80-Carly & Jonathan Crowther-2 Vaginal Births-Kinsley & Raelynn

Carly and Jonathan experienced two very different births with their daughters. Their first daughter Kinsley was an induction at the hospital and the birth of their second daughter Raelynn was an unplanned unassisted water birth at home. Carly trusted her body and listened to her intuition throughout both experiences. Jonathan had some advantages since he was in medical school at the time both of them were born. Tune in to learn why and how this was helpful. 

birthasweknowitpodcast.com/80 

Disclaimer: This podcast is intended for educational purposes only with no intention of giving or replacing any medical advice. I, Kiona Nessenbaum, am not a licensed medical professional. All advice that is given on the podcast is from the personal experience of the storytellers. All medical or health-related questions should be directed to your licensed provider.  

Tune in to Jonathan’s sister’s episodes as well: 

16-Sarah Ziroll-3 Births-Cesarean-VBAC-Birth Made Mindful

47-Christina Packard-Miscarriage-6 Cesarean Births-Made Mindful-Etenelle, Avalinne, Olivier, Azazael, Yvette,& Eames

Resources:

• Made Mindful: https://www.birthmademindful.com/ 
  • 30% off made mindful birth and 4th trimester courses code: BirthAsWeKnowIt
• Perinatal Support of Washington: https://perinatalsupport.org/ 
• Postpartum Support International: https://www.postpartum.net
• I Was Promised A Baby-Carlos Puga : https://g.co/kgs/zXrLwuR 
• You Make Me Brave-Lauren Daigle: https://youtu.be/AEbhCEks2Jo?si=4BuctLLUBIii4lcd 

 Definitions:

• Threatened Miscarriage 
• Nuchal cord
• Subchorionic Hemorrhage 
• Ferguson / Fetal Ejection Reflex (FER)

Transcript

Intro: 0:08

Welcome to Birth As We Know It, a podcast that is dedicated to recognizing the many different ways that birth unfolds. I am your host, Kiona Nessenbaum. I have experienced birth as a doula, a student midwife, a birth assistant, and as a mother of three amazing children of my own. After attending over 140 births, I've realized that each birth experience is truly unique. So make sure you subscribe and join me as we are guided through many different birth experiences through the lens of the storyteller. Please be aware that some of these stories can be triggering to hear. So feel free to pause, take a breath, and come back and listen whenever you're ready. With that said, let's prep ourselves to dive deep and get detailed about what really happens in the birth space.

Disclaimer: 1:05

As a reminder, this podcast is intended for educational purposes only and has no intention of giving or replacing any medical advice. All advice that is given on the podcast is from the personal experiences of the storytellers. All medical or health related questions should be directed to your license provider.

Kiona: 1:24

As we dive into this episode, I want to give a huge shout out to all of my Patreon members who have been supporting me since the very beginning. Thank you so much for supporting the production of the Birth As We Know It podcast. If you want to become a patron, you can go to birthasweknowitpodcast. com/support. You are truly appreciated. Now when it comes to this episode today I interview Carly and Jon about the birth of their two daughters. One is a hospital birth and one is an unplanned and unassisted home birth. So let's go ahead and dive into the details of this juicy story and stick around because you will hear some audio from their birth video. All right. Let's get into it. Hello everybody, and welcome back to the Birth As We Know It podcast Today I am excited to have on Carly and Jonathan Crowther and they will be talking about their wonderful birth experiences with their two daughters, Kinsley and Raelynn. So welcome, Carly and Jonathan. Thanks for coming on.

Carly: 2:30

Thank you for having us. We're so excited to be here with you.

Jonathan: 2:33

Happy to share our story.

Kiona: 2:35

Yes. I'm super excited to dive into. Jon, you are a doctor and you are also a partner. So that kind of played a role in how you felt about the ways that both of these births unfolded. So I'm excited to dive into that too. Yeah, awesome. So we are going to start at the very beginning and we're going to talk about conception, you guys. So how was the conception process with Kinsley? How was that for you? Was she planned unplanned? Tell me all the things.

Carly: 3:09

So this is kind of funny Jon was in medical school and initially we were living down in New Mexico. We're both from Colorado, though, so we were kind of away from family for medical school and initially kind of being in the medical field. We're told that there's like never a good time in like training, undergrad, med school, residency, fellowship. There's never a good time to have kids. So you just kind of don't plan it around any good time. But we initially said we wanted to wait till after medical school, but COVID happened and I'm a flight attendant and I ended up getting furloughed. So instead of being gone five days a week, I was now home every day. So that's how she happened.

Kiona: 3:53

Yeah.

Carly: 3:53

We kind of were like, Well, this might be a good time to start trying, even though it's earlier than we thought. Just because I was home now, I didn't have to fly. So I don't know, we just kind of we're like, let's just start trying and see what happens. So we were in the middle of third year of medical school.

Kiona: 4:12

So, Jon, when you found out that you guys conceived a child, what was going through your head when it came to your study process

Jonathan: 4:21

Oh. I was super joyous about the information, and Carly was very cute and brought me a little present. Opened it up. There's a little onesie that said, Hello, Daddy, with a pregnancy test. And I was just very excited about that for us and for Carly, now with my studies, I was also a little, uh, didn't really know if there was a good time for all of this. But the recommendations, as Carly was saying, is just you just make it work when it happens for medical school and residency. So we were able to have our first in between our third and fourth year for for Kinsley. And then in my first year of residency for Raelynn.

Kiona: 5:06

Oh man. And residency is no joke.

Jonathan: 5:10

No. Not for the faint hearted.

Kiona: 5:12

Yeah. Absolutely not. Oh, my gosh. Okay. Carly, let's talk about how your pregnancy with Kinsley went. was there anything that you were concerned about? What were some really hardcore symptoms you had if any, at all?

Carly: 5:26

So overall, it was an amazing pregnancy, very smooth. The only hiccup we experienced was at nine weeks. I started bleeding really heavily. It was scary. It was like as heavy as a period, and I remember it was on a Sunday. So my ob gyn was closed and so I think we went to the end up going to the E.R. just because I was bleeding so heavily and I was having a threatened miscarriage. And they said it was a sub chronic hemorrhage. So at only nine weeks they were kind of stressing that I should be on bed rest and relaxing and, you know, trying to maybe save this pregnancy. I remember saying that they only really expected about a 40% chance of survival for the pregnancy. So it was really scary mentally because there wasn't a lot I could do physically to. Stop it from happening. It was really just hard mentally. Like every day, every moment, every hour. Just wondering, like, I don't know, like, is baby still there? So I was on bedrest for two weeks and then progressively like, the blood was reducing and the bleeding in my uterus was slowing. So, lik, she was getting better and better within each week. But that was kind of the only challenge we had, like the whole pregnancy.

Kiona: 6:40

Hmm. Jon, when you heard that that was a possibility of a potential loss there, what was going through your head?

Jonathan: 6:49

I think knowing too much about the issues that could happen, I was fearful, of course, but I was also very hopeful, given that, there was a clear diagnosis of it being the sub chorionic hemorrhage, which is essentially just the bleeding that happens right where the placenta meets up with the uterine wall. You had the bleeding that's right behind it. So it's not like there's bleeding in the amniotic sac or around the baby. It's more kind of around the placenta that it's happening, kind of where the blood supply from the mother and the fetal blood meet up and oxygen gets transferred and nutrients and everything. little too medical, sorry. But essentially, there's definitely some fear, especially when Carly was, gone working and still having,a little bit of spotting, a little bit of bleeding. It's like, should she go in again? Fortunately, we had a really good provider team that had frequent check ups and frequent ultrasounds, So that helped to provide a lot of reassurance along the way.

Kiona: 7:50

And so, Carly, you did start working again. At what point was that in your pregnancy?

Carly: 7:55

So I didn't get furloughed till I think I was like 20 weeks or something. So I did fly up until about 20 weeks. So that was kind of scary, having to like, am I going to bleed at work and then be like, in a different city? I need to go to a hospital in a different city. And then because it was during COVID, Jon wasn't allowed to come to any of my appointments or my ultrasounds. So it's just a very lonely time. And I'm like, he's in medical school, h right across the hall. And they, like, still wouldn't let him come into the ultrasounds. So it was just looking back, very lonely, going through that alone, you know, having like the emotional support from my family. And Jon of course, and then a lot of people praying for us, but just kind of having to face it on my own during COVID.

Kiona: 8:42

Yeah, COVID did that to so many families. And I do think that it's very unfortunate that so many people that went through pregnancies and even laborers alone during COVID time and then especially when things like this pop up, like you need your partner by you, right? You want your partner to be there and go through it with you. And then that's kind of just stripped away from me because of COVID. COVID was crazy for everybody, but I feel like it was even that much more crazy for people that were conceiving and having babies at that time.

Carly: 9:15

Yeah, it's kind of crazy to look back on.

Jonathan: 9:18

Yeah. It's it's like a healthy individual coming in to the either a hospital or a birthing system, having to deal with, a whole lot of sickness around you and that potential. Just made it very challenging I think.

Kiona: 9:32

Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Because that was all. A lot of the reason why during the height of COVID, many people decided to not birth at hospitals. And it was a lot of last minute transitions out of a hospital system which brought on its own challenges. But tell me about how you guys prepared for birth. Because, Carly, you're saying in your guest's request for me, you had said that you had to prepare mentally and physically to go unmedicated. What did you do to make that happen?

Carly: 10:04

Yeah. So looking back on it, it was kind of funny because I was thinking the opposite. I was planning to do fully medicated Epidural. I don't even want to go through this. I'm dreading even thinking about it. Like, I don't want to think about it. I don't want to talk about it. I'm just going to have to suffer through it. It's going to be the worst thing. This is what I was told my entire life by friends, family members, even just like media, like movies, shows that portray birth as being just this horrible, traumatic event. So that's how I was going into it, kind of thinking like. I just don't even want to do this. I know I have to. I just kind of want to suffer through it and get it over with. And Jon's sister, Sarah, who you've had on the show before, she's a doula and she had a positive birth experience. So she actually challenged me maybe at like 15 weeks or so. She was like, I kind of expressing, you know, my fear around labor. And she was like, Have you ever, researched the benefits of doing an unmedicated birth, like for you and the baby? And have you ever read a positive birth story? and I was kind of like, no, like, that's not something I've ever thought about or even considered. So she kind of encouraged me I read Enemy Got Scans. Guide to Childbirth. That was amazing because it had so many positive stories. And because of COVID, there weren't any hospital birthing classes. I had to find a birth class online. And I found a unmedicated birth class that I was like, okay, let me just learn about like the physiological side of birth and the ways to cope mentally and even, like, physically. Comfort measures I can learn and maybe I do want to try to do this unmedicated. So I didn't have a lot of people around me who had gone through that, other than maybe Jon's sister, you know, a couple friends who are like encouraging me. The majority of the voices were like, just do medicated and it's horrible, you know? But I was like, I actually love the idea that birth can be a positive experience. You know, I'd much rather it be a positive experience. So I started preparing mentally and physically. I took the birth course. I kind of surrounded myself with positive birth stories. Jon They talked through a birth plan. I talked to my provider, my ob gyn, a lot about my birth plan and my desire to do unmedicated in a hospital setting. And I kind of was just like, I think I want to try to do this and just kind of see what happens. I went into it thinking, I'm going to try unmedicated. You know, we'll see what happens. I'm going to do my best. And I don't know. I didn't really know what to expect.

Kiona: 12:40

Right? Yeah. No, I love that. I love that. But before I dive in to that, Jon, I want to hear about what your thoughts were when she kind of had this switch towards, Oh, I want to do this unmedicated.

Jonathan: 12:52

Right? Well, I think that honestly, that birth course was very helpful because not only did it help with providing the mother and the birthing person on what to do in the birthing process and the normal physiological things that occur, but it gave very practical tips on what the birthing partner could be. Because I had to come to realize that I was becoming the birthing partner. I was not the provider. You know, even though being in medical school, I had a whole wealth of knowledge around birth, the pathologies, the issues that can happen around it as well as, normal physiological happenings. And I had to kind of take a step back and say, okay, I'm no longer going to be that medical kind of viewpoint, and I have to step back and be that birth partner and birth support. So, yeah, I just love that birth course because it just gave that practical advice on how you can give those birth affirmations, acupressure points, and helping to collaborate in preparing a birth plan together so that you could both advocate for your birthing mother Before labor and during the birth.

Kiona: 14:09

Hmm. I think that's awesome. And I myself have to go through that switch very often because I also studied as a student midwife, but I'm also a birth doula. So when I go support someone as a birth doula, I have to turn that midwife hat off because I have to support them in the way they need to be supported like mentally and emotionally versus like clinically. So I get that. I get that switch for sure.

Jonathan: 14:35

Even just seeing various births in medical school, taking bits and pieces from different providers, different midwives, different OBGYNs, you're able to see that there's a very hands on approach, a very hands off approach, ones that, kind of help to advocate for the mother and others that more advocate for the time and efficiency of the provider, too.So kind of interesting to look at it at that perspective. But I quickly decided to side on Carly's side. Her birth plan. We got to support her.

Carly: 15:18

The choice.

Kiona: 15:20

I think that's. and I also feel like that process just has to happen sometimes, needing to actually be like, okay, wait, I am the birth partner here and the birthing person, a.k.a my wife Carly truly needs what she needs and I need to listen to her and have her guide me through this process while giving input where I can and being a team in that and taking each other's input into consideration while knowing this is what path we want to take right? So I think that's great. And Carly, tell me a little bit about what it was like when you realized that you needed to get an induction. What was the process on that?

Carly: 16:01

Leading up to it, I was trying to do unmedicated in a hospital setting during a pandemic. You know, kind of felt like everything was stacked against me already. I couldn't have a doula. I could have my husband. Thank goodness. I don't know what I would have done by myself, but, like, couldn't have a mom or a do you know Jon Sisters? So just planning on. Okay. Just Jon and I are going to try to do this unmedicated birth. the one thing that was a little frustrating for me was after my sub chronic hemorrhage at nine weeks was resolved, I was a healthy first time pregnant mama. And so being at my 36 week appointment and they're already talking about scheduling an induction at 39 weeks, and I'm like, but what's the reason for the induction? You know, like, I already feel like I had to start advocating for myself, No, I want to go into labor naturally, if baby's doing okay and I'm doing okay, I don't see why I can't wait. So it was a little frustrating having to advocate for myself that early on at 36 weeks plus, it kind of put the pressure on me mentally like, is my body slow, like, you know, And then I'm like, no. Majority of first time moms go past their due date, you know, so I was able to advocate for myself to go past my due date. Baby and I were doing great and I got up to 40 and six, so 40 weeks and six days. And I went in for a non stress test, an appointment, and they noticed that baby's heart rate was not fluctuating as it should during my Braxton Hicks or like my contractions I was having. And they also didn't love her breathing reflex. I think. Do you remember, Jon?

Jonathan: 17:35

Yeah.

Carly: 17:37

Yeah. So there was like a couple things where the midwife at the time was kind of like, hey, like, we are seeing these concerns. how would you feel about maybe doing an induction tonight? So we were almost at 41 weeks. So I called Jon and we were like, okay, we're already going off of our birth plan. This is already the first step and we're already not following our birth plan. But we just prayed about it together and we both felt peace about it. And we were like, okay, like baby, maybe needs some support I am past my due date. Like I made it to 40 and six. That was kind of my goal is was like just to let my body naturally prepare and be as ready as I can. At this point, I think I was only one centimeter dilated and like 80% effaced. So I still kind of felt like I had a long way to go. But we like checked into the hospital I, walked myself to the room. Like, it wasn't like the movies were like you're wheeled in the wheelchair screaming, you know, It was just like, very different than what I pictured. Like I had pictured laboring at home for a while, going on a walk with our two huskies, maybe even baking baby a birthday cake to eat when we get home. I didn't get to do any of that. You know, I didn't get to, like, leave her at home at all, which was just like a shift in my birth plan, but also just recognizing like, yeah, with birth, like you have to be flexible. You can have your birth plan, like your birth preferences and you can communicate that. But sometimes with birth you have to be flexible and just say, This is what's happening with my body, this is what's happening with baby, and we're just going to move on from here with this new, induction. So we ended up going in that night. Jon Port Jon had worked 12 hours that day in surgery and they started out with a cervical induction. Which is just kind of like a tampon they put next to your cervix and it just ripens your cervix. So it didn't cause any extra contractions or anything like that. Like, I was still feeling the same physically. They just put that into like ripen in my cervix and we were like, super chatty. We like we're calling people, we are calling my grandmas. And they were sharing their birth stories and I had like my birth ball and we brought snacks, We downloaded office episodes. You know, we were like, ready to just like, camp out for a couple days for this induction. they told us it was a 12 hour dose and that first time moms might need two doses. So we're like, okay, it might be like a 24 hour just like hanging out. So the nurse gave me a sleeping pill, kind of jokingly like, hey, like, this might be your last good night sleep. So I took the sleeping pill. Jon actually brought one from home, so he took one and we just started our induction. It was kind of nice just to, like, be in that calm space. We hung up my birth affirmation cards on the wall. I brought twine and little clothespins, and we, like, hung those up on the wall. I brought twinkle lights and, my own blanket and things like that, just to, like, make it be as cozy as possible And 3 hours after they put in this cervidil, it fell out. When I went to the bathroom. So my body started dilating, it was really all I needed, I guess, was just that little kickstart of Cervidil. And I was at like two centimeters or three centimeters when that fell out. And that's when my body started like ramping up and going into labor.

Kiona: 20:48

Okay. Okay. There's a lot to unpack there. But Jon, I want to hear about what your thought process was when finally choosing. Yes, we're going to do an induction and you were, fresh off a 12 hour shift. Like, what was going through your mind on how to best prepare for that?

Jonathan: 21:06

I felt unprepared in some ways just because I was so tired and I was like, Is this really going to happen? Today, of all days, a lot of times it's like you just like feeling so unprepared in that way. But the it was it was actually really nice because the orthopedic surgeon that I was on rotation with was married to a pediatrician in town. And told me that if I didn't let him have the rest of the rotation off and have a few days off, then I would get in big trouble for my wife. so I was able to get some time off for the birth, which was great, and I was able to be there. But yeah, going into it, there's kind of this unknown of how things are going to play out. And wasn't necessarily in our birth plan to induce, but, it was a very it's a very gentle induction the cervical so something that we were both, you know very comfortable with and it ended up working out just very well for us. But. I should not sleeping.

Kiona: 22:14

I was just about to ask that for both of you, because, Carly, you said you stood up at 3 hours after having to Cervidil, which means you're also possibly 3 hours after taking the sleeping aid for both of you. What is happening? Like, are you super tired while going into labor? Like, what's going on?

Carly: 22:33

Yeah, we were both, resting. I wasn't really having contractions yet. the little monitors that I was, but I was feeling fine. But yeah, we were just kind of resting. It was 9 p.m. when this Cervidil fell out, so it's like kind of bedtime anyway. So, Jon, poor Jon. Like those uncomfortable partner beds they have, like the little pullout couch thing. He was just, like, curled up in the fetal position, just, asleep, you know, like I would be like, Hey, I'm going to go to the bathroom. And he would like, wake up kind of and then just be like, okay, like, let me know if you need me. And then, like, little, I'd come back out 2 minutes later and he'd be just fast asleep, like dreaming, you know? So, yeah, it was kind of funny. It, like, really helped me. I mean, I, like, felt like I could rest in between contractions. Once the contractions started happening, I let Jon sleep for the first couple of hours because I was able to manage it on my own. But I was able to, I think, like, fall asleep in between. They were like 4 minutes apart or so. So I would kind of rest in between with, like, the peanut ball in between my legs and stuff. So.

Kiona: 23:33

Yeah. And, Jon, how do you feel about how that aide helped you out?

Jonathan: 23:39

I would not recommend this to any birthing partners at all around the time that maybe baby is going to come because, she's in full blown labor, wakes me up and like, Hey, I need some help now. I need some support. You're on my team, like, wake up now, you know. But she was very gentle about, of course. But during the contractions, we did what we practiced. We did acupressure points, which I did a lot on kind of her lower back, kind of like during the contraction.And the contraction would last for a minute, a minute and a half. And then in between, I would be sitting on the little swivel chair that's just rolling in the hospital with my head down on the hospital bed and just, trying not to fall asleep. And I was praying like, Lord, please do not let me fall asleep during the labor of our first child. And like leaving Carly alone. And then, you know, 4 a.m. hit. And we had been doing this thing and it was like back and forth. My prayer just changed to Lord. Fall asleep. Don't let.

Carly: 24:50

And I didn't know it. I didn't notice. So it

Jonathan: 24:53

My

Carly: 24:53

worked.

Jonathan: 24:53

prayers

Kiona: 24:53

That

Jonathan: 24:54

were answered.

Kiona: 24:54

is so funny.

Carly: 24:56

He like, confessed to me three days later. He was like, Did you know that I was sleeping? I was like, No.

Kiona: 25:01

Yeah. You were so focused. You were probably just so focused on doing your own thing.

Carly: 25:04

I was so in the zone. Yeah.

Kiona: 25:07

Oh, man. Okay, so you guys are working through this sleeping aid. Labor is progressing. Birth is imminent. What is happening? How are you feeling, Carly? At what point did you know Kinsley is coming out?

Carly: 25:21

I felt like all of our coping mechanisms we had practice the birth affirmations. Jon would repeat the same affirmation for that whole contraction. So it was like just my mantra going through my head, like my most important thing to me, I knew going into labour was just keep my positive mindset. We're both runners. We love like going on runs together. And so I kind of approach to I as like training for like a marathon, running is so mental and so it's like, I know my body can run this marathon. I've been training for it, I've been practicing, but like, how is my headspace going to be on race day? You know, do I want to be the entire race fighting my mind or do I want it to be like helping me, you know? So I knew it was super important for me to have Jon, repeating those positive affirmations. So he would pick one affirmation and he would like say that over and over and over the whole contraction. Then he would switch to another one. And it was just so helpful to, like, maintain our positive birth space that we had created. the nurses were also awesome. They kept the lights low for us. And I mentioned I said like, Hey, I'm trying to do unmedicated. I don't know what's going to happen, but like, that's what I'm trying. So I said like if you could please not offer the epidural, I'll ask for it if I want it, but maybe just don't offer it, because I knew that if someone offered it in the middle of a contraction or something, I maybe would take it and regret that. Maybe. And they respected that. They didn't ever offer it. they like, were really, like, respectful, maintaining our peaceful environment. Sometimes I would be so in the zone that they would ask me a question and I, wasn't answering. And Jon would have to be my advocate and my voice in that moment. I think the hardest part looking back was transition when I was about eight centimeters and it was so much more intense like ramping up and also just the negative that started creeping in like, Oh, this is harder than I thought. You know, this isn't fun anymore. Like, I don't know if I can do this. It's like those thoughts that are almost like a flag waving to you, like you're in transition. You're so close, you're already at eight centimeters. You only have two more to go. So I was like, okay, like, I've already run eight miles. Like I knew two more miles. You know, I can make it to that ten centimeters. but that hour that it took me to go from 8 to 10 was the hardest because felt something coming out. So I reached down and it felt like a water balloon was coming out. And it was my bag of water because it still hadn't broke yet. It was my bag of water kind of coming out of my vagina. And so push the nurse button like something's happening. And they were like, okay, like you're still at an eight, though. So like, try to resist the urge to push. So that was the hardest hour. It was like up until then I was going with my body and listening to my body and relaxing with my body and almost like welcoming the contraction. Like, okay, a contraction is coming. this contraction is going to bring me closer to my baby and like embracing the contraction and relaxing through it where now I'm told I shouldn't be pushing but my body is wanting to push. I felt like I had to tense my body and almost fight my body. What it was trying to do. looking back, I kind of wish we would have tried like a different position or, you know, maybe if I had a doula, they would have said, okay, let's get you in this position or let's try this comfort measure. I feel like I needed maybe a little something different in that moment. we kind of suffered through that hour. And then I finally, pushed a little bit with the one contraction and my water just broke all over the peanut ball just sprayed everywhere, and it dilated me to a ten I think she just descended and was like right there. And so then I was at a ten and ready to push.

Kiona: 28:56

Oh, yes. Oh, my gosh. Okay. The whole time that you're talking about this, like fighting yourself to not listen to your body, that is such a challenging time. It is so incredibly hard. And those that are listening that have been through it, oh, my gosh, you know the feeling and to be told. Don't push it. You're like, Oh, my God. Like, how can I not push, you know? And so, Jon, during that last hour of when she's doing this transition and fighting kind of against herself, how are you supporting her in that moment?

Jonathan: 29:32

Yeah. I'll liken it back to what Carly was mentioning. It's like cheering on someone who's running a marathon because maybe you've watched them train for those nine months before or year before or those nine months of that pregnancy, and maybe even gone on some training runs with them during that pregnancy. But when labor hits, you have to realize that they are running that race on their own and you have to be the one deciding as the birthing partner, are you going to be the one who's present cheering them on, like along the way, going to like every stop that you can keep cheering them on? Are you only going to be there for like the finish line? so despite me trying to fight off my sleeping aid, I was able to fight it off. I willed it through. But just being present with her during that time was very important. But honestly, the labor for Kinsley, Carly just showed this incredible resilience. And it was very peaceful, even though there was this kind of inner fight that she was going through from the outside, she was just so calm, so peaceful, and I think she was just in this headspace in the zone that she had been preparing for, preparing for that marathon with good training before. So it was incredible experiencing that and observing it.

Kiona: 30:53

Ooh, gosh, that is so cool, let's move on to the moment where you're birthing Kinsley and they tell you you can push like, what's going through your head now, Carly?

Carly: 31:02

one of the best moments of my life. we had a peaceful, quiet room and now there's 20 people in here with lights on. And it did like shift a little bit. The NICU team was there just because her heart was doing some funny things and my midwife was there, I think like three or four nurses and then maybe even the pediatrician and the like baby nurse team was there. So just felt like all of a sudden, okay, this is happening. You know, our favorite moment was we had a worship playlist going the whole labor that I had picked out each song and it was on shuffle, so was just random order. And literally the song that came on right before I started pushing was You make Me Brave by Lauren Daigle. And it was like the perfect song I needed, like You Make Me Brave, And it talks about going out among this storm in the waves of the ocean. And I had been picturing, though, contractions like waves. So it just was so full circle for me. So I actually started singing it like while everyone was getting prepped, Like I wasn't pushing it. And I just kind of started singing along and Jon started singing along and then our midwives started singing along. So I'm trying not to cry. So there's just like a moment of, like, worship and like reverence of the moment, just thinking like, wow, like we're about to meet our baby and like, G has gotten us through this, subchorionic hemorrhage and just the nine months of pregnancy and then this crazy labor, experience. And here we are. We're like, we're so close to meeting our baby. it was funny during pushing. They actually told me that there is two other women pushing at the same time. I don't know if that was true or not, or they just knew that that would help me. You know, motivate me. I was like, I'm going to win, you know? I think it took about 35 minutes of pushing for her to be born. So Jon actually got to catch, which was fun. So he actually wasn't up by my head. He was actually down by my feet, like with gloves on, ready to catch Kinsley when she came out.

Kiona: 32:57

Oh, I love that. Okay, Jon, you have to tell us about that experience. How was that for you?

Jonathan: 33:02

Well, the midwife was like, Oh, y a medical student. Have you had your ob gyn rotation yet? And I was like, Oh, no, not yet. She's like, Well, you're definitely catching. And I was like, Okay. That sounds good. So, you know, Carly is doing amazing. She's pushing from her side and she birth Kinsley while laying, I think, on her right side. But, I was able to catch baby as she came out. it was very fast. It wasn't like head and shoulders like head and shoulders after one big push. at that time, I caught baby. And then the midwife just like, takes the umbilical cord that's wrapped around Kinsley's neck and starts unraveling it. And it was wrapped around. So it's a is called a five time nuchal cord. that was the reason why she was having these variable and late decelerations with her heart rate because she was having, you know, so many times wrapped around what the court It was a long cord. And then she kind of got a little medical on me. The midwife, and was like, okay, Dad, you got to cut the cord. she like unwrapped really fast and like, we got to cut it because we got to get the baby over to the little station to make sure that she's doing okay, because we put Kinsley right on to Carly's chest right after. But we needed to cut the cord and get her over just to check her out just because of those late accelerations, they wanted to make sure that she didn't need to be further checked on.

Kiona: 34:27

Man five time nuchal cord. as soon as you said that, I said that's what was causing the deceleration. Like, that's what it was. Because when she's descending, going through your pelvis, she's like cutting off her own circulation. So. Oh, gosh, yeah. That is so amazing. And I love that the midwife was automatically like, Right, Jon, you're in here. It's it's time to start your guide rotation.

Jonathan: 34:49

Yeah.

Kiona: 34:50

Like, this is the start. Oh, I love that so much. And so in that moment at all, when you realize that the cord was wrapped around five times, did you have any sense of panic in you at all? And Carly, did you know that it was wrapped five times?

Carly: 35:06

So she like. Right away. All the other signs were good, when she went over to the Nike staff and they cleared her. I didn't really have any moment of panic, really. I just kind of was trusting like, baby's here, she cried. Her coloring is good. Her Apgar score was good. Jon was right there with them as they were checking her out. I was just kind of in that trust of like, okay, I think she's in good hands. And also, just the oxytocin and adrenaline was still happening. So I was just kind of out of it, like what just happened, m first baby is here. So looking back, I just all positive memories around that moment.

Kiona: 35:42

Beautiful. And then, Jon, did you have any sense of panic?

Jonathan: 35:46

I honestly did not have time to realize what was happening. It was the classic medical student. Like, I don't know what's going on right now type of thing. And it's like bad experience that you get you learn a lot from. knew you could have, nuchal, but I didn't realize that a five time new girl would, be the reason or everything. So, she just was very quick, just unwrapping very quickly so I didn't have time to panic or time to even really react to what was exactly going on. But.

Kiona: 36:20

That makes sense, you know, bec it was your first go round and just be in there and be like, okay, yeah, that's what preceptors are for, right? That's why you have the provider that you're being trained by and stuff like that.

Jonathan: 36:32

Exactly. See what hurts. See when you learn one. See when.

Kiona: 36:40

Yes, I think it's, learn one, see one, do one, teach one.

Jonathan: 36:44

Yes. Yes, exactly.

Kiona: 36:46

Mm hmm.Yeah . Awesome. Yes. So. Baby Kinsley is here. what does immediate postpartum look like for you guys when it comes to baby being fine, starting breastfeeding and things like that?

Carly: 36:59

Yeah. So even though we were living out of state, away from family, my mom had driven down through the night like the moment we texted her, Hey, we're getting in. Do she, like, drove through the night from Colorado and New Mexico, and then she was like, speed, stress cleaning our entire house while we were at the hospital. Just, like, so excited to meet her first grandbaby. my parents came out, I think, for two weeks, which was so fun to have them there. And it was their first grandbaby. So just lots of snuggles and breastfeeding happened great. Like right away everything was going great, like she was gaining weight. my recovery was great. After my parents left, Jon's parents came down for a week and that was so fun. So we still felt really supported by our community of friends and family. Poor Jon only got four days off of med school for his paternity leave. But we back that up to a weekend, so he got six days off total. But that's just kind of we kind of knew we're having a baby during med school. This is kind of what it's going to look like. But luckily, we had a great community established, so.

Kiona: 38:00

Awesome. And so Did either of you have any concerns at all about postpartum mood disorders, anxieties, or depressions?

Carly: 38:09

we've had close friends and family go through that. So luckily we've had a lot of open communication beforehand, for me. Like, you know, I had friends and family tell me like, don't be afraid to tell Jon if you're feeling these things or if you're thinking these things. So I think both of us went into it pretty prepared on what are the signs, What should we be looking for, when do we need to seek help, and what would that help look like? I think we kind of had a plan in place, but luckily we both, were fine and didn't end up needing any extra support, in relation to that.

Kiona: 38:38

Jon, how feel once you had to go back to school?

Jonathan: 38:43

Well pregnancy and then intrapartum and then postpartum all was, I think, pretty challenging. Overall being in medical school and then being in residency for a second. Just because I physically wasn't there for too much So I think that made things very challenging in a way for both me basically not being able to be with baby, but also not being able to be there to support Carly as much as I would want to, but also the depression that I've dealt with myself, that I've dealt with the majority of my adult life, crept in both before and after Both girls. And so dealing with that depression I could do it one of two ways. And one way is retreating and reclusive. And the kind of silently suffering in it. But the way that I have kind of now shifted to is being open and authentic about my depression and the things that I deal with. So that way I can get the help and support that I need. It's like when you shed light on something that is actually going on and you can be truthful about it. It kind of takes that power of that darkness away when you're able to actually bring something in.

Kiona: 40:05

Yeah. Yeah.

Jonathan: 40:07

So that's something that we're continually dealing with, you know, my depression, but I'm I'm in a good spot right now and there's definitely been some ups and downs and some days were debilitating. And I think it bled into that ability to being able to support my wife. And I think she also kind of suffered a little bit from that.

Kiona: 40:27

Yeah. thank you for sharing that, because I think it's so important to know from people on the outside, there's two people involved in parenting, right? And it's not only the birthing person that suffers with depression, it doesn't even have to be related to the pregnancy or anything at all. You know, it's like life. You're in med school, which is it's freaking stretching you as thin as you could be stretched anyway. In addition to growing a family and learning how to be there and struggling with like, I need to learn how to, like, do all these things in med school. But I also need to be present with my family and my wife like that. You getting stretched thin, so understanding that depression is something that definitely needs to be talked about and has to have that light shined on it in order to be pulled out of that as much as possible from anybody that's experiencing it. So I love to hear that you guys had a really strong support network and that you were able to shine some light on that to get some support that you needed as well. So let's talk about Raylan. So at what point did you guys decide that? All right, time for baby number two. Was she a surprise or was she planned?

Carly: 41:43

So she was planned. Both Kinsley and Raylene were planned. I had my ovulation tracker app and all the things we did want them close in age. We both grew up with siblings, close in age, and it was so fun to just have, little best friends built in to our siblings. And so we didn't know how long it would take. So we started trying and we got pregnant sooner than we thought. So they ended up being 22 months apart and it's just been so fun. They are becoming best friends. They play together. It's just so fun, like watching their relationship grow. So it was really fun. Timing wise. The age gap was a little rough at the beginning when it was a newborn and a not even yet two year old. now it's like really fun. They're three and almost two, so they're like a really fun age right now.

Kiona: 42:28

Yeah, love that. And so, Jon, when he found out that you guys did the thing and conceived again, like, how are you feeling?

Jonathan: 42:35

I was.

Carly: 42:40

Always tired.

Kiona: 42:41

Yes. Yes.

Jonathan: 42:42

Yeah, I'm just chronically tired. I actually couldn't figure it out. Like What is it? What's going on? with this tiredness is it just one thing or another? But it wasn't just that I was in residency. It wasn't just being a dad and then expecting number two. But I also found out that I had sleep apnea as well, so. So that on top of everything. Yeah, kind of a funny thing. It was like central sleep apnea, which is like where your brain, like, turns off, you're breathing during sleep, which is like, Oh, okay. But anyways, Super excited about baby number two, and I think I was secretly hoping it would be a little girl so I could be a girl, Dad, you know, just because we have two huskies that are girls. So I'm like inundated.

Kiona: 43:28

Yeah. You're overrun. Yeah.

Jonathan: 43:31

Yeah, definitely overrun, so super excited about that.

Kiona: 43:35

Sorry to hear about sleep apnea. That really sucks, actually. Really bad. Hopefully you've gotten some help with that since. Yes.

Carly: 43:44

Yes.

Kiona: 43:45

Okay, Good. Good. How is your pregnancy this time? Because you also said you had sub chorionic hemorrhage with Raelyn as well. Did you find out around this?

Carly: 43:56

she was 11 weeks, so she was a little further along. So I wasn't put on bed rest. But I do think I took off my next work trip or something. I actually started bleeding at work, so that was really scary. Being in a different city away from home. Waking up to all this blood in the hotel and then having to work three flights. Luckily, it was my last day at work, so I did have to work three flights to get home. I landed from the airport and Jon met me in the E.R., I think at like 11 p.m. or something. It was like when we finally got to the E.R. that night and they were like, Yep, you do have a sub chronic hemorrhage, but baby's doing great. the baby's moving around a ton. Like, her heart rate's great, you know, baby's looking really good. because we had kind of gone through this with Kinsley, my midwife was like, Yeah, like, you might just be someone that maybe you can just expect this might happen with all of your pregnancies. So. It felt like not as scary as Kinsley. Still, of course, we were praying and stuff for her safety and that everything would go well. And luckily, it just kind of slowed down Other than that, it was a great pregnancy. I just felt way more tired, I think, because I was chasing around a, 18 month old at the time. So I just felt so much more tired. I was like, I think this is the most had ever been in my entire life, But yeah, it was a great pregnancy. I really enjoyed it.

Kiona: 45:14

Good, I'm happy to hear that. And I'm happy to hear that it wasn't as scary, even though it was a similar situation, because you had been through it before and you kind of had that reassurance from your provider saying this, might be your thing. Jon, when you went to the E.R. and heard those things about Raylan's pregnancy, that it was also sub chorionic. What was going through your mind? Was it similar to Carly?

Jonathan: 45:34

I think there's a little more reassurance. Kinsley was a miracle baby with some chorionic hemorrhage. And so we're just praying that, Raelyn would also be a miracle as well. We had gone through the experience before and so we kind of knew what to expect.

Kiona: 45:50

And so, Carly, did you continue to work after that throughout your pregnancy?

Carly: 45:55

Yeah, I worked up until, I think, 24 weeks. So I was like, the little flight attendant with, like, the baby bump just barking into people as I'm trying to walk down the aisle.

Kiona: 46:04

Right. funny.

Carly: 46:07

It was really fun. I took a lot of photos and like in her pregnancy journal, I wrote, like, you've been to Mexico and you know, all these places in my tummy, you know, like, you're like my little travel buddy. And I would just, like, feel her kicking while I'm flying. And I think I was like, Oh, I think you're going to be like a little jetsetter, you know? I think you're going to be a little traveler, so.

Kiona: 46:25

That's. That' really cute. That's really, really cute. did you guys prepare for the birth of Raelynn differently than you did with Kinsley? Because in your guest request form, you said that you had planned to have a birth center birth.

Carly: 46:39

Yeah. So kind of like looking back at it as like the marathon analogy. It's like, I knew I'm running another marathon when I'm going to be having this baby, so I'm going to train even though I've already done it before. I'm still going to take the time to train physically and mentally and, you know, prepare. We moved back to Colorado, so we were closer to family and had more support there. And I found this birth center that is two miles from a hospital. And I toured it and I felt like shivers, like I felt goosebumps. I was like, wow. you can give birth in this amazing. It looks like a hotel room with a king sized bed and a huge tub. And cute decorations and all the things and like, yes, they did have all the medical supplies, but like in the dresser. So, like, they were there in the room, but they just weren't out, beeping at you the whole time. I just felt like I walked into those rooms and I was like, this just feels like a peaceful, calm place that is also, a space where I could be supported medically if needed. So now I just had to convince Jon that this was an option for us for birth, because him coming from being in medical school and now at this point, he was in residency as a doctor, he's most comfortable in the hospital. And so I was okay, I need to see if Jon would be comfortable with this because I really wanted us to give birth in a space where we're both comfortable.

Kiona: 48:01

All right, Jon, your turn. What was going through your mind?

Jonathan: 48:04

Well, I think my eyes were definitely opened a lot in medical school because I worked primarily with nurse midwives, with vaginal births. Right. I did work with some OBGYNs, but I usually would, assist them with caesareans if it was the ob gyn. So I learned quickly that midwives are completely trained in everything birth, Especially that of uncomplicated birth. And they can, manage certain complications that come along as well. So to know that the birth center had, certified nurse midwives who were kind of running the practice and then they were just 2 minutes away from a hospital if they needed to transfer. But just going to the appointments with Carly, learning about kind of what they do. everything was evidence based in what they were doing. I was very reassured and comfortable with that. And given, Carly's rock star first birth of being able to do it unmedicated, I felt very reassured that, she'd be able to do it fine again. so that's kind of where we were totally on the same page about doing a birth center together.

Kiona: 49:11

Okay. So at the standalone birth center, they were certified nurse wooden wives, but not certified professional midwives. So they were nurses.

Jonathan: 49:18

They were certified nurse midwives.

Kiona: 49:22

Okay, cool, cool. Yeah. That's one thing that I love about the CNN credential is you can do both in hospital and out of hospital births and certified professional midwives as primarily out of hospital. So I think that's really cool that you have that option. Now, even though this place was totally amazing and you really loved what it looks like and envisioning your birth being there, that's not what happened. So. Tell me and.

Carly: 49:49

yes, it was funny because the midwives were great with Jon, like they like, did an extra appointment with him just to go over their medical procedures and what medical things they did have on staff and like showed him the dresser with all the medical things. But we did kind of say, Jon was like, I'm not comfortable with a homebirth at this point and I'm not comfortable with a water birth because they did have these nice big tubs. But Jon was just still hesitant about like a water birth. So like our plan that we had communicated with the midwives was we were going to labour there and I could labour in the tub. But then when it came time to push, I was going to get out and push out of the water. So that was our whole plan. for me, mentally, I was preparing to go past my due date because I went past my due date with my first. So it was just a normal day in February. It was actually my mom's birthday. So we were planning on meeting up with her for dinner that night. And we did have like the bag packed in the car seat in the car. We did have all the things ready, but I was, still picturing two weeks out. I was 39 and two days, I think. So Like, I still was picturing two more weeks, Kinsley and I went on a long walk. We were having a great day. I tried to lay down during her nap time and was feeling some like, cramps. And I was like, I don't know, cause I never went into labour. Naturally, I was induced with Kinsley, so I was like, I think I'm just having cramps. And like, I was really looking forward to birthday dinner with my mom at the restaurant. So I got in the shower and usually the shower would stop. The cramps are like standing up, would stop the cramping. And it didn't say I texted Jon, who is at work in downtown Denver, and was like, Hey, like, I think I'm having cramps, you know, just giving you a heads up. I texted my mom and about 40 minutes later I was eating lunch with Kinsley and it was ramping up. And I was like, I actually don't know if I can drive right now. You know, like during these cramps, they kept calling them cramps. They were like 7 minutes apart. So I was still thinking like, this might just be Braxton Hicks. Like, you know, I'm not sure. Thankfully, Jon did come home, right away. And then my mom actually drove up to meet me to help me get like the kids and the dogs in the car and everything. Our plan was to drive down to Colorado Springs, which is a 45 minute drive drop off Kinsley and the dogs, and then headed the burn center. We ended up waiting for Jon to get home so we could all drive down together. So at this point, it had been like an hour since like my first cramp where I texted everyone and we drive down the 45 minute drive, longest drive of my life. I don't love laboring in the car. That's not my favorite. It just wasn't comfortable. Like no position I was in. I was in the passenger seat and I was just like, this is not great. I don't love this. But I was still kind of in denial that I was maybe in labor. So we got to Jon's parent's house to drop off. Kinsley And my contractions were still like no consistent, but they were lasting a minute, And so we drop off Kinsley And I'm like, yeah, so she already had dinner. Here's her, overnight bag all the things. And I was, you know, like bubbly and preppy, like, I don't know, optimistic and positive. And they were just like, are you in labor? Like, we don't know. And Jon's like, I don't know, you know, and I would have like a contraction, like lean over on their stairwell and be like, okay, let me just get through this and then be like, okay, anyway, so we'll see you maybe tomorrow. I don't know. We ended up sending the midwife a screenshot of my contraction app that was like tracking everything. And she was like, Yeah, like they're not consistent. You know, I think you're just in early labor. If you want to maybe go home and get in the tub or something and relax. And I was like, Oh, that is exactly what I want, because that's what I've always wanted. I've always wanted a labor at home and I've never gotten to just like labor at home, like all those, videos you see on Instagram and YouTube and stuff of like amazing births where they're like laboring at home in the tub. So I go to my parents house, which is like a five minute drive from Jon's parent's house, but still a 15 minute drive from the birth center. And my mom, like drew this amazing bath with candles. And I had my playlist going and Jon was there and I had my birth affirmation cards. I had my comb that I was squeezing. And it was just like I remember looking around and being like, Oh, like, this is nice. They have like a fireplace in their room going for me. And it was just like a cold, winter Colorado day. It was just perfect. I was like, This is what I always wanted. And my dad was like in the living room, just kind of like, Oh, not sure what to do, but my mom was in. There was her birthday. I'm still kind of thinking we might be going to birthday dinner, hopefully, because I was hungry. I wasn't even wearing, like, my labor outfit I had picked out. I was still, like wearing my birthday dinner outfit that was like on the ground because I had put my swimsuit on. So kind of in denial that we weren't going to get to at a birthday dinner anymore. But then finally, like I hit Transition, where I had those thoughts of like, this isn't fun anymore. I think we should go. Like, it's getting more intense. You know, I'm not as upbeat in the moment. And I think Jon could tell I shifted to he called the midwife and was like, hey, like we're going to start heading over. You know, she's okay. We're ready for you like we are will be waiting at the door. Your room is ready. We're ready for you to come. And at this point, my contractions were 4 minutes apart. So when I was looking back on my birth with Kinsley, thinking, Oh, like my contractions were a minute apart for, like, 4 hours. So I'm still thinking I have, maybe 5 hours to go, maybe all night. It was like 8 p.m. at this point. And it all started at 5 p.m. or so. So it had it was going really fast. And I remember saying, okay, just give me one more contraction and then I'll get out of the tub and get dressed and we'll go. So my mom goes to tell my dad, Hey, go warm up the car, you know? So my dad goes and warms up the car. He's all excited and that next contraction, my water brakes. And I was like, kneeling in my parents tub, like leaning over the side, holding on to Jon. And I felt like a water balloon had burst under my legs and just like, slapped my legs. And I looked at Jon and we made eye contact and I was like, Jon, the baby's coming, bu my water just broke. The baby's coming right now. And like, for me, that was my only moment of panic and fear that happened during that birth because it was like. The baby's coming. We're not at the birth center. I'm in my parents bathtub right now. And this is not our birth plan. Like, Jon doesn't have his medical bag. You know, we have no medical support right now other than his stethoscope. We had a stethoscope, but that was it. And so I had this moment of panic where I was super fearful. And I just remember in that moment, like Jon grabbed my hands and made eye contact with me and was like, Kaka, you are safe, baby. Be safe. Like, God is here with us and we're going to have a baby. And I was like, okay. And I don't know if it was just like his Dr. Calmness coming on or if it was like his intuition as my husband, like knowing I needed that in that moment of him being the strong one in that moment for me. But my mom, my mom comes back into the room like, Hey, the car is warm, and Jon just hands her the phone with it already recording and is like, The baby's coming. The baby's. So my mom is like filming. So she is filming the entire thing. And the next contraction, her head is out and I reach down and feel her head and I, like, reclined in the tub so Jon can check. There's no nuchal cord, no umbilical cord around her neck. and then I felt like we should wait for that next contraction to push her body out. So, like, in the video, you can just see her head and you can just hear my mom silently crying behind the camera. And it was the longest minute of all of our lives, just like her head's underwater. And, you know, we're waiting for the next contraction. And the next contraction, her shoulders, you can, like, totally see her head twist. And then she, like, rotates and her shoulders pop out and Jon caught her and placed her on my chest and she cried right away. And, great coloring, like all the things. Everything went so smoothly. it was like a dream birth, ended up being three and a half hours total. it was just an amazing moment. And we're all three of us. My mom and Jon and I are just crying, looking at each other like what just happened. And I cannot believe that just happened. And then we realized we still don't know the gender, like we still don't know the sex of the baby. So Jon, like, lifted her a little leg. It was like, it's a girl. We all just cry again. And my dad's like, in the living room, just like pacing and like listening outside the door, like, what's happening in there? And my mom comes out and it's like, your grandbabies in our tub. And my dad's like, What? So then my dad comes in and it's just like this emotional, amazing memory that I will cherish forever. so it was just kind of funny looking back, because those are the two things Jon said he was not comfortable with was a homebirth or a water birth, and we ended up having both unexpectedly.

Kiona: 58:32

Oh, my gosh. Okay, Jon, I need to hear your thoughts during this process.

Jonathan: 58:38

yes, so she shared the whole story, which is great. I couldn't have done it better. But I was unprepared because it had been a little while since I had been the birth partner. And I was trying to give her some birth affirmations like off the top of my head. And I did really good. The first one, like women all over the world, are giving birth at the same time and just repeating that. And that was like very comforting for her. And I was like, Let me think. And I was like, Oh, okay. Because our Huskey had just given birth like, like a month before. And so I was like, be like Sequoyah, be like Sequoyah and.

Carly: 59:19

Because Sequoia had. Because Sequoia had an unmedicated six puppy. Labor. Incredible labor. Her labor

Jonathan: 59:25

And

Carly: 59:25

was amazing.

Jonathan: 59:26

she was very peaceful during the whole thing. So I was trying to like, you know, and Carly was like, I don't like that one. I don't do that. And so I was like, okay. So I tried like a different one. And Carly was like, I don't like that one either. And I was like, Okay. And I was like, Men all over the world are saying the wrong things to other wives at this time. It's just like she's like, I really hate that one. I don't want to be thinking about other men.

Carly: 59:55

So then he finally found the birth affirmation cards in the go bag. And I was like, These are the cards we practice. Like, these are the cards they want you to say.

Jonathan: 1:00:04

So I was able to get into a rhythm in helping her with some better birth affirmation. But, in that moment that Carly's freaking out, I was also freaking out on the inside because I felt completely unprepared medically, because I had nothing except for my useless stethoscope. Right. And so just with as much reassurance as I can muster, I just think, are they like here? You're here. We got this. We've got everything that we need, and we're going to have a baby. And it it was, you know, really amazing. So the two things I didn't want was the home birth. And that under water. Birth. I got both of them, but it went beautifully for Raelynn. And it was a kind a fun experience for both of us. But then there is like the question of like, yo know, after Raelynn's out, it's like the midwives, like, calls us and they're like, Where are you? Are you almost here? Like, no baby decided to come early. then she kind of talked me through some things because I kind of had turned off my medical mind or whatever. I was like, Oh yeah, we have the afterbirth, right? So we have to birth, the placenta. And she's like, Well, you could either just kind of wrap a towel and come in maybe along the way or here. But we decided to just do it in the tub and then. Placenta came out and we're able to put it in the standard plastic throw a bowl that every family has. Right. So that's what we put the placenta in. And then I wasn't going to like cut the cord with the kitchen shears. I was like, I'm just going to wait. So we just waited. Got Carly in the car. Carly was holding Raelynn placenta bowl at the same time. And we just drove to the birth center and got Raelynn checked out, of able to take a little bit of time to rest. Carly did get to have a postpartum bath in that nice bathtub. after baby was born and then we got like our vaccinations and vitamin K shot and everything at the birth center. So it all worked out very well.

Kiona: 1:02:12

All right, friends. So Jon and Carly have given us the wonderful opportunity and privilege to join them in their unplanned, unassisted home birth. At the beginning of this audio was the exact moment that Jon handed his mother in law the phone. And you will hear how quickly Raelynn was truly ready to make her arrival. You will also hear the excitement of finding out that Raelynn is a girl. Bear with me as the audio of this video is a little bit uneven and there are some silent periods where they're waiting for contractions. All right, here we go.

Birth Video Audio: 1:02:50

Oh. Oh Oh oui, oui, oui, oui, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, Wait until the next one, oh, oh. Wait 'til the next one, wait. don't touch me, don't touch me Jon, oh, oh, no, no no, give me a sec. it's okay. It's okay ow, ow ow, Jon please wait please wait, b. no, its okay its okay, awww here it comes. Jon, let go of me, I need to lay back. Baby's okay in Jesus name. Jon. You got this, you got this. Here it comes. oh, Baby! Look who's here. Look who's here, Hi baby! oh, oh, oh, It's a littel girl. It's a girl! It's a girl! Hi baby! Hi sweetheart.

Kiona: 1:06:00

As you could hear during this unexpected situation, Jon and Carly were an amazing team. And baby Raelynn cried as soon as she was born. All right. Let's get back to the story from the parents themselves.

Carly: 1:06:14

Also really cute at the birth center the theory is like during labor they bake bread for you so they like you can smell the bread baking while you're laboring. And then like after your baby's born, they bring it to you with like fresh butter and you like, enjoy like warm bread with butter. So they like, did bring me my bread even though it was like, you know, I didn't get to, like, go to the whole labor there. They, like, still brought me my, bread after which was then.

Kiona: 1:06:36

I think that is so cute. That's such a kind

Carly: 1:06:38

Yeah.

Kiona: 1:06:39

and endearing and caring gesture. I think that is so, so awesome. Kind of like being there to help provide your first kind of meal, I think that's good. Oh, man. So that is a lot. And that's beautiful, Jon, that you were able to kind of, like, click into that provider mode for a second, and just like reassure Carly, this is going to be fine. You And my first question that came to my mind was, did Raelynn have any nuchal cord action going on?

Jonathan: 1:07:08

No nucla cord for her. Nope.

Kiona: 1:07:10

That's good. When you got to the burn center, what were the things that happened? Carly So did you get checked out to make sure that you were all intact and everything? And then Raelyn got her newborn exam.

Carly: 1:07:22

Yeah. So they did Raylan's newborn exam. they weighed her, measured her. Did the shots like Jon was saying. And then they checked out the placenta to make sure the placenta was all intact and everything. And then I did have a first degree tear, so they just glued that for me and then we just rested for a little bit. So it was really, really nice.

Kiona: 1:07:43

That sounds beautiful. That sounds so beautiful, man. And. not fully opposite, but so different from your birth with Kinsley like environment when it comes to even who was present when the birth was happening, like with Kinsley, you had like 20 people. And with Ray Allen, it was just you two and your mom.

Carly: 1:08:03

Yeah. And it was so fun because it's on my mom's birthday,

Kiona: 1:08:06

yeah.

Carly: 1:08:06

So now they like our little birthday buddies.

Kiona: 1:08:08

Yeah. That's so awesome.

Carly: 1:08:10

in the video it's kind of funny because I watch all these birth videos of like calm mamas, pushing out their babies. And for me it was like I just had to scream. And I don't know if I was letting the fear out in that moment, the fear of this is not a birth plan and I'm in my parents bathtub and my dad is right outside the door. And like all the things I was thinking in that moment was just kind of funny to like, look back on that video and be like, Oh, like it was pretty primal for me when I was pushing her out. I really think it was like the fetal ejection reflex, because if I could have waited, I would have to make it to the birth center. But my body was doing this and there was kind of nothing I could do to stop it. So I think my reaction was just so primal, like Scream that is in the birth video.

Kiona: 1:08:50

No, I love that. I love that so much. I love it so much. during your postpartum time with Raelynn, how was it for you? Because, Jon, you said you still experience a little bit of some depression after both of the girls. And so what did that look like that time? Because you were still hard core in residency.

Jonathan: 1:09:10

Yeah. Sleep deprived, like always. But then, some of the most precious memories come from those first few days of having little baby there and just being able to help Raelynn and Kinsley to transition to our kind of cold, vast world. is is really a joy. And that night that we brought Raelynn home because we were only there at the birth center for 4 hours, a then they were like, okay, discharge, go home Raelynn had a lot of respiratory secretions, I think because the labor is so fast. And so, I was kind of patting her back and trying to help her with those secretions, and she was able to manage very well. But it was kind of an all night thing. But really one of the things is that your perspective on life and what matters and this change of no longer are you just thinking about yourself and your spouse, but you have this little human, fragile baby that you're taking care of. It's just What is important? Changes dramatically and you kind of get this perspective, the zone out perspective of no I don't need to, be wallowing in my depression when I can be, snuggling this little baby or work is work and home life is really all that matters. And so those are just some of the perspectives that kind of changed, you know?

Kiona: 1:10:44

Yeah. And do you think that you had that perspective with Raelynn versus right away with Kinsley because you were there doing the whole process like you were the one that, was the safety person, the rock in that moment to bring her safely into this world?

Jonathan: 1:11:00

I don't know. I feel like sometimes people who aid in the delivery process are maybe given almost too much credit in a way, because you're really just supporting the mom in this natural process. really, I'm just humbled by the whole birth experience and just being able to watch Carly, do it on her own and how Raelyn was able to just do very well. And in general, that's how births go. But, there's the other side of things that, births go a completely different direction. And so we were just very blessed and humbled we had a healthy birth and a healthy baby from that.

Kiona: 1:11:40

And, Carly, how were you emotionally postpartum after Raelynn.

Carly: 1:11:44

I felt like of my absolute favorite memories of my entire life was them meeting like Kinsley and Raelynn meeting for the first time. And I remember seeing Kinsley walk in the door and I was like, You're huge. Like, you look so big because I've been snuggling this little baby for the last 12 hours and you're so big all of a sudden. And so I just, like, lost it. I just cried. And they were so cute. Like, Kinsley was so tender and, like, gentle with Raelynn and wanted to kiss their little nose and count her toes. And it was just everything I'd ever pictured of, like a sibling meeting their lifelong best friend. It was just the best. Like one of my favorite moments physically, my recovery was so much better. I don't know why, but like, maybe just I knew what was going to happen physically, with recovery just felt so much better. But emotionally, I feel like it was harder because Jon was in residency, so he was working his intern year. So the first year, which is kind of the hardest year. 80 hours a week. He got two weeks off this time, so that was nice. Longer than four days. And, we just soaked up those two weeks. But after he went back to work, it was kind of like, I'm alone in this and I have to or two. And it was just a lot like the lack of sleep We did have our family close by, which was great just to have their support. But it was just kind of different postpartum experiences, I guess.

Kiona: 1:13:03

Yeah. I am happy that it was a little tougher when your family was around because then you had someone else to lean on and it wasn't just you because that could also shift your mental state of, feeling completely alone, but knowing that you had people that you could call on that could be there in a short amount of time is really important too. And 80 hours a week. Oh, my God. That's crazy. just want to give a huge thank you to both of you for sharing your stories with me, because I'm sure that my listeners are going to love it and they're going to be able to relate to a lot of the things you guys talked about as well. So thank you for that.

Carly: 1:13:41

Thank you for having us. It's been so fun and we love sharing our stories.

Kiona: 1:13:45

Yes, of course. So I have three final closing questions for you guys. my first question is, what is one piece of advice that each of you would give to Jon? You will be giving advice to the partner. And Carly, you will be giving advice to the pregnant person on how to prepare for labor, birth or postpartum.

Carly: 1:14:07

I would say no matter if it's your first birth or your second, third, fourth birth. take that time to prepare mentally, physically. I feel like labor is 70% mental and then the rest physical and like 100% spiritual, And also setting up your birth team with people who are supportive of your birth plan is really important. S if you didn't have a great birth experience for your first, maybe hire a doula who can advocate for you and give extra support for you and your partner. Maybe find a different provider who you feel like could be supportive. So yeah, just setting up that birth team I think is really important.

Kiona: 1:14:40

Beautiful. Beautiful. Jon.

Jonathan: 1:14:42

So for the birth partner, I'd say don't just sit on the sidelines cheering from afar, but take action with how you are going to support your pregnant partner by showing initiative, like educating yourself, by participating in birthing classes, either virtually or in person. There's so many resources out there collaborating on your birth plan together and overall just being attentive and present during the labor process, because that's when they're going to need you the most during that time but everything leading up to that. show initiative in that first part so.

Kiona: 1:15:19

Yeah. Yeah, I love that. for both of you. I think both of those are really great answers. My next question is what is one resource that I can share with the listeners on your behalf? So each of you, if you have a resource that comes to mind, Jon, potentially for Partners and Cali or potentially for birthing people.

Carly: 1:15:39

So I'm really passionate about birth now just because of my experiences and how I was initially looking at labor and then what ended up happening. So because of all that, I decided to become a doula. So I'm like now in the birth realm. I've been a birth coach, coaching mamas and partners virtually for almost two and a half years now. Jon Sisters and I started a online birth education course. It's called Birth Made Mindful and we wanted to create an online birth course that's accessible. So it's online, affordable and evidence based that is for all birth plans. So we have a course that encompasses unmedicated delivery, you know, medicated delivery with an epidural or with pain management, and then also even a planned C-section or an unplanned C-section. We even talk about different birthing locations. So like if you're planning a homebirth or a hospital birth or a birth center, and then we have a whole section that we created for birth partners, it goes over tangible ways partners can support emotional ways. We even have like a little checklist about, like this stage of labour, maybe try these comfort measures, this stage of delivery, try these comfort measures. So it's been so fun just being able to coach mamas all over the country in the last two and a half years virtually, you know, supporting them. But then I kind of got the itch to do some in-person stuff. So I am, finishing my training to be an in-person doulas. I'm really excited about that. So just wanted to plug our website birthmademindful. com.And then we also just launched a podcast called The Best Birth Podcast where in honor of 40 weeks of pregnancy, we interview 40 different birth experts ranging from nutritionist to physical therapist to postpartum health specialists. OBGYNs do less. So we find 40 different experts that we interview, which has been really, r fun.

Kiona: 1:17:28

I love all of that. Yes. Yes, I love all of that. And the other people that you do that with, Sarah Ziroll. And Christina Packard and

Carly: 1:17:35

Yes.

Kiona: 1:17:36

they are your sister in law is correct.

Carly: 1:17:38

Jon. Sisters. Yup!

Kiona: 1:17:40

Love that. Yeah. So Sarah Ziroll is episode 16 of the podcast if you want to hear her story. And then Christina Packard is episode 47, if you want to hear her story. So there's that as well. And Jon, do you potentially have a resource that you'd like to share in addition?

Jonathan: 1:17:56

Yeah. It's so the resource I have is, is kind of a funny one, but it's honestly great for the birth partner and it's a it's a great endearing gift as well. It's a children's book. It's called I Was Promised a Baby by Carlos Puga. And essentially it gives the perspective from the birth partner on the birthing process, and it's hilariously written. But there's also some really good teaching points and it makes you cry by the end. So. They should check it out for sure.

Kiona: 1:18:29

Awesome. I love that. I love that so much. I'll definitely put the links in the show notes as well. And the last question that I have for both of you, and I want each of you to answer this question is if you could choose one word for each of the births, what would it be? So let's start with Kinsey's birth.

Carly: 1:18:47

So for me, Kingsley's birth in one word was sacred. I felt like just going into it as a first time, it was yes, I had prepared as much as I could, but in that moment it's like until you're in labour, you don't really know, you know, what it's like. And just in that moment of the worship that we had beforehand, like right before she was born, and just like I felt like the presence of God with us and just the intimacy in that. And it's so amazing to me that God invites us into creation with Him through pregnancy and childbirth. It's just very humbling. And I just felt like just such a sacred space. So sacred is my word for Kinsley.

Kiona: 1:19:25

Nice.

Jonathan: 1:19:27

I don't have too much of an explanation for it. But for Kinsley, I would say profound, just because it really was know, life changing and in a way that it was first birth I've been able to deliver. And then was the birth of a free child, just very profound.

Kiona: 1:19:45

Yes. Love it. Awesome. And now the word for Raylan.

Carly: 1:19:49

So for Raylan, I think we both agreed on the same word when we were kind of talking about it. But surrender, because we both had a moment of surrender where, things are not happening as we planned. Exactly. We might be having a baby in my parent's bathtub. You know, we both had that moment where we can look back on and we have that distinct moment in her birth where we had to surrender to the birth process and to my body because my body was doing this regardless if we are ready or not. And as to Raylan, because Raylan was ready, she was ready to come out. So, yeah, I just I feel like we both had a distinct moment of surrender during her birth.

Kiona: 1:20:26

And John, would you

Jonathan: 1:20:28

Yeah, I would. agree with surrender. But I'd also add on the word vivid Raelynn's birth was just the epitome of life. And that whole process happening as has for thousands of years, just. Naturally. it was just a very vivid memory. And, so many people are trying to capture realism. And I feel like that moment of birth of your child is one that is so capturing of truly what life is about. so, yeah, so I would say vivid.

Kiona: 1:21:04

Vivid and surrender. Love it so much. Oh, my gosh, you guys, I am so thankful that you shared your stories with me today. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Beautiful stories and beautiful words. And I am so excited to get this out there for you guys.

Carly: 1:21:17

Thank you. We were excited. So we're actually pregnant with our third.

Kiona: 1:21:22

Congratulate you.

Carly: 1:21:24

Yeah, we're 17 weeks, so we're like, Okay. Right. When I have my first cramp, we are heading to the burn center

Kiona: 1:21:30

Yes. Yes. That way you'll get all.

Jonathan: 1:21:34

I would say if she sneezes, we got to go to the bird center. So.

Kiona: 1:21:39

That sounds like a good plan. Oh, that's awesome. That would be so cool. Maybe I'll reach out and get a potential update later on to see how everything

Carly: 1:21:46

That'd.

Kiona: 1:21:46

went down

Carly: 1:21:46

So

Kiona: 1:21:47

for.

Carly: 1:21:47

fun. We

Kiona: 1:21:48

Yeah.

Carly: 1:21:48

would love that.

Kiona: 1:21:49

Awesome. Great. Well, thank you so much, you guys, and congratulations.

Carly: 1:21:53

Thank

Jonathan: 1:21:53

Thank you.

Carly: 1:21:53

you. It was open talking with you.

Outro: 1:22:07

For all of those who are still around listening, I want to say thank you. And also, oh, my gosh, isn't this an amazing episode? I really love how well Jonathan and Carly worked together throughout both of their birth experiences and how Jon was really supportive of Carly and how Carly really trusted her intuition and her body during the unassisted homebirth. a huge thank you again to Carly and Jonathan for sharing these stories with us, as well as inviting us into your space by providing the birth, video, audio. want to check out the show notes for this episode, you can go to birthasweknowitpodcast. com/80. Now if you remember right at the end, Carly also talks about Sarah and Christina, who are Jonathan's sisters. So they also have episodes on here and they're quite spread out. Sarah Ziroll is episode 16 and Christina Packard is episode 47 If you want to check those out, you can also go to birthasweknowitpodcast. com and select those episodes. since you've made it this far, I want to say thank you to you because it is because of you that I'm able to produce this podcast. I really appreciate all of the support you give. So if you would share this episode with a friend, leave a review or you can join the page on page give a little of a financial boost toward the production. You can go to birthasweknowitpodcast. com/support I look forward to bringing you another amazing story in a couple of weeks. But until then. Bye for now.