68-Mandy Sanford-Choroid Plexus Cysts-Vaginal Birth-Brooke

In this episode, Mandy shares what it was like to be pregnant for the first time with her daughter Brooke. She dives into detail about a choroid plexus brain cyst scare that happened midway through her pregnancy as well as how her birth went quicker than expected. We end our interview by talking about her current pregnancy at the time of recording.  

birthasweknowitpodcast.com/68 

Disclaimer: This podcast is intended for educational purposes only with no intention of giving or replacing any medical advice. I, Kiona Nessenbaum, am not a licensed medical professional. All advice that is given on the podcast is from the personal experience of the storytellers. All medical or health-related questions should be directed to your licensed provider. 

Check-out episode 26-Darriean Steady-Miscarriage-2 Births-Vaginal-Cesarean-Kira & Owen 

Resources:

• The Big Book of Organic Baby Food- Amazon (not affiliated)
• Bridget Teyler Youtube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/@BridgetTeyler
• Perinatal Support of Washington: https://perinatalsupport.org/ 
• Postpartum Support International:https://www.postpartum.net

Definitions:

• Choroid Plexus Cysts
• Round Ligament Pain
• Different Trisomies
• Pain R

Transcript

Intro: 0:08

Welcome to Birth As We Know It, a podcast that is dedicated to recognizing the many different ways that birth unfolds. I am your host, Kiona Nessenbaum. I have experienced birth as a doula a student midwife, a birth assistant, and as a mother of three amazing children of my own. After attending over 140 births, I've realized that each birth experience is truly unique. So make sure you subscribe and join me as we are guided through many different birth experiences through the lens of the storyteller. P be aware that some of these stories can be triggering to hear. So feel free to pause, take a breath, and come back and listen whenever you're ready. With that said, let's prep ourselves to dive deep and get detailed about what really happens in the birth state.

Disclaimer: 1:04

As a reminder, this podcast is intended for educational purposes only and has no intention of giving or replacing any medical advice. All advice that is given on the podcast is from the personal experiences of the storytellers. All medical or health related questions should be directed to your license provider.

Kiona: 1:24

Before we dive into this episode, I want to say that you are awesome and I would love to see you in the birth as we know, a podcast community on Facebook. You can join by going to birth as we know what podcast dot com forward slash community. once you send in your request, I will be the first one to welcome you to the Bochy family. Now, if you like this episode, I would suggest that after you're done, you should tune in to episode 26 with Darian as she talks about her birth experience with Kiera and Owen. All right, let's get into this episode. Hello, everybody, and welcome back to the Earth as we Know It podcast Today I am excited to have on an old friend of mine named Mandy Stanford, and we have actually been friends for quite a while. We played basketball together third through eighth grade and now we're both grown married with kids, so it's a lot of fun to reconnect. Mandy will be talking to us today about the birth of her daughter Brooke, and she is also currently 18 weeks pregnant at the time of this recording with another girl. So welcome, Mandy. Thanks so much for coming on today.

Mandy: 2:29

Thank you so much for having me. So excited.

Kiona: 2:32

Yeah. I am super excited to dive into this because we've been trying to schedule for quite some time and I'm just excited to finally like hear the full on story because there are some things that are a little bit different that brought up some concerns throughout your pregnancy. So let's go all the way back to the beginning where you and your husband, Thomas, decided, Hey, it's time for a baby.

Mandy: 2:54

Yeah. So we got married in January 2022 and we had talked about like when we want to have a baby and we were like, you know, do we want to wait a while? Do we want to just be married for a little bit and we ended up we're like, we want to have, you know, at least two kids. So we should probably get started so, yeah, we got in January and found out that I was pregnant at the end of May of 2022.

Kiona: 3:24

what were you feeling when you found out you were pregnant?

Mandy: 3:27

I think I was in disbelief, kind of, you know, I couldn't believe it was actually saying positive on on the tests and excited. I was a little nervous, but mostly really excited.

Kiona: 3:42

How did Thomas feel? Was he feeling the same?

Mandy: 3:45

She was really excited. I think he was less nervous than me.

Kiona: 3:49

Oh, that says a lot. I mean, he was ready, right?

Mandy: 3:52

Yeah.

Kiona: 3:54

So when you found out you were pregnant, when was the first time you experienced any symptoms or did you experience any big symptoms throughout your pregnancy?

Mandy: 4:02

I'm trying to remember, it's so funny because it really wasn't that long ago. But you forget. I was really lucky. I think and I really I had a little bit of morning sickness, but not really. I was tired here and there, like more than usual. But other than that, I tried to work out quite a bit like during while I was pregnant and I got round ligament pain, which was not fun. I was like, What is wrong? but other than that, it really wasn't wasn't bad.

Kiona: 4:39

Yeah, that's good. That's really good. And so throughout your pregnancy, at any point, did you and Thomas decide, hey, I want to look into some childbirth education in order to prepare for labor and birth.

Mandy: 4:51

No, not really, though we. So his sister had just had a baby. So her daughter's six months older than ours. And his mom has had five kids and my mom had three. And so we kind of felt like, well, questions along the way. We have people right here that we can talk to. And I don't know. I like to prepare, but I also. try not to overwhelm myself. And sometimes I feel like if I get too much information, then I am more freaked out than when I started. So we tried to, you know, just what questions came up to ask people or ask our doctor, and then just kind of we're like, I don't know how much we can really prepare because we don't know. You know what I mean?

Kiona: 5:37

Right? Right. Yeah. So when you found out you were pregnant in was your first thought. I'm just going to birth in a hospital or did you have any question on whether or not you were going to do an alternative location?

Mandy: 5:49

I wanted to give birth in the hospital, but I wasn't sure how much intervention I wanted. I was like, I don't really know. You know, I kind of want to see how it goes and see what happens. So that's kind of what I did.

Kiona: 6:05

Yeah, that's good. That's good. So at what point in your pregnancy did you learn about the two choroid plexus cysts that were on Brooke's brain?

Mandy: 6:16

That was the 20 week ultrasound. And I remember. their platform is my chart. And they send the results before somebody calls you which can be good or not so good. So I'm reading it and I'm like reading through and then it. It doesn't say abnormal, when it said like brain, it's up to cysts blahblahblah. And And then the doctor called me and said, Hey, you know, everything looks good. There were two cysts on the baby's brain, but honestly, try not to lose sleep over it. Any questions? And I was like, Oh, I guess I'm okay. You know, what would a million things running through my mind. And I was thinking to myself, like, why can't the cyst be, like, on her arm or something? Why do they have to be on her brain? It's like the scariest place. But yeah, they one was actually, I think like ten. Mm. And the other was six I think, which is. Not small, From what I read, they like them to be in single digits. If they're there. So. Yeah.

Kiona: 7:25

Yeah. And so after your doctor said, Don't lose sleep about it, Like what? What else is going through your mind? It's like after that phone call ended. Did you do a little bit of your own research to figure out a little bit more about it?

Mandy: 7:37

Yeah. I was like, Oh my gosh, I'm never having other children. This is too much. It's I was so freaked out and looking back, it ended up fine, thankfully. And everything I read was like, This is a normal finding. This happens sometimes it's like 2% of kids or something. Nothing I read. Well, first of all, there's not a lot out there about it because it's rare. Which didn't help me and. Nothing I read made me feel better because I wanted to see her for proof that she was okay. But we had a follow up, I think it was eight weeks later, and the doctor said, Oh, they're always gone by the second one, so don't. Don't even worry about it. And one was gone and one wasn't in the second one, but they were like, Yeah, kids are born with them and you don't even know it. I was like, Okay, I guess it's okay.

Kiona: 8:34

yeah. I mean, it's hard because I think that's a hard place to be as a provider because it's something that the provider knows how to deal with or, you know, they're like, Oh, it's no big deal. We usually know the same outcome. Like nothing really happens from this. But as a parent, especially being pregnant for the first time, you're like fists cysts in the brain. What the heck? You know, like, what is this like? Why? How is this not big, you know, especially with the brain being so important.

Mandy: 9:02

And the thing that really freaked me out too, was it's a marker for Trisomy 18, I think.

Kiona: 9:09

Hmm.

Mandy: 9:10

But kids don't live with that. They live for like a couple of days. And I was like, oh my gosh. It's like, that was the only thing that showed up, right? Like, there were no other markers for that, right? You know, And, yeah, it was it was scary.

Kiona: 9:25

Yeah. And so I feel like that as a birth worker would be scarier to hear than cysts. But just because it was a marker. Was there any follow up on that? Any follow up scans specifically for the trisomy

Mandy: 9:38

no. I had done the genetic testing earlier and it had come back. Okay. And they did the anatomy scan. None of the other things popped up that they look for for that. So. I was just like, okay, I guess just we're okay.

Kiona: 9:55

Right. And that's all we can really do, right? Like, there's nothing that we can really do about being pregnant with the baby we're pregnant with. Go with the flow and trust our providers in guiding us in the right direction. Right. tell me a little bit about when you were getting later in pregnancy, what you were doing to prepare for Brooke's arrival.

Mandy: 10:14

So when we started getting closer, I was like, maybe I should watch something because I've never seen a birth or anything like that. And a lot of my friends had already had kids. I was telling my husband, like, it's kind of like getting married. Like I always wanted to get married, but I never thought about the wedding at all. Like, didn't really have a plan for the wedding. And the same thing with kids. Like, I knew I wanted kids, but I never thought about the birth and I was like, Well, maybe I should look up something on YouTube, you know, like, see if there's any, like, labor preparation stuff on there. And there was one girl that I watched a little bit. Her name is like Bridget Taylor. And I watched a little bit. Honestly, I was like, I feel like nothing I really watch is going to I'm going to have to go through it to get it.

Kiona: 11:03

Right. Yeah, I think that is definitely a safe thing to assume, is that you kind of have to just go through it to understand it. Because it's true, because you can prep as much as possible, right? You can do all the research and everything, and then there's still a chance that things won't go as planned. one of the benefits of actually doing research is knowing what may be happening. Having that slight hint of like, Oh, this might be happening. I read about this before or I watched a video on this before, so that's awesome. But for people that get really overwhelmed and kind of scared with more information, it's better to just go with the flow because I was literally just talking to someone who is a midwife who birthed her, her two children. And I asked her, what is it like to be a midwife while birthing and then having like the complications that she did? she's like, honestly knowing more about it was more anxiety ridden because she knew too much, like she knew everything that could happen, you know? So there's both sides of the spectrum there.

Mandy: 12:06

I didn't want to be unprepared, but I didn't. Like you said, like I felt like there was only so much I could really do.

Kiona: 12:12

Mm hmm.

Mandy: 12:13

You know?

Kiona: 12:14

Very true.

Mandy: 12:15

I was looking at the thing that I really wanted to focus on, but I wanted to make sure I knew was contractions because honestly, like they describe contractions, but I don't really, you know, like I feel like after I had when I was like, oh, no, I didn't know what that was like until I had it. You know, I think I read all about it, and how far apart they were. Like when. When you know, you need to go. T what I want to make sure I do.

Kiona: 12:40

Yeah. Yeah. Those are really, really good points too. Especially with living in a place where the hospital's a little further away and you know that there's going to be a drive ahead of you. And there's so many moving parts that people don't necessarily focus on. Like in Seattle, we talk a lot about, oh, if you happen to be starting labor during traffic time. Try to leave sooner than the normal marker time because you could be stuck in traffic for

Mandy: 13:08

Well,

Kiona: 13:09

an

Mandy: 13:09

my.

Kiona: 13:09

hour and then things would change,

Mandy: 13:11

My.

Kiona: 13:11

you know? So. Yeah. Horrible. Coming up with backup plans, routes, like all these things. So it's definitely important to think about all the details.

Mandy: 13:22

Oh, my gosh.

Kiona: 13:24

So let's go ahead and dive into the birth like. When did you know that you were in labor with Brooke?

Mandy: 13:30

So my baby shower was on the seventh. She was supposed to be born on the 30th and so we had her baby shower on the seventh. Nothing happened the next day and then I took a nap on Sunday, which I'm not really a napper. And I was like really tired. So I went to sleep, fell asleep for like 3 hours in the middle of the day, and then got up. Everything was fine. went to sleep around midnight or something. So I was just kind of

like wired. And then at 1: 13:55

00 in the morning, like really close

to 1: 14:00

00, my water broke and I swear I heard it. I don't know if I'm crazy or not, but I swear I heard it. it was weird, though, because I knew that it wasn't like the movies, where it's like your water breaks. It's just everywhere, you know? It's this huge thing. But didn't know what it really was like. I was like, Oh, that's kind of weird because it's slow. It was slow at first I knew it was really early, so I was three weeks early. So it was like, Maybe it is, but I don't know, I'll just watch it I tried to go back to sleep and I couldn't sleep, and I think it was at least an hour before I really felt anything and I wasn't really sure what was happening. And so I'm a teacher and I got up to and wrote some plans because I was like, well, probably going to be gone tomorrow because I'm going to have to go to the doctor for first appointment because something's going on. But I don't really know what it is. then like for three or so, I was like, Well, I think maybe we need to go in. Like, I think I feel like I'm getting more I think I'm having contractions. Like, you should probably go because we live 45 minutes away my husband's like, Okay, okay. And so we called the hospital and said that we were maybe going to come in. And then I got in the shower. I was in there for like 5 minutes and was like, I can't do this. I need to we need to go. And so we called them back and headed in. Of course, it's winter and it's icy and it's the middle of them. It's like worst case scenario, like to go to the hospital. there are deer everywhere. But we made it.

Kiona: 15:35

Oh, no.

Mandy: 15:37

Oh, it was funny, too, because I was I had read a little bit, but, you know, like, have music or something or music that you like to kind of calm you down on the way there. So I was like, okay, okay. So we get in the car and I like, we had to put the girls, but we have to like, put a towel under me because I was like, I was leaking so bad, and I start music and then we're going down the road. I was like, Forget this. I don't want to listen to this, but it's too much. And my contractions were really close together by the time we got there. It was really fast we get to the hospital and I had two contractions walking to the door from the car and the nurse was I think she said she was a traveling nurse. and honestly, like, everything was really like I'm happy with how the birth went and everything's like a big scheme of things. But, I think the nurse thought that because it was my first baby, I didn't know really what was going on because she was like, Oh, honey, you're fine, you know? And like, because I was like, I think I do contractions coming. And she's like, okay. Like, oh, she took me and we like, go up the elevator and then my room, I'm not joking was the last one in the hall, and she's walking out in front of me and she's like, Don't feel like you have to keep up with me. And I was like, I can't. So I guess I'll.

Kiona: 16:59

Yeah. She just left you behind.

Mandy: 17:02

But it was like the middle of the night and whatever. But I said, Hey, I think my water's broken. And she's like, I don't know. And I'm like, leaking all over the floor when it gets bad. And so they took a test and it came back negative. For some reason. And so she said, Well, it's negative. So I was like, Well, then what? What is this then, you know? she said, Well, we'll take another test. And then it takes like an hour to come back or something like that. And so that's that's kind of how it started. So it's it's like for probably like 430 in the morning by that time. And I had sort of a birth plan, but I had never even gone over one with the doctor because she was so early. So I'd never talk to my doctor about the birth at all. So I was like, Well, I guess I really am going to win this one.

Kiona: 17:53

Just going for it. So with the tests, the one that took like an hour or something, that's interesting to me. I wonder if it had to do with like staffing, because the two tests that I think of when it comes to water breaking is like a Nirtazine strip, which is like a piece of fabricated strip that will turn dark blue if your fluid is on it and it starts out like orange tan. And then the other one is a fern test, which is where they take a sample of whatever fluid is coming out of you, whether it's from your pad or usually it's actually from a swab, I believe. And they put it onto a little glass to put it under the microscope. And if your water did break, then it looks like a fern, like a tree fern.

Mandy: 18:37

Oh,

Kiona: 18:38

Because of the way that it kind of crystallizes and stuff. So I'm interested in why it would take an hour. I don't know any other test maybe, I don't know. But

Mandy: 18:47

yeah.

Kiona: 18:47

she sounded like she might have been tired that day, you know? Not trusting you...

Mandy: 18:54

They do have a staffing. They have had one. So like a staffing shortage. And so maybe that had something to do with it, too. But I don't know. by the time I got to the hospital, though, I was like, Yeah, I want an epidural. Like, I don't want to do this.

Kiona: 19:10

Did they tell you how far dilated you were?

Mandy: 19:13

No, because nobody checked me until, like five in the morning. Or something. And so I was there for quite a while because I think they thought that I wasn't progressing as far as I was when the doctor came, the doctor came and checked. she's like, Oh, you're already five centimeters dilated. Like, are you planning to have this baby? Naturally. Well, it was like, No, I never said that. so they gave me a fentanyl drip. Which, you know, it does take the edge off, but it's not you're not pain free. And I wasn't expecting to be, but I was just like, okay, I mean, this is better than what I was doing before. And just had that for quite a while. And, I remember the sitting was really hard. I wanted to stand up. and another nurse had come in and said like, you know, if you want an epidural, you got to sit down. And I was like, okay, you know what? I do want one. So yeah. But they came to do my I.V., and the girl missed a couple of times. And I have, like, my veins stick out really far. And I think I don't know what I don't know what happened because I don't usually have problems with my veins. And so they were like, well, we got to call the other guy, and that brings the machine. And that was going to take like half hour or 45 minutes or something like that. It's like, okay, I think by like six or so the doctor was busy and this other nurse came in to check in was like, You need to start pushing this, you're ready to go. And I was like, Okay, I guess I'll just go for.

Kiona: 20:48

Didn't have the epidural.

Mandy: 20:50

And so I was like, Okay. So I start pushing and then the doctor comes and he was like, No, no, you're nine and a half. You need to stop. so I did, Although it's a lot harder to stop once you've started. And so I said, you know, my fitness has worn off. And I was like, if I'm not going to give an epidural, can I have more of that? And the nurse said that it was going to harm the baby or make the baby. Sleepy or something like that, she said. Not harm, but she said that it would affect the baby. And I was like, Well, can we talk to the doctor about that? Or, she's like, Well, I'll give you a half. I was like, Okay. And then she comes back and she said, The doctor told me, I have to give you a full one. It's like, okay. So anyway, then

there's a shift change at 7: 21:40

00, and it was just smooth sailing after that. It was it was awesome. I got the epidural right away. They came right in and did it. And I listened to Jamie's interview when she said the epidural is like a cheat code.

Kiona: 21:56

Yeah.

Mandy: 21:57

I think she's. When I listened, I was like, I know exactly what she means because that's how it felt there. It was like, Oh my gosh, like, this is wow, I could do this for a while.

Kiona: 22:08

Mm.

Mandy: 22:09

And they actually have a student doctor like for UW. And they're like, Oh, is it okay if he comes in? And I was like, Yeah, I don't care. Come on, man. The more the merrier. So yeah, after I got the epidural, she was born in like an hour. the whole thing was about 8 hours. A little bit, I guess a little bit over, but about eight.

Kiona: 22:29

About eight. Yeah. So there's a couple of things that stick out to me that are interesting the fentanyl drip. Like getting a second one after you were pushing and then not pushing. That's interesting to me, because some people hold off giving a dose of fentanyl when you're close to birth, like when they think birth is imminent. And it makes me question some of the provider's decisions. Not that it was a bad choice. I obviously wasn't there or anything like that. But it's so interesting because that's why it's important to have a continuity of care with your staff, because when he's like, No, you're nine and a half actually stop pushing and you're over here struggling now, like trying to hold back all of this, I'm sure. And then also how you were nine and a half and still able to get the epidural during Shift change. It's awesome.

Mandy: 23:14

I was really surprised, too, because I was like, pretty sure I'm too far to get one. And they were like, No, no, that's that's not how it works. I was like, Oh, okay. And, you know, maybe I had asked for another. I can't remember the order of like when the fentanyl had warn off me. Maybe it was before I started pushing. But I think what I remember is I had just gotten the second one and then they gave me the epidural and I said, Is that okay? Because like, I just got this. I remember asking that. And they were like, Yeah, it's fine. It's

Kiona: 23:47

And I will say, when you're in labor, there is a time warp for sure. Did that happen with you too?

Mandy: 23:53

Yes, that's true, too. Yeah.

Kiona: 23:54

Yeah, because there's times that I'm like, I swear that this just happened and it's like, No, that was 3 hours ago. And I was like, Oh, okay, you know. But yeah, that's so interesting. I'm happy that you were able to get the epidural. But also it does sound like they were low staffed with like how long you had to wait for things with you being the very last room on the end, which probably meant the other rooms were full as well. And that's a lot of doing it, but. You.

Mandy: 24:19

Thanks. I know there was a twins born that night. And so I think maybe if everyone was there. I can't even imagine to twins so

Kiona: 24:30

Yeah. I can't either. And I give all the praise to the people that can handle that, because it is. One is enough for me in my body to, you know. Twins.

Mandy: 24:40

Oh, yeah.

Kiona: 24:41

Oh. once you once Brooke was born, like, how how was that for you? Was it smooth? Like, did they have to use any instruments or did she come out just totally fine?

Mandy: 24:50

She didn't have to use any instruments, but she kept coming out and going back in and she had the biggest conehead I've ever seen on a baby. She came out. We're like well at least there's hats, you know?

Kiona: 25:07

At least there's that's. Isn't it crazy how quickly they go away, though?

Mandy: 25:12

Oh, my gosh. Yeah. I was like, Oh, wow, I hope this hope this goes down a little bit. Her ear was also really, like, squished and looked like it wasn't form. It was weird. It was so weird. And I was like, and their like, no, no. That that goes back to normal. I was like, Oh my goodness. Cause that's a little rough.

Kiona: 25:30

Yeah. Kairo was also born with a strange ear. Like his ear was, like, flat on the top. Like it was, like, curved and everything on the bottom. But the top part was just flat, against his head. And you could lift it away, but you could tell that it was just pushed against my pelvis or something for a really long time. I was like, Oh gosh, I hope that goes away. I was like, messin with it when he was born. so? How was your immediate postpartum time? Did she come up to your chest, immediately after birth?

Mandy: 25:59

Yes, she so as she came out, she didn't make noise at first and did a whole bunch of blinking and kind of was like looking and then cried But it freaked me out a little bit. Because she took a little bit not that long, like not too scary, but it was delayed for sure. And then they they put her on me.

Kiona: 26:21

Yeah, it's. When that happens.

Mandy: 26:23

Oh, my gosh. Yeah. So I was like, the whole time, like, that's what you're working for. the whole nine months, you know, and it's like, Oh my gosh, she's okay, you know? I think most of when my mom took a picture of her, like I'm holding her and then Thomas is right next to me and Brooke looks like a straight up alien. Like, I remember thinking like, Oh, she's so cute. You know, like, is it your own kid? Like, oh, my gosh, I can't believe I'm holding her. And I look at those pictures and I'm like, Yikes. Like that.

Kiona: 26:54

Yeah. I will say as a birth worker, like newborn babies are very alien. Like like they really are. And it's just so strange because it's just how it is. Like There are very few babies from families that I've supported that were born just cute right off the. Most of them look like aliens, you know, have wonky heads, big eyes or, you know, something. But they round out pretty well. They. Grow

Mandy: 27:21

Make

Kiona: 27:21

into

Mandy: 27:22

it better.

Kiona: 27:22

themselves. Yeah.

Mandy: 27:24

She had one eye that she didn't really want to open. So she's just like looking at us with this one eye thing

Kiona: 27:30

Yeah.

Mandy: 27:30

for a while.

Kiona: 27:32

That's okay. She was like, was bright out here.

Mandy: 27:35

What the heck? I'm early.

Kiona: 27:36

Yeah. Yeah. So with that reminder that she was early, did you have to get any kind of shot at all to help her lungs develop? Did they give you anything like that because. Well, thre weeks early is 37 weeks. So she is term. She was still for full term, but it was just sooner than you guys expected her to be there.

Mandy: 27:56

Yeah, because really, I had no I mean, it was my first one too, but like, I had no indication she was coming or really, I never even had Braxton Hicks. So I really was like I had no idea. And they said, you know, obviously, you know, like if she would have been one day earlier than she technically would have been a preemie. And so at 37, though, they were still kind of treating her like a preemie. I don't remember. She didn't get any shots, I don't think. But she was six pounds, ten ounces. So she wasn't tiny. But they were concerned about her eating because they just said that that week is an important week for them. Learning the skills they need to eat. And so I had I had to do this crazy like pumping and then put things and put it in a syringe mix and then also some formula stuff. And honestly, I don't remember exactly how it's kind of a blur. But I kept like a notebook of every time she ate and how much she made of what for like a month. Because was like, I want to make sure, you know, she grows like she's supposed to. And everything. but it's funny, looki back, it was a lot. But at the time I was like, I'll just do whatever, you know? I didn't didn't cross my mind that this is like, just crazy like the schedule we were on. But you don't even think about it when you're like, Oh, it's my baby. Of course I'm going to do whatever, you know.

Kiona: 29:19

Right. Yeah. And I think that's what a lot of people experience because people barely get any warning of how sleep deprived you actually are and.

Mandy: 29:28

Oh, my gosh. Yeah.

Kiona: 29:30

Yeah, like nobody really talks about it, but it's huge and it's like, almost like, deathly like it feels. Like you're going to just crash at any given time.

Mandy: 29:44

Yeah. And it's funny because before you have a baby, you know, people tell you all kinds of stuff. And the thing that I thought was the most true was like, get as much sleep as you can because you never will again. And I was like, Oh, yeah, sure, I'm never going to sleep again. But it's not the same for sure,

Kiona: 30:03

how old is Brooke now?

Mandy: 30:04

almost 18 months. She'll be two months in July. She didn't sleep through the night for the first year. She woke up every few hours for a year straight. It's funny, though, because, like I said, you just do it and then once you start sleeping more, you're like, Whoa, I was really tired, you know?

Kiona: 30:21

Yeah. You don't realize what you're missing until you get it back because. When you are sleep deprived, you are literally living off of the minutes, the seconds of sleep that you get.

Mandy: 30:32

Yeah.

Kiona: 30:33

So if anybody listening to this is pregnant with your first kiddo, or even if it's like a subsequent kiddo and you haven't had that sleep deprivation for a while, just be prepared. It's going to hit you like a it's going to hit you hard.

Mandy: 30:46

And then it gets better.

Kiona: 30:47

Yes, it gets better, but sometimes it takes a while. Like when you think about it. when someone hasn't had the experience of being a parent and being sleep deprived and then you hear, Oh, it took a year for them to get on to a better sleep schedule and not even like sleeping through the night, but just better, That blows people's mind, like a whole year of sleep deprivation.

Mandy: 31:12

Yeah.

Kiona: 31:14

Talk to me about your feeding experience with Brook. Did you breastfeed and how was it after you did the supplementation?

Mandy: 31:20

I did breastfeed. I breastfed her for a year. And nobody in my family had breastfed and so I had no experience with that at all. And I was like, I want to try it and I want to I'd like to do it. And with her being so little. And also I found out like I have flat nipples or I did. And so I had to give a the shield, the nipple shield thing. we had used that for a while. And then after like a month or two, maybe month, maybe two. I didn't have to use it anymore. And it was fine. It was a it was an adjustment for sure. Like, I'd never seen a breast pump before. So I was like, Well, I'll try this. And then after a while, it's just like, you know, your best friend, like it goes with you everywhere, so, yeah, the beginning was hard. But again, I didn't really realize it was hard until it looked back because, you know, you just do what you got to do. And then when I went back to work, I pumped at work. And so just getting the schedule down it really wasn't that bad, but it was just another thing that I had to do, you know, which I'm glad that I did it.

Kiona: 32:30

Yeah. That's awesome. Yeah, I agree with you with seeing a breast pump for the first time, I was like, What is this? Like it is so much. And like when I first saw. Like this might be TMI for people that aren't used to listening to this podcast, but for those that are regular listeners, it's not going to be TMI. When I looked at my nipples, when they were being pulled by the pump, I was like, Whoa. My nipples are hella elastic like they

Mandy: 32:57

Yeah,

Kiona: 32:57

are. They

Mandy: 32:58

I

Kiona: 32:58

get

Mandy: 32:58

couldn't

Kiona: 32:58

pulled

Mandy: 32:58

believe.

Kiona: 32:59

so far? Yeah. Okay.

Mandy: 33:03

woah okay.

Kiona: 33:05

But it's so interesting because the things that we have to decide on as parents, we don't necessarily realize how much work went into that decision until you get through it. You know, like the okay, I'm deciding to breastfeed, okay, If I'm going back to work, that means I have to pump. Okay, when can I pump in my work day? Where can I pump X, Y, and Z? Like, how do I do all of these things? And you're a teacher, so you're like, How do I make sure students don't walk in on?

Mandy: 33:30

and it's not just the pumping. It's like you have to set up and then you pump and then you got to clean everything So it's not like gross for next time and stuff. And that takes time, too.

Kiona: 33:41

And storing the milk properly.

Mandy: 33:43

Yeah. And if you have to do anything that day, you have to plan your day around that and like, make sure you have somewhere that you can pump. I did a lot of pumping in my car

Kiona: 33:52

Yeah.

Mandy: 33:52

and was just like, Well, this is just what it is.

Kiona: 33:55

Mm hmm.

Mandy: 33:56

But yeah, she ate every 3 hours for a long time. like it was forever. It was crazy because you start planning your day in like three hour increments, like,okay , she needs to eat. And then when that's done, when I can get a couple of things done, if I'm not, if I don't need a nap and she's not napping

Kiona: 34:11

Mm

Mandy: 34:11

or

Kiona: 34:11

hmm.

Mandy: 34:11

you know what I mean? Like.

Kiona: 34:13

Yeah, It's. It's insane. Yeah. So tell me a little bit more about. your mood and how you were feeling postpartum and then how your body felt afterwards as well.

Mandy: 34:24

I feel like I was really fortunate postpartum and I was really happy. I was just like, She's here. I was pretty stressed. While I was pregnant. not in a detrimental way. I don't think that. Like, I was so worried, especially after I found out about this. It's like, what did I do to her? Like, did I do this somehow? You know, I was so worried about doing everything right to make sure that I didn't harm her in any way, that when she came out and she was okay, I was so relieved. and my husband was home. He took some time off, which was really nice. And we have a lot of family close, which was really nice too. So we were really lucky. I did find out after her. she was a few weeks old. So I have a I have a pretty slow heart rate. Anyway. And actually, when I was having her or after I had her, one of the nurses asking me, is your pulse usually low? Like, pretty low. And I was like, Europe's kind of low. You know? And she was like, okay. And they didn't say anything else to me about it. But when I had, like, a watch on and I remember, sitting with her and feeding her liver and looking and it's like in the forties and I was awake and like, sitting there and then it would like, go back up a little bit, but it was very low. And when I was sleeping, it like dropped down into the thirties. And so I was like, I think I need to say something. And so I did go in. which that was. I think that was like the most emotional thing that I did. Looking back now, I'm like, it's like, you're fine. It's not that big of a deal. So at the time I was like, What if I have to go to the hospital and what if I'm going to leave? I'm going to leave her. Like, how am I going to feed her? What is she going to do? and they, they, like, ran this whole test on me. And they were like, well, you just have a slow heartbeat, And then it ended up going back to normal, But it freaked me out for a little bit.

Kiona: 36:18

Yeah, it's so interesting because I wonder if it has to do with your how your body was conditioned growing up because we played a lot of sports and there are a lot of runners who have low heart rate consistently. Like I had a client who was in labor and the highest heart rate went with 66. And.

Mandy: 36:40

Oh, my God.

Kiona: 36:40

She was

Mandy: 36:41

Wow.

Kiona: 36:41

and she was just coasting and her husband was the same way. And then their baby was the same way. I'm like, okay. Baby's heart rate being

Mandy: 36:48

Wow.

Kiona: 36:48

super low, like, I mean, low for a baby. It wasn't like 66 for a baby, but I was like, wow, okay, this is so interesting. So maybe. And I, they were runners and like, you know, so maybe they're the conditioning of your heart is just like, yeah, we got this. We can stay chill, Like, it's fine.

Mandy: 37:05

Maybe, I don't know. But the doctor, when I went in, said that he had the same thing and he was a runner, too. So, yeah, maybe. I don't

Kiona: 37:14

Yeah,

Mandy: 37:14

know.

Kiona: 37:15

that's pretty cool. Your body's doing. It's supposed to do, I guess. That's great. So talk to me a little bit about your planning with this second one. So you said before we were recording, that this baby was a surprise.

Mandy: 37:29

Yeah, a little bit. I mean, we were we were planning to have another one, but when we. We're trying to have her. It didn't happen. And then we found out later. So we decided that when Brooke was a year old, that we would start thinking about it. so we tried for about a month and then nothing happened. And I was like, okay, you know, But I had only had one period since she was born when it didn't come back when I was breastfeeding, like until I quit. And I was starting to think, like, am I just never going to have one again? Like what happened? Because I've read that it'll come back like after six months or so. And I had talked to my doctor and they're like, No, some people just it takes a long time. And so I guess I was one of those people, but so I only had the one period and then I had taken a bunch of tests. They were all negative and I was like, fine, you know? And then couple like three weeks went by and I was like, I think I'm just going to take another one just in case. and I was pregnant and so.

Kiona: 38:32

I think that's awesome. And then you had mentioned also that you had to tell Thomas a little bit or educate Thomas a little bit on the fact that he's the one that decides the sex of the baby. Based off his DNA.

Mandy: 38:45

Yes. Yeah, we I think we think this is it. We're just going to have to, I think. And so were he was kind of looking for a boy and he's happy either way. But when I was a girl, he was he was excited. But I was like, you know, this is all it's really it's not me. It's you, you know,

Kiona: 39:02

Mm.

Mandy: 39:02

and. Oh, is. So I forgot to mention earlier. Sorry. When you're talking about feeding.

Kiona: 39:12

Oh, yeah.

Mandy: 39:13

Brooke had a lip tie and a tongue tie. So she got those clipped when she was almost two months old.

Kiona: 39:22

How was feeding for those two months?

Mandy: 39:25

I think it was it was hard, but I didn't know the difference. And so I honestly, I should have got them done earlier than I did I had talked to a lactation consultant a couple of times and I took her in when she was about a month old. She looked at him and was like, I think she's definitely got to tone down a little bit. You know, we don't diagnose those. You need to go into a dentist. And she gave me all the information for it. She's really, really nice. And I kind of I should have just made the appointment right away. But I was like, well, how bad is it? You know, it's like she's she's growing. And she actually never went backwards. Even after she was born, she had gained a little bit. And she's a very big baby. So she was like six months old

Kiona: 40:12

Yeah, she is a chunker, but she's like, so adorable. Oh, my gosh.

Mandy: 40:18

oh thank you.

Kiona: 40:19

Is.

Mandy: 40:19

So are your kids.

Kiona: 40:20

Oh, thanks. Let's go ahead and round off this interview and I can just ask you three final closing questions. Does that sound good?

Mandy: 40:29

Yeah.

Kiona: 40:30

Okay, awesome. My first question that I want to ask you is what is one piece of advice that you would give to all pregnant people to prepare for labor, birth and postpartum?

Mandy: 40:41

I would say don't compare yourself to all of the other people that have gone through it or are going through it or anybody. It's so easy to do. I feel like it's easy to do anyway, but especially with kids and being a parent and everyone is perfect for their own kid, I think. And you know what's best for your kids. And that's the thing that I try to remind myself, too. Everybody's different.

Kiona: 41:10

Yeah. Yeah, I would agree with that in all aspects of it. Like when it comes to making decisions about your pregnancy or your birthing, what you want to do with your birth, how you parent, What you think works best for you and your family is what works best for you and your family. Like it doesn't have to be. Oh, well, my sister does this. I have to do this like no, So my next question is what is one resource that I can share with my listeners on your behalf?

Mandy: 41:35

I got really into making baby food when I started eating solids. And I found this book on Amazon, and it's just like the big book of organic baby food or something like that.

Kiona: 41:48

Well, nice.

Mandy: 41:48

And I love it. I've made her so many cool and weird things from that book that she really liked. And there's stuff for when they first start eating and then all the way through the toddler meals limit. didn't know that I was going to get into stuff like that. And then I got really into it. So.

Kiona: 42:08

That's awesome. I love that. I think that's so cool. So would you say that Brooke has a wide variety of taste.

Mandy: 42:13

She started out that way. And now she's getting pickier. But I tried really hard. We still do. We try to feed her like a variety so that she's not picky because I was a really picky eater and I don't want her to be. And she doesn't. It's weird. Kids are weird. Like she won't. I tried to give her a tuna fish sandwich and she was like. Fake gagging. Whenever

Kiona: 42:39

Right.

Mandy: 42:40

it gets closer, I'm like,okay, she'll eat seaweed. So I'm like, I don't get, you know.

Kiona: 42:46

Whatever we're. Whatever.

Mandy: 42:49

Whatever floats your boat.

Kiona: 42:51

Right, Exactly. Okay. My last question for you is, if you could describe your birth with one word, what would it be?

Mandy: 43:00

So it's not one word, but it's life changing. I love being a mom. The best thing I've ever done. And. I love it and I knew I was going to like it and that I wanted to be a mom. And then when I became a mom, I was like, Oh my gosh, I had no idea it was going to be this great, you know,

Kiona: 43:20

Yeah. Oh, I love that so much. And I agree. Like being a mom is it is life changing and it's so phenomenal. Like, I'm looking at my kids now and I'm just like, Oh, my God. Like, first off, you guys are your own humans. Second. Like just the joy I get in seeing my kids happy brings me so much joy.

Mandy: 43:44

My gosh, me too. It doesn't matter how tired you are or what kind of day you've had, you know, you come home and, you know, she's like me. And you figured. Just being herself and laughing. She's a pretty happy kid. And it's just like, Oh, you know, just makes me happy.

Kiona: 43:59

Yeah. Y, That's awesome. I can't wait to hear about the moments of what she's like with a sibling because. It changes the dynamic and it truly expands your heart, like as a parent. Because even the other day we were at a celebration for Kairo. He was doing like this little concert thing. And Kavina surprised all of us by like coming out of class and like being in the crowd with us. And when he saw her, he just lit up like he knew that we were coming. And so when he saw her, he was like, Oh, Kavina. Like, it was just so cute. And like, I almost started crying and I was like, Oh, my God, don't cry. This is crazy, you know? But the thing that was even funner is coming back. Kavina brought it up and said, I loved how Kairo did this, and I was like, Oh my God, I saw that moment. It was so good. Anyways,

Mandy: 44:48

That's.

Kiona: 44:48

yea.

Mandy: 44:50

They're funny. Like the things that make you cry now, but, like, I never would have cried over before. Like. I teach psychology and. At the beginning. I always have them watch Monsters Inc because we talk about psychological perspectives. And I watched that movie and I hadn't seen it in a long time. And I'm like teared up a little bit at the end

Kiona: 45:13

Yeah.

Mandy: 45:13

with Boo. And so I'm like, Oh my gosh, like these. I hope these high school kids don't look at me right now because I'm kind

Kiona: 45:19

Bawling

Mandy: 45:20

of I'm

Kiona: 45:20

my eyes

Mandy: 45:20

like, okay,

Kiona: 45:20

out.

Mandy: 45:20

get it together. Yeah. Movies like that never would have made me cry before.

Kiona: 45:27

Yeah. Yeah, for sure. It's crazy. But Mandy, thank you so much for sharing your story with me. I'm super excited to get this out to the world and just have everybody learn from you as well. So thank you.

Mandy: 45:39

Well, thank you so much.

Outro: 45:52

During this interview with Mandy, I had such an awesome conversation because I got to dive a little bit deeper into my midwifery student brain when talking about the decisions that her providers were making. So that was a lot of fun for me. I also learned more about the choroid plexus cysts. I actually hadn't heard of that yet, and she taught me so much just by telling her story. Mandy, thank you so much for sharing your birth story of Brooke with us, and I hope you the happiest birth with your second daughter. That will happen here pretty soon. Now, if you enjoyed this episode, I suggest that you check out episode 26 with Darriean, where she talks about the birth of her daughter Kira, as well as the birth of her son, Owen. And the reason why I choose this episode is because Darriean was actually on the same basketball team as Mandy and myself. So that's an awesome connection right there. And as you all know already, you should definitely be part of the Birth As We Know It Facebook group you can request to join by going to birthasweknowitpodcast. com/community. And last but absolutely not the least, if you want to check out beautiful photos of Mandy and her family as well as the show notes for this episode. You can go to birthasweknowitpodcast. com/68. All right friends, I will chat with you again soon. Bye for now.