82-Art Almquist-Partner-2 Births-Cesarean-Vaginal-Mikayla & Leif

Transcript

Intro: 0:08

Welcome to Birth As We Know It, a podcast that is dedicated to recognizing the many different ways that birth unfolds. I am your host, Kiona Nessenbaum. I have experienced birth as a Doula, a student midwife, a birth assistant, and as a mother of three amazing children of my own. After attending over 140 births, I've realized that each birth experience is truly unique. So make sure you subscribe and join me as we are guided through many different birth experiences through the lens of the storyteller. Please be aware that some of these stories can be triggering to hear. So feel free to pause, take a breath, and come back and listen whenever you're ready. With that said, let's prep ourselves to dive deep and get detailed about what really happens in the birth space.

Disclaimer: 1:05

As a reminder, this podcast is intended for educational purposes only and has no intention of giving or replacing any medical advice. All advice that is given on the podcast is from the personal experiences of the storytellers. All medical or health related questions should be directed to your license provider.

Doula Services: 1:25

Before we dive into this episode today, I have an exciting announcement. Your girl, Kiona Nessenbaum, is back in the birth space as a birth doula. So if you are local to the greater Seattle area and in need of some birth doula support, please reach out. I would love to support you as you transition into parenthood. To learn more about this service, you can go to birthasweknowitpodcast. com/doula. Another service that I'm offering is called Labor Prep from a doula perspective. Now this can be done virtually or in-person, so it's also available to those that are not local to the greater Seattle area. What this is, is a two hour info session where you and I connect and talk about the best ways to prep for your labor and to inform you of what your options are. We also touch on how you can cope throughout labor, how partners can support you as you are laboring. And we touch on postpartum. So if you want to learn more about this service, go to birthasweknowitpodcast. com/laborprep. All right, let's dive into this episode.

Kiona: 2:32

Hello everyone and welcome back to the Birth As We Know It Podcast Today I am super excited to have on a partner with me today. And so I will be talking to Art Almquist, who will be talking to me about or actually talking to us about the birth of his two children, Mikayla and Leif. So welcome, Art. Thank you so much for coming on today.

Art: 2:55

Thank you, Kiona. It's a pleasure to be with you.

Kiona: 2:58

Yeah, I'm super excited to dive in. And I know I already said this before, but I'm excited to dive into this because you are the first partner outside of like my brother in law and my husband to have a full one episode to yourself. And I'm so stoked to like dive into the details from your perspective. the first thing I want to talk about is talk to me about the conception process with your kiddos. how was the conception process with Mikayla?

Art: 3:25

All right. I had a unique background. I was actually working at the headquarters of Jehovah's Witnesses up in Brooklyn, New York, for 15 years. My wife was there with me. I was there a total of 22 years. And there's no arrangement to have children in there. It's all volunteer. So after I'd been there seven years, I got acquainted with my wife, We got married and we went 15 years without children. I mean, we traveled the world. We went to 30 countries. We did all that stuff. But she really was interested in becoming a mom. It got to the point where she got the friends in the congregation actually bought her one of those lifelike baby dolls. Looks like a real baby, and she would keep it next to her desk at work. We both worked in the engineering department and like the overseer would come back, you know. Sister Almquist You're taking this too far. She'd be like, You're going to work the baby.

Kiona: 4:20

No

Art: 4:21

And then finally, I did get the call where she was in the infirmary and said , Hey. I just had a pregnancy test and it tested positive.

Kiona: 4:30

Nice, Nice. And so when you heard that that test was positive, what was going through your head?

Art: 4:35

You know, I knew it was going to be a big change in our lives because we would have to leave where I'd been there for 22 years to raise our family. But I was all for it because I'm from a big family. My mom had nine children. I'm number eight and my oldest sister's identical twins. We're still very close. We still have a Zoom meeting every Saturday, the first Saturday of every month. So family was always big to me. And and I know she wanted the mother. Biological clock was ticking. And so it was time and I was ready to go for it.

Kiona: 5:08

How was your wife's name is Mercedes. So how is Mercedes' pregnancy. Did she come across any challenges that you were aware of?

Art: 5:16

My wife is very much, you know, organic, natural, holistic, homeopathic, that type of person. so she took very good care of her health. We both exercise regularly. Marathon runners are heavily involved in sports, so physically she was in excellent condition. We were a little bit older. I was 42 when Mikaela was born. My wife was 36 years old. But she wanted to go natural. So that's when we contacted a midwife. She had 20 years of experience. I remember seeing the sign on the wall. Her certifications, she also had a sign that said, pregnancy is not an illness. You don't have to go to a hospital. and that kind of clicked with me. So the natural process and just to date myself. My grandfather was born in 1873. All right. My dad was born in 1921. That's over a hundred years ago. On one of your podcasts, someone even asked, a what was birth like 100 years ago? I wonder. It was like, Well, I can tell you all my dad's seven children were all born at home in the house that my Swedish grandfather built. So that's the way it was. And I could tell you firsthand just a unique experience.A friend I work with in New York, he was the baby. He said his mom and dad were in a cab and his dad went out to the field. The mother went up to the roof to work on the roof, repairing some shingles, came down, gave birth, went back up, finished the roof, came back to cook dinner and had dinner waiting for her husband when he came in from the field. So it's a little bit different back then. So if they can go through all that, you know, my wife want to do the midwife thing. We got the inflatable pool in our apartment filled with water. She had the big medicine ball. We were had the midwife there, her mom was there. Her mother wasn't as comfortable as she thought. We should be in a hospital, but she was going along with it. But it was an adventure.

Kiona: 7:18

Yes, because. you're going through this process of preparing. At home. Did you and Mercedes do any like childbirth at? And to prepare For what? Like at home.

Art: 7:30

Yeah, we had the videos to watch and the sessions with the midwife and she explained the procedures and I was fascinated when we would go in there, she would do a cervical inspection and stuff and all the babies can have a lot of hair and, thought everything was going well. She did develop gestational diabetes, so she had to be a little bit careful about the size and the diet. But things progressed right up to the ninth month and with okay, this time it's been nine months, but the baby wasn't coming in. She went overdue by a week. And then finally the birth pangs started coming.

Kiona: 8:07

Hmm. Nice. Okay. Yeah. So. What was your process of getting ready for baby?

Art: 8:13

I'm always into being prepared. So we did our homework. We preregistered at the local hospital, got acquainted with a doctor, filled out our DPR. The durable power of attorney medical directive covers everything no matter what happens, even in a fatality. What do you do before you unplug life support? That kind of detail. The kind of surgical procedure? Should there be a C-section? We wanted to avoid a blood transfusion, so I said I'd like to have the cell saver, which actually the operator takes the blood from where it's hemorrhaging filters. It runs through the machine, puts your own blood back into your body, so there's no blood loss. So we had all that signed and then we went in and Mercy said, okay, it's time we call the midwife. She came over and then she started having the contractions and timing them and had her get in a pool and then eventually had her start pushing. And that's where things got a little edgy because I think human nature, she had another birth going on the same night. Okay, bad timing, because I think she tried to expedite my wife and had her push too early because we weren't making a lot of progress. And I don't know everything about, ten centimeters dilation and that kind of stuff. But what I found out later is she said, okay, the baby's not coming. Do you want to keep trying? And I said, Well, if it's okay with Mercy, we'll try one more time. And if that doesn't work out well, we'll go to the hospital. So we tried that and it became pretty traumatic for my wife and she was in a great amount of pain to the point where the midwife had to call 911 and we actually took an ambulance from there, fortunately, to the hospital. They were all ready for us. We'd pre-registered and then the doctor took over and that was his diagnosis. He says. Unfortunately, the cervix is swollen. She pushed too hard, too early, and he put some type of monitor in there that said the baby's is a little stressed but still doing fine. The heart rate and everything's okay. Develop what he called meconium, I guess where the baby passed some waste inside the womb. And so he said, finally, we're going to have to do a C-section. So that's that's the procedure we went with.

Kiona: 10:34

So during that transition from going from home to hospital in with going in the ambulance like. Mercedes was actually quite traumatized by this. What was going through your head when you were seeing all of this go on where you kind of just gone with the flow or were you kind of in protective mode? Like, what were your.

Art: 10:57

Well, the tech was with my wife in the back and my mother in law was in the back. I was riding shotgun because space was limited and the driver was leaving me out. Know why did you wait so long?

Kiona: 11:09

Right.

Art: 11:09

Hey, I wasn't there in the engineering field. It's called the authority. Having jurisdiction. You know, it could be a fire department, it could be a judge, it could be the police. To me, the authority having jurisdiction was the midwife. She was the expert. She had 20 years of experience. And so when she said we have to call 911, I was following those guidelines. And so he calmed down and I said, we are pre-registered. Let's go to the hospital, which we did. And from there it was very good. The doctor was super experienced. He said, Hey, if you want to suit up getting your scrubs, you can be right in there in the operation room. And I said, I'd love that. So we went in there and my wife was awake through the whole procedure. They just had her down there and they had the baby out within minutes and, you know, cut the cord put the baby Mikayla right on Mercy's breast. i was very bright. You could tell the baby goes from the darkness to these operational life. And she was like. It kind of reminded me of Spanish. They don't really say being born. They say the baby was brought to the light, and that was certainly true in our case. she had one eye open looking at her mom and the other hand, she was feeling the breast and she latched on immediately and she started nursing immediately. It was remarkable. I said, you know how does the baby know to do that? And it just strengthened my faith in a creator that the baby, by instinct, knows exactly what to do. And they bonded. And Mercy was just smiling and glowing. And I was ecstatic.

Kiona: 12:43

That is so awesome. I love The fact that you got to go back into the O.R.? First off, I think that's great. second, I love that the overall experience from your perspective was smooth. Like the the caesarean section was smooth. Baby came out. You know, Makayla was on mom's chest nursing right away. That is so good. So people don't get to experience that. And so to know that you did get to experience that and then observe it with your own eyes and make the connection of baby coming to the light, like all of that moment happening for you is a shift in perspective of what life will look like from that point on. So the surgery was complete and you guys were settled back in in the room. Like, how were things there? was Mercy healing okay? Did she have any complications? Postpartum?

Art: 13:32

she was ecstatic that the baby was born and healthy. And so her mom was right there at the hospital, not in the operation room, but there. And so they let her go home the same day, believe it or not, stitched her up. And the baby was 8 pounds and a half. She was a large baby. So we went back home and of course, she was in bed. And my mother in law, was there taking care of her. She was nursing very systematically, had a great appetite. But there was a complication in two different aspects. Mikayla developed some type of infection. I can't remember if they called it a staph infection or if they really knew what it was, but we could see the spots all over her body, these tiny little spots and there was a poison in her system that you could tell her body was driving it to her extremities. The very ends of all her fingers, the ends of all her toes just got bright red and she lost all of her toenails. All of her fingernails, if you can believe that. Amazingly, that little creature so resilient. She shook that finally shook it off. All her nails grew back again.

Kiona: 14:42

Hmm.

Art: 14:43

I guess the DNA knows what to do with all that cell repair. Mercy's C-section also was a little bit dramatic because she developed a bit of infection there. It swelled. It was warm to the touch, and one night in bed, it just split open the stitches and a liquid poured out. So we had to go back and get some antiseptics and all of that kind of stuff. The doctor who's pretty down to earth, he says, okay, what I want you to do is take this. It was like a Q-Tip with steroids. It was an eight inch long stick. And I'm an engineer. I know what, eight inches and had a huge swab on the end. And he said, You're going to stick this inside the incision all the way, clean out anything you bring in. I'm going, for real.

Kiona: 15:27

Oh,

Art: 15:27

And

Kiona: 15:27

God.

Art: 15:27

yeah, he had me do that. He had me clean the wound on a daily basis and my wife let me do it. I can't imagine it had to be painful, but we got through it. And eventually she healed up. The baby turned into a beautiful, healthy, bouncing baby girl. So all's well that ends well.

Kiona: 15:45

The description of that Q-tip on steroids is actually quite, quite visual. And I have an idea of. It actually looks like it is because they have these basically Q-tips on steroids. Right. An they have a solution on them. Did you have to use like a brown solution to clean?

Art: 16:05

Some type of antiseptic thing. Yeah. That would prevent the infection from progressing and to clean it out.

Kiona: 16:13

Right. And so they didn't have her stitched back up. They had to, like, kind of clean it around.

Art: 16:20

Yeah, there was enough of an opening that allowed me to go in and move this around. He explained a procedure, and I still can't believe I did it, to be honest with you.

Kiona: 16:30

Yeah, you kind of just had to, you know, like you

Art: 16:33

Yeah.

Kiona: 16:33

you're like, All right, got to take care

Art: 16:34

Doctor's

Kiona: 16:35

of my wife.

Art: 16:35

orders.

Kiona: 16:36

Yeah.

Art: 16:36

Go with the flow. So I did.

Kiona: 16:39

Yeah, that's intense. Now, when it comes to Mercy's immediate postpartum with Mikayla, did she have any signs or symptoms of postpartum depression at all?

Art: 16:52

recall that she seemed so enthralled with the baby and the baby was so happy and she was so happy. It was like a high that I don't remember her ever coming down from. She she loved that baby and the baby loved her. And we had such a support network with our local congregation of a lot of theocratic activity, you know, going to the meetings and Bible study and things like that. We had pretty fast paced life. she had so friends that all wanted to come over and we didn't quarantine the baby. We allowed people to see the baby and hold the baby as long as they were clean and wash their hands. And so that went pretty well. I don't remember any postpartum issues at all.

Kiona: 17:34

That's good. That's really, really good. So nice to hear that you had a solid support network. You know, with all of your friends and family around to help you guys transition during this life changing moment. That's really great. when it comes to the conception of your son Leif, how far apart are your children and was the conceptual process any different for you?

Art: 17:59

they're pretty much exactly three years apart. you know, after Mikayla was a couple of years old, we said, w, you know, she's got three children in her family or two more siblings, I should say. And I had a big family, so I didn't want to see her as an only child. What we think about having another one, we both really wanted a girl on the first go around, and fortunately, that's how it turned out. So we thought it would be kind of nice to either have another girl for her sister or a brother as a sibling. But as we were thinking about that in 2001, September 11, 2001 happened. And it was pretty traumatic because we're both from New York and, you know, we're like, what is this world coming to? So we decided, no, w not going to have a second baby so soon as we made the decision not to have a second baby, she got pregnant. So.

Kiona: 18:47

Yeah

Art: 18:48

But reverse psychology. Call it whatever you want. He came along and we were thrilled about him also. And this time around. it was a drastically different pregnancy. She didn't really have morning sickness. She was never nauseous with Mikayla, But with Leif, it was drastically different. And some of the friends said, well, it's likely a different sex baby because her body is reacting quite differently to it. And that proved to be the case because she fell ill. She won't get out of bed just sick. But she made her way through. She stayed active. She was real good with her diet. And as that progressed, she decided that time that we would go ahead and go with our same doctor who did such a great job delivering the first baby, even though it was a C-section. So when that baby came along, it was pretty routine. She was nine months. She was way out there. She was huge. Bo babies were almost 9 pounds. And she's a Latina. She's petite, she's fairly small, but so she said, All right, I feel it's almost time she wasn't really having contractions yet, but let's take a walk around the block. We have a very quiet subdivision here, so we're walking around the block and her water breaks. She's a water broke. It's time to go to the hospital. So again, we had her mother there at the house, and this time we went to the hospital, a totally different pregnancy. Our doctor was there. Fortunately, Dr. Rajiv, our man, he was it was so amazing and he was so hands on. He said, All right, Art, you're going to deliver this baby. And I said, I am. He said, Yeah, suit up. So I'm suited up and antiseptic and gloves and the gown and the mask and scrubs. And he says, okay, get down here. She's going to start pushing that she's already dilated to ten centimeters and she's ready. So you can see the crown of my son's head was already visible. And he said, Put your hand down here. And I'm not sure if I'm pronouncing it right perineum to give her support there so she doesn't tear and okay, mercy push. And he just started coming out like he had a map and a flashlight. He was on his way out and I was trying to hold her where I needed to hold her. But then he shut the head popped and then the shoulders popped. I'm not kidding, Kiona. He flew out of there like I was running down a ball in centerfield, and I had to catch him with both hands. That's how fast he popped out of there. So it was so drastically different from the other pregnancy. Like you say, every pregnancy is unique. Every delivery is is different. But the doctor was looking over my shoulder. Is it a good catch? He sat me down, cleaned up. What shocked me is when I cut the cord, I thought the cord was going to be like cutting a hot dog or something. That thing is like a piece of steel cable and it makes sense. It has to be resilient to tether that baby in the womb, no matter how she twists and kicks and turns and that's just another thing that made me in awe of the creator, how that whole process works out. And and you could tell, I think I sent you a picture of me holding the baby when he was like 10 minutes old. And the look on my face is just totally elation. I couldn't believe it.

Kiona: 22:02

Yeah. You look so happy, which is great. And now to know the process that, like, got you to that happiness, you know, you're like, Oh, my God, I caught him. That is so. Oh, so cool. I think that it's super awesome that the doctor also pulled you in and was like, Come on, you're in here. You're going to glove up. Get it, get it. Come get your baby. that is a sign of like a really supportive birth team as well. You know, someone that. This experience as your experience, and they're just helping guide you in that process of becoming a family of four instead of a family of three.

Art: 22:36

And we we like yourself. We had our daughter who is three years old. Mikayla was three years old, but she knew everything that was going on. S was intrigued. She wanted to see the details. And so when she heard her brother, that's the other thing. Mercy. Right after she gave birth, she did tell her a little bit, but she was just thrilled. She immediately called her sister and said, listen, that's leave crying, you know, And I had we were just getting cleaned off. We brought Mikayla in right away. Oh, she was so proud of her brother. She bonded with her brother and she couldn't get enough of her brother. I think I sent you some other pictures everywhere we went. She wanted to hold him and she wanted to look at it. And he wanted to look at her. To this day, Kiona, those two are inseparable. She's 25 now. Leif is 22. They still share an apartment up in New York. They call each other baby. I remember one time Lee fainted for some reason. Oh, man. She was over there in a heartbeat. And what happened? And.. So never any jealousy? Nothing like that. It was all just thrilled to have a sibling and the interest they had in each other. It just. It made it a unique family bond. It was pretty incredible.

Kiona: 23:49

Yeah. Oh, that sounds like such an amazing. A bond that your children have, that is beautiful. And so in Mercy's postpartum time with Leif, did you experience the same kind of excitement and love, or did she have any? Difficulties this time around.

Art: 24:08

Again, the nursing the baby went so well. She had an abundance of milk. both babies were. I could show you some pictures. They looked like the Michelin man, you know what? It looks like they have rubber bands for their risk because they're so chubby and healthy. I think that initial breastfeeding of the colostrum and then the perfect diet with the antibodies from the mother is a big help because the kids have been very healthy since getting over the initial infection and all of that stuff. So with Leif, No Complications did really well. Both kids just were good, healthy babies, very happy babies and got along so well. So they did very, very well scholastically in school. We put them through the Montessori program and they just did so well. My daughter scored the highest S.A.T. in the history of her school, second only in the county. She passed her college exam 100% at age 16 while she was still in high school. all that care and training and interest, it pays big dividends. I, I remember somebody saying, because we took the kids to Disney. We had all these activities when they were very small and someone said, Well, your daughter's only five years old. She's not even going to remember all this stuff you're doing for her. And I think, you know, the majority of the brain forms in the first five years, so that the more we can give them. During the first five years, I started reading to my baby before she was born. While she was in the womb, so she got used to hearing my voice and so when I would talk, she would look even when she was a little baby, because she remembered what that voice sounded like. And I think that's important that the father bond with the children at a very even after conception, and that pays big dividends.

Kiona: 25:56

Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. I agree. 10. With the experiences that you can give. Children, especially at a young age. Is so important for their development because of what they're exposed to. Right. And. Even if. They don't remember you, do you remember? And as a parent, you still get to have the memory of those experiences of the faces that they made when they went on their first ride or the first time they got injured. And you helped them out. You know, all of those things. It's not all just about what the kid will remember, but the experience that the family as a whole gets to remember, which is great.

Art: 26:35

Yeah. I mean, training wheels on the bike and the trike and and all of that. It is amazing. It's funny how you mentioned going on the rides. Mikayla, love the roller coaster so much. We would go on again, Poppy, and then we'd go on it again and again when I was getting sick and she just couldn't get enough of it.

Kiona: 26:56

That's great. I love that. I think that's great. And for her to have that experience, she had a blast. And you have the memory of her saying that even if she doesn't remember. Right. So

Art: 27:04

Hmm.

Kiona: 27:04

that's. That's beautiful. So I want you to tell me a little bit about how you felt postpartum during the time with your kiddos. what was going through your mind as you became a father.

Art: 27:15

I was a proud dad. I was so busy at work. my job. I'm a mechanical engineer. I was designing laser based industrial machinery, which is very high tech. But Mercy would bring the kids down. my first child, w they were very young, I was designing luxury motor coaches. One, two, $3 million units. I worked with like Larry the Cable Guy, David Love, the third mark and Arlene Martin of NASCAR. And so she would bring it down and they would let us stay in these big 45 foot recreational vehicles for the weekend to test out all the systems so that I've got pictures of my daughter driving the big bus and, you know, looking at the big 42 inch fold down TVs. And and I remember people at work would say, oh, I can't believe when you walk out there and your daughter just leaps in the air to see your daddy. That must be a really nice feeling because there were so many stories at work of failed marriages, dysfunctional families, and they were like I said, well, are you and your wife Newlywe. newlyweds? And I said, No, we've been married for 20 years. And they said, Oh, just the way you treat each other, right? I think the best gift you can give your children is to love your wife. The kids pick up on that. And that love is what really is the perfect bond of union.

Kiona: 28:34

Yeah, absolutely. I think that's so beautiful. And to have. The experience of, you know, Mikayla and eventually Leif. I'm sure Just so excited. That is a feeling that never gets old, And when my kids say, Mommy, mommy, I'm like, Yes, yes, talk to me. Tell me what's going on. Tell me about your life. Tell me about your day. It's exciting to have that. So I think it's wonderful that you have that with your family.

Art: 28:57

Yeah. And the nice thing is, here at the house, we had the swimming pool, which they loved to get in there. You had to be careful. One time I was even out there watching. I'm at the pool, watching the kids and somehow looking at Mikayla. And then I look over and all there is is the crowd of Leif's head above the water. And he's struggling. I snatch him out of there as the number one cause of death of children under five years old in Florida is is drowning. So we've had to be very vigilant. But they loved the pool. They love playing in the pool. An we taught him very young when he was maybe by two years old, he could swim back and forth across the pool. So we taught him how to swim very young, never underestimate the ability of that toddler, though, because Mikayla, I remember hearing on the radio, someone had said their toddler got out at two years of age at the house and the newscasters. And that's impossible for a toddler to open the door of a house at two years old. Our daughter, when she was one year and nine months, opened the door in the laundry room, open the door to the garage, went out the garage, came round out the front door and rang the doorbell. That's the only way we knew she was even out of the house.

Kiona: 30:09

Wow. She was adventurous, for sure.

Art: 30:11

Yes.

Kiona: 30:12

Yeah.

Art: 30:13

At Home Depot. I do a lot of work up at Home Depot. And and the Home Depot guy says, don't let your daughter climb up there. And there were these movable stairs and she had climbed up to the top of this eight foot stair all by herself, like when she was three years old. How do you do that when you're three years old? And I said, I didn't put her up there. She got there so

Kiona: 30:33

Right.

Art: 30:33

slow, sn her down. Very active. We lost Mikayla at Wal-Mart one time. Okay, So my wife's thinking she's with me. I'm thinking with her. We just turn around and she's gone. So we ran and told the, cashier, they make an announcement, all of a sudden they don't let anybody out the doors. And here comes someone with her and she's just chatting it up and having a good time she was so social that I could be standing in line, checking out. And there's like a monitor on there. And Mikayla, at like four years old, turned to the person behind us. Like my dad only lets me watch an hour of TV a day.

Kiona: 31:08

Yeah.

Art: 31:09

Whether that's a good idea. They don't have any stage fright additionally. So it's good in a way, but it calls for more teaching to make sure they're prepared for life and for school.

Kiona: 31:23

Bu I mean, to be honest. Her doing that and being so social it's so beneficial because that teaches her about life, right? T way that people react to her. About like speaking, like if someone going to be like, Oh, be quiet little kid or something to be like, r? Only an hour. Oh, man. Come on, Dad. You know, like, how is someone going to respond to her? And then she's going to or she has learned the experience of. What it's like to interact with strangers in a safe way. You know, so

Art: 31:52

I tried to help my wife a lot. You know, the. The diaper genie became my best friend. That little

Kiona: 31:57

yeah.

Art: 31:57

thing with me. You got those things you can storm in there and then pull the whole. twisted thing and throw it in the garbage. So I did as much as I could. And again, her mother was not far off and that helped a lot. And the congregation friends loved our children. And when they're small, even at like our congregation meetings, children have to move. They have to make some noise. So we wouldn't discipline them for being children. When I was a kid, you behave as a kid. That's what the Apostle Paul said. When I was a little one, I behaved like a little. And so I would take them outside during the meetings and, oh, look, Mikayla, here's a turtle. Look at this frog over here. And then when they were settle down a little bit and we could bring them back in and let them sit down for ten, 15 more minutes. But we let them be kids.

Kiona: 32:42

That's beautiful. That. The best form of parenting is letting kids be kids. Guiding them as much as possible and of course, disciplining when necessary. But I feel like when it comes to discipline, it's more of observing what they're observing. And discipline is keeping them safe, not necessarily keeping them in line. You know what I mean?

Art: 33:04

Yeah. My son was a big thinker. He was like Dad, I going to stay here when I get married? And how when will I get a house? And you know how. How? And he was like, five years old.

Kiona: 33:17

Mm hmm. Yeah.

Art: 33:18

That's all going to come later on. Don't worry about.

Kiona: 33:21

Yeah. Yeah. My son has already talked about, like, one day when I get married. Are you still going to live in the same house as my mom? And I'm like, probably not, son. I don't know. We'll see what happens. We could be a multigenerational home. That's cool. Yeah. Art, it has been so, so great being able to talk to you about these experiences of your children. I have closing questions for you. is there anything that we have yet mentioned that you want to mention before we dive into those?

Art: 33:49

Just that family is God's idea. He only comes up with great ones. I think his gift of procreation is one of the most marvelous gifts he's given us as humans. And it's such a privilege and it's such a responsibility. My mother said one time I actually heard her talking on the phone with somebody. Oh, my children. I wouldn't take $1,000,000 for any of my kids, but I wouldn't give$0.05 to have another one, you know?

Kiona: 34:16

Yeah.

Art: 34:17

I understand what she means because it's the greatest job, but it's so challenging, you know? So you have to do it the right way. And when you do it, invest in your kids. And then it's so rewarding. It's such a blessing.

Kiona: 34:33

Yes. Yeah, it is absolutely rewarding when you put in the effort to raise wonderful humans because it shows, right? It shows as they age and get older. And when you watch them develop into the now your children are adults, like you watch them develop into adulthood and you like let them free in a sense. And you're like, I trust that you're going to be okay. But I am always here when you need me kind of thing. So I think that's great. when it comes to my final questions, my first question is what is one piece of advice that you would give to all partners to prepare for labor and birth?

Art: 35:06

For me and it really paid off again was preparation. We prepared that for all outcomes. If it wasn't successful with a midwife, we did pre-register at the hospital. We had our doctor fully informed with our medical directive on what our wishes were, no matter what procedure had to be undertaken. We really tried to educate ourselves with all the videos that were available talking to the experts. My mom had a lot to say since she had nine kids successfully, and of course, her mother being there. And then you got to go for it. You got to be brave. You got to go for the go for the experience and then go with the flow.

Kiona: 35:49

Hmm. Yeah, that's great advice. I think preparation and kind of going with the flow is those are both very great pieces of advice. Now, when it comes to you, my final question is, if you could describe each of the births of your children in one word, what would it be?

Art: 36:09

All right. For Mikaela, it's got to be roller coaster because it would cheer like Charles Dickens book, The Tale of Two Cities. It was the best of times. It was the worst of times. I mean, we were at the whole gamut of emotions, but we came away with a beautiful baby. But between that point and that point, it was quite an experience, a roller coaster. For Leif. I just have to say the word is elation. I was just thrilled. I was so happy to be a part of the birth process. I delivered my baby. He was perfect. And it was a unique experience. I'll never forget it. And I'm an old dude. Okay? I'm 66 years old. I was born in 1957. That's when there were only 48 states in the United States. Alaska and Hawaii didn't even come till 1959. But I will never forget that moment. It was elation.

Kiona: 37:02

I love that. I think that's so great. Totally understood. The word roller coaster for McKayla. And I think it's great that she loves roller coasters, too, actually. And Elation for Leif is amazing because you had such a huge part in it, you know, And that is just so, so wonderful. So. Art, Thank you so much for sharing these stories on the birth As we Know It podcast.

Art: 37:27

And thanks to you, Kiona, I mean, it's so much hard work to put this together and to coordinate it, but it's such a beautiful resource for people around the world. On this unique experience of giving birth.

Kiona: 37:38

Yeah, absolutely. Thank you so much.

Outro: 37:53

During this interview with Art, I learned what it was like to observe pregnancy, labor, birth and postpartum from a partner perspective. Art, Thank you so much for sharing your story with us and I really appreciate you encouraging all partners to get in there and really experience birth hands on. And if you want to check out another episode from a partner perspective, you can check out episode 23 with Samuel Munchrath. That is my brother in law and he talks about what it's like to catch his son, Soren. And as for you listeners, if you want to check out all of the other episodes of the Birth As We Know It podcast, you can go to birthasweknowitpodcast. com. And when you're there, check out the services tab and learn more about the birth doula support or the labor prep from a doula perspective. and to get the show notes for this episode and to see photos of Art and his children, you can go to birthasweknowitpodcast. com/82. Alright friends it was great talking to you and I will talk to you again soon. Bye for now.