just like, Oh my goodness, I should cancel this appointment. So it's night and day. Like I said, what I did go to see her and my I'm six months postpartum and she welcomed me with open arms. So that's also the difference. And immediate postpartum, they came to me and they took care of me and my. They listened. And I know it was like, really awesome, but. I expressed to her, like how I almost cancel my appointment because I feel fine now. But I guess let me tell you why I made the appointment and how I was feeling. And she validated my feelings and she walked me through a postpartum plan. Like, if this happens, this is what I want you to do and this is what I want you to do.

Kiona:

Beautiful.

Allison:

and we're going to do this for 30 days and then I'm going to check in on you. It hasn't even been 30 days and she's already checked in with me. I mean, they're really great. So she did check on me. Literally. Like what? Today? Sun checked me Friday and I was like, why is not the standard of care?

Kiona:

Yeah.

Allison:

So and that's a river city. Midwifery is a well. Now it's just one just because they have other things going on. But Bailey and Lindsay are the ones who delivered my baby. But then Adriana is the one that's at River City now. And she was when I had my baby too. But she just happened to be out of town. And, um. But she's the one that. Like I said, she brought me in. She's like, Let's talk about it. And even though you don't feel like that today, let's unpack why you felt like that and let's try to prevent it from happening again. And then if it does, you know how to contact me, but call me and don't put it in the portal again, because the portal not for emergencies.

Kiona:

Yeah.

Allison:

Like I would consider that an emergency. It's like, okay, my bad.

Kiona:

But awesome. Like I absolutely love how open your midwife six months postpartum was for you to come in and get checked out. They're not leaving you or pushing you somewhere else, leaving on the sidelines. They're like, okay, I'm biased here, though, because I am an out of hospital birth worker. I love out of hospital birth. So I recognize my biases here. But I feel like the providers that are in out of hospital settings, at least that I've worked with, they're like, once you're a client, your family, like, once you're there, you're there forever. We're here to help you during your next pregnancy. We're here to help you throughout any, any moment that you need support. I remember when I was working at a birth center and we had had a client reach out to us that she was one year postpartum and she just needed some assistance with her mental health and like how her body was feeling. And she went to come in and talk about like sex and like what that was like now. And if they can get assistance. And again, we welcomed her with open arms to come and talk, and we provided her with the resources that she needed in order to get support.

Allison:

And that should be. And that's my thing. And that's what I struggle with, is because I'm like, that should be the standard of care.

Kiona:

Absolutely. Mm.

Allison:

Adriana host birth support groups and like postpartum groups within. So I guess I don't really know how to explain it, but for example, just a few months ago, like shortly after I had my son, she had had a, I think like a client lunch essentially by all of her clients, previous and current. They we meet up at a park and we all bring a dish and we're all in the same season of life and we just hang out and chitchat. You bring your babies, you don't bring your babies, you bring your spouse or whatever you want. it's really nice. It's a community, it's a network. And it's that's what we need. I feel like as families and parents, it's just.

Kiona:

Absolutely. That's exactly what it is. It's a community. You know, It is a community. And that just brings me to think about, like, what I'm hoping to accomplish with the birth as we know it listeners, because I have a private Facebook group where we have that connection happening and it's with people in the seasons of life of just having babies or being a birth worker or just wanting to connect and have questions and answers. And, you know, just having that sense of community is absolutely necessary for all people. So I love that you have that for you and still have it for you.

Allison:

Creating that for others.

Kiona:

Thank you. You are now part of the birth, as you know, community as well. The community. So, Alison, thank you so much for sharing your stories with me today. I just have three final closing questions for you. And the first question is, what is one piece of advice that you would give to other pregnant people as they prepare for pregnancy, labor and birth?

Allison:

One piece. Just one. The one piece would be to do your homework, prepare your body mentally and physically, and invest in your birth team and whatever way that looks for you, whether that's at hospital or out of hospital. Put in the work for the education for yourself. Hire the doula. And if that's not within your means of something to do, have a provider that you trust and a provider that trusts you.

Kiona:

I love that. I think it's so important. I absolutely do. And I think that it is great advice because you can hear in your stories why that piece of advice rings true to you. So I love that. My second question would be what is one resource that I can share with our listeners on your behalf?

Allison:

So my tried and true resource that I always recommend to people and I get nothing from doing this, but is Bridget Taylor on YouTube? She is a childbirth educator and doula, and she offers birth classes. However, she has tons of free resources on YouTube about childbirth, medicated and unmedicated about postpartum nutrition and prenatal nutrition exercise. All of the things I just I say all the time. Like I just want to be her when I grow up. She does have courses you can buy. But the amount of free resources that she has online childbirth, education, prenatal and postpartum nutrition and exercise is just to, in my opinion, unmatched.

Kiona:

That's awesome. I'll definitely share that to the listeners. And my final question to you, Allison, is if you could describe your births with one word, what would it be?

Allison:

I think I wouldn't and it might sound cliche, but I think I would have to say transformative for both, because while I kind of wish I would have never had to have gone through what I went through with my daughter, I do truly believe it has brought me to the place that I am now, mentally and physically, not even not just with birth, but as a person in general. Just because it took me down a path of healing and self recognition and just learning all the things about life in general. Just, you know.

Kiona:

Yeah, I love that. Transformative is absolutely an amazing word to describe this journey that you have been on and are on still with your six month old son Kai, like it's absolutely in progress. And I'm happy to hear that it is a more redemptive experience than your last. Now, I will say that in knowing that, just like you said, not everything is sunshine and rainbows, right? There are still challenges, there's still sleep deprivation, there's still ups and downs. And that is what makes us human. So, yeah.

Allison:

The very obvious difference that I've been able to vocalize as far as like my mental health with my daughter versus with my son. As with my daughter, I would see bad days and I couldn't see my way out. And with my son, even if we have a bad day, I'm able to wake up every single day and say, Today is going to be a good day. And if it's not, tomorrow will be too.

Kiona:

Hmm. I love that.

Allison:

Is every day. We'll try again tomorrow, right?

Kiona:

Yes, absolutely. I love that so much. Allison, thank you again for coming on. I appreciate you sharing your stories. And I'm just so excited to get this experience out to the world because I know there are so many people out there that can relate with you on this.

Allison:

Thank you so much for having me.

Outro:

This interview with Allison gave me such a reminder about something extremely important, and that is that the definition of trauma is defined by the person who experiences the event. They are the ones that remember how they were cared for and how they feel and what was done that made them feel as if the situation or event was traumatic. The reason why I find that to be so important is because in society today, it is so easy for everyone to judge one another and to compare to one another. So let's have that be a solid reminder that the definition of trauma is defined by the person who experiences it. Allison You also taught me that pushing past your comfort zone is exactly what we do every day. When you found out that you were pregnant with Kai, it was not overexaggerated. I am going to validate your emotions again because it truly was how you were feeling in the moment. And I think that it's important because even though there are many people out there that do experience the struggle of conception, it does not mean that every person who does conceive is happy about it or excited. There's a lot of fear, sadness and other emotions that come along with conception as well. So, Alison, thank you so much for sharing your story with me and the BAWKI listeners. I am super excited that everybody got to listen because I guarantee you something was learned today. Now, if you're still listening, I want to thank you for sticking around. I also want to say that you are dedicated, which means you should absolutely join the private Facebook group for the BAWKI listeners. You can do that by going to birthasweknowitpodcast. com/community. And if you love this podcast and want to contribute to the production, You can go to birthasweknowitpodcast. com/support. for the next episode. You are absolutely going to want to tune in because I had the opportunity to interview two people Jeff and Tessa Sanders. Jeff and Tessa go into detail about what it was like for Tessa to utilize Hypnobirthing during her labours. They also chose out of hospital birth for both of their experiences. one of which was at the infamous farm that is spoken about lots with Ina May Gaskins books and one at home. So tune in to hear all of the juicy details about that and how these births led to each of them catching their babies. All right, friends, I look forward to talking with you again soon. Bye for now.

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Kiona Nessenbaum

Host

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