Birth As We Know It ™️-Birth Stories and Experiences

88-Heather Forseth-3 Births-Vaginal-Cesarean-NICU-Breech-VBAC-Noah, Maysen & Cooper

• Episode 88

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Heather dives deep into the details of what each of her three pregnancies was like for her. She also touches on the importance of postpartum support and following your intuition because she had to do so for her second pregnancy, which was her first home birth experience. This led her to discover that her daughter was a footling breech at home. Want to find out what happened? Tune in to this episode and let me know what you find out! 

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Intro:

Welcome to Birth As We Know It, a podcast that is dedicated to recognizing the many different ways that birth unfolds. I am your host, Kiona Nessenbaum. I have experienced birth as a doula, a student midwife, a birth assistant, and as a mother of three amazing children of my own. After attending over 140 births, I've realized that each birth experience is truly unique. So make sure you subscribe and join me as we are guided through many different birth experiences through the lens of the storyteller. Please be aware that some of these stories can be triggering to hear. So feel free to pause, take a breath, and come back and listen whenever you're ready. With that said, let's prep ourselves to dive deep and get detailed about what really happens in the birth space.

Disclaimer:

As a reminder, this podcast is intended for educational purposes only and has no intention of giving or replacing any medical advice. All advice that is given on the podcast is from the personal experiences of the storytellers. All medical or health-related questions should be directed to your licensed provider.

Doula Annoucement:

Before we dive into this episode today, I have an exciting announcement. Your girl, Kiona Nessenbaum, is back in the birth space as a birth doula. So if you are local to the greater Seattle area and in need of some birth doula support, please reach out. I would love to support you as you transition into parenthood. To learn more about this service, you can go birth as we know at podcast.com forward slash doula. Another service that I'm offering is called labor prep from a doula perspective. Now this can be done virtually or in person. So it's also available to those that are not local to the greater Seattle area. What this is, is a two hour info session where you and I connect and talk about the best ways to prep for your labor and to inform you of what your options are. We also touch on how you can cope throughout labor, how partners can support you as you are laboring, and we touch on postpartum. So if you want to learn more about this service, go to birthasweknowitpodcast.com forward slash labor prep. All right, let's dive into this episode.

Kiona:

Hello, everybody, and welcome back to the birth as we know it podcast. Today, I'm excited to have on Heather Forseth, who will be talking to us about the births of her three children, Noah, Mason, and Cooper. So Heather, thank you so much for coming on

Heather:

Thanks for having me. I'm excited.

Kiona:

Yes, I'm excited too. And the reason is because all three of your births are very different. And I just want to dive into the details.

Heather:

Very different.

Kiona:

let's go ahead and start off with the conception process. Tell me about the conception of Noah. Was Noah planned?

Heather:

Abosolutely not. I had been married for less than a month before I found out I was pregnant. So I actually was on birth control. I was on the pill with two of my babies both of my boys. am a rule follower. took that thing religiously.

Kiona:

Yeah.

Heather:

So not planned but, welcomed for sure.

Kiona:

Oh, that is so interesting, because I also know of a couple others who have conceived while on birth control. And you know, you're just that point zero zero one percent where,

Heather:

Of course.

Kiona:

yeah. So I'm through there. let's talk a little bit about the pregnancy with Noah. Did you have any symptoms? let's dive into that.

Heather:

You know, pregnancy with Noah was really wonderful. I had just a little bit of morning sickness. Pretty, average, I would say. But toward the end, I would say, I don't know sixth month perhaps, I started having some serious sciatica pain. when I was in the office, brought my heating So when I stood up again, I wasn't like frozen. But I wish I had known then what I know now. But of course, this was so many years because he was born in 1999. I would have gone to a chiropractor. I would have done so many I just did a lot of stretching and a lot of waiting at the bottom of stairs until my legs were able to go. But, you know, health wise, I was very healthy and didn't have any problems.

Kiona:

Beautiful, beautiful. throughout your pregnancy with Noah, did you take any childbirth education classes to prepare you for birth?

Heather:

I took every single thing that our hospital and birth center and midwife offered. Everything.I read everything. I went to everything. Every single class. Every single everything. And I'm glad I did. I learned something. Some things were pretty old hat to me, But I did it all. Honestly, I would probably do it again if I needed to, you know, just a good to have a refresher.

Kiona:

Yeah, of course. I love that. I love hearing that you just took advantage of all of the opportunities, all of the resources, all the things, because that tells me as a listener of your story that you were doing your due diligence and making sure you knew it was coming up.

Heather:

Oh, yes.

Kiona:

Beautiful. That's great. So at what point in your pregnancy did it hit you that you were going to be a mom?

Heather:

Man, you know, honestly, straight from the from the moment that test popped up positive that I was I would say that that was even a child. My number one goal was to be a mom. So for me to see that actual stick that said, Oh, you're pregnant. Right then. Right there. I knew it. I couldn't wait for it. It was taking forever.

Kiona:

I personally also had the goal of always, wanting to be a mom. Didn't know when, how, whatever. but when it happened, I was ecstatic. It was, it was amazing.

Heather:

That is, that is the perfect word. I was, I was ecstatic. I wasn't, I was surprised. But I was so ecstatic. It was ridiculous.

Kiona:

Oh, that's so beautful. when it came to choosing a provider, how did you make that decision? Cause I heard you just say that you're with a midwife. Tell me how you decided on a midwife.

Heather:

Well, the hospital that was nearest to me had the choice. I was birthing in North Dakota and crazy enough, 26 years ago they actually had midwives and OBs working together. And I got to choose and I knew, right away that I just, I don't know. I knew I wanted as little intervention as possible. And so even back then I knew that to do that, the likelihood would be, I needed to go midwife. And I'm really glad I did. She was wonderful.

Kiona:

Beautiful.

Heather:

Yeah.

Kiona:

That's awesome. I'm just going to keep saying beautiful. This whole

Heather:

that is okay. Wait till we get to, wait till we get to the next one.

Kiona:

plant in the seed there. yeah. But before we bounce to the second one, let's talk about the birth of Noah. What point did you know that you were in labor and things were picking up?

Heather:

I didn't get to experience going into labor with Noah. t told me of course, by ultrasound, that he was a giant baby. And, uh, that in order to save my body and to avoid a C-section, I needed to be induced. And, um, again, uneducated, young, I said, okay. And I did what they said. I went in one morning at like 7 a. to the hospital. And I believe they started with the gel, um, that they inserted. And I was in active labor by like eight-ish. It was kaboom. But I had been dilated to three for quite some time already. So that's when I knew I was in labor.

Kiona:

so how did your labor go from there? When you realized labor was happening, was it quick? Was it slow? what were you feeling? What was going through your mind?

Heather:

Well, I was so excited, f of all, finally getting this show on the road. but they did start Pitocin and my labor was unbelievably hard, unbelievably fast. I could not have done it without my nurses. And I had the cutest, the sweetest nursing student had never witnessed birth before. I was her first. And they were just so good. They held my hand. They walked me through it because I wanted no intervention. So, they walked me through it. They helped me. We, we did it together, really.

Kiona:

And do you remember what the pushing phase felt like?

Heather:

I did. It was almost relief. It was almost a relief to just, all right, all right. That stuff really hurt. And now let's get to the good stuff. That's kind of what I felt like, you know, let's, let's do this. And it was very short. And it was very short. Very short. I venture to say less than 15 minutes. my midwife was actually seeing a patient in the clinic that morning and almost didn't make it. Almost didn't make it. Um, a nurse almost got to catch my baby, but she flew in at the last second. She walked in the door with her arms straight out and, uh, they gowned her up and someone threw a visor on her face and kaboom. So, yeah.

Kiona:

Good thing she made it.

Heather:

Very quick. I, I had wanted to be in the tub, but that just did not fly. He was too fast.

Kiona:

Yeah.

Heather:

Very fast.

Kiona:

Yeah. That's always good. I mean, that sounds like a really positive induction story. that your body was just working with you and reacting to the medications from the induction as it needed to. And your body did exactly what it needed to do to bring that baby into this world.

Heather:

Yes. I had a great seasoned nurse and she really was so We did a lot of, of sitting in the rocking chair and rocking in the rock. And that was so helpful. So, so helpful.

Kiona:

Yeah. I can imagine how helpful that would be because as a birth doula, now I have learned that rhythm is very important with labor. And when you're in a rocking chair, that's what you're creating for yourself is that rhythm.

Heather:

Another position that I really liked when I was doing that was, on the bed, on all fours, hands and knees

Kiona:

Yep.

Heather:

and doing the same rocking.

Kiona:

Mm-hmm.

Heather:

The rhythm.

Kiona:

Yep. It's the rhythm. It's the rhythm. Awesome. So tell me about what your immediate postpartum time was like. Did you get to have Noah directly on your chest? Did you breastfeed? What was that like for you?

Heather:

You know, really, it was idyllic. they put him on my chest immediately and we bonded immediately. His eyes were open. He was looking straight at me. holding my finger. I actually don't remember delivering the placenta because at that point he was on my chest and all my attention was focused on him. And so I know it happened during that period of time, but. that was not the important thing in my life right then. It was, it was pretty wonderful.

Kiona:

that's so awesome to be able to experience that. Would you say that you experienced the oxytocin high after Noah came out?

Heather:

Absolutely. I felt nothing else. I saw nothing else. there was nothing, nothing but him. it was fabulous. I actually had a slight tear and I didn't notice, didn't pay attention while they were stitching up. I was just oxytocin right to my kid.

Kiona:

Heck

Heather:

All that love and all that, you know, pain relief right there.

Kiona:

Right.

Heather:

Mm-hmm.

Kiona:

when you guys left the hospital and went home, what did your support network look like?

Heather:

Gosh, I was so lucky. I was so lucky. my then partner, worked full time and went to school full time. So he was period not around. However, I have the best mommy and daddy ever. And really, truly, they were my people. They saved me. My daddy would come over in the middle of the night bringing me cabbage to put in my bra. my mom would cook dinners. Dad would bring him over. Dad would say, I'm coming to pick you up. And he'd come and pick me and Noah up, drive us over to mom's house, and we would all hang out all day. So I wouldn't be home alone all day long, was, it really was fabulous. So I was a very lucky, and I understand that I'm very lucky. So, yeah.

Kiona:

Yeah, that's so sweet. I love that because what they see is not, know, this woman that had a baby. They see their baby who has a baby.

Heather:

Yes, yes,

Kiona:

To care for you like their baby. You're a package deal now with Noah. He just

Heather:

sure.

Kiona:

comes along for the ride.

Heather:

Yeah,

Kiona:

That's so awesome. In your postpartum time, did you experience any postpartum mood disorders at all with, being alone a lot of the time?

Heather:

Not at all. Not at all. this pregnancy was, this whole, from conception to birth to postpartum was really idyllic. I think I think I have if I had not had the support that I had from my parents. So, but they were there for me always, you know, and I had friends checking in and coworkers checking in, but really, my parents were the stars.

Kiona:

Yeah. Oh, of course. Yes. That's so beautiful. That is so beautiful. And so, Noah and Mason are only a couple years years apart. so, was Mason a surprise or was she planned?

Heather:

No, she was planned, planned, planned. As a matter of fact, we wanted them close. I wanted them way closer than they turned out to be. We tried for quite a while. Not to the point of going to see the doctor and things like that, but I was at that point where I was like, okay, maybe we need to go talk to someone now. But we didn't need to.

Kiona:

Well, that's nice. when you were planning, were you starting to feel like the fun of making a baby became transactional? Or was it more, we're kind of going with the flow?

Heather:

At the beginning, we were just going with the flow. And then for a while there, it was like, again. But again, toward the end, when we actually did get pregnant it was more like, all right. because we had decided we're just going to forget about it. Don't worry about it. and then, of course, then it happened because we weren't stressed.

Kiona:

Right. Yeah. And that tends to happen. That really does tend to happen when people try, try, try. And then when they decide to stop trying is when they tend to fall pregnant. Yeah. And so, how was Mason's pregnancy different than Noah's?

Heather:

would say, first of all, it was different because it was stressful at home with my partner. That was the main difference in general with her. I was pretty healthy with her. had a really pretty decent pregnancy. Just average a little bit of morning sickness. Of course, exhausted because I had a two-year-old. You know? So, here I am almost 50 years old, and I'm going to say it, I love being pregnant. I love being pregnant. I love giving birth. I would do it 20 more times, but I can't. However.

Kiona:

That's a lot more times, but.

Heather:

Yes, yes. I do. I just, I just love being pregnant, and it, being pregnant is, is, was always a good time for me.

Kiona:

Mm-hmm.

Heather:

Pretty healthy, pretty, pretty decent, happy, and happy.

Kiona:

Oh, that's beautiful. as you got further into your pregnancy with Mason, did you have the same plans when it came to your birth location, or were you guys located somewhere else?

Heather:

We were located in Arkansas at that point. We had moved from North Dakota to Arkansas, and I knew I wanted go the midwife route. That definitely my plan because again, I wanted as few intervention as possible, And that's when I decided, after a lot of research, that I wanted to do a home birth. And it took a little bit of persuasion on my part to get my then partner on board. mama was really scared, too. But, I did the research, and I brought the research to the table. And so we did eventually decide on a home birth with a wonderful midwife.

Kiona:

That's awesome. Yeah, I understand that need of persuasion. And for a home birth and it's understandable, right? Because it's known that, like, birth happens in the hospital. That's, like, everybody's go-to.

Heather:

Absolutely.

Kiona:

It's totally, totally, totally fair. Birth does happen in the hospital. Yes, it does every day. But there are options, right? So there's options for home birth, birth center, hospital. And that persuasion piece is a really common attribute to home birthers. So,

Heather:

For

Kiona:

yeah.

Heather:

sure.

Kiona:

so how did it look different for you when you went into labor with Mason?

Heather:

Everything about Mason's labor and delivery was different. I actually was driving home from church by myself. I wasn't by myself. I, of course, had my two-year-old with me. And my water broke. But I wasn't sure that's what it was. Because I heard this loud, and then I felt this weird sensation. And I thought, that can't be what your water breaking really sounds like, right? I second-guessed myself, like, all the way home. I just kept driving home.

Kiona:

Yeah.

Heather:

Because I was like, that can't be. There's no way. But, I got home, I definitely broken my water. So, I labored, I suppose, for just a little bit at home before I called my midwife. Because my first labor was four hours long. And so, I did have this fear of, although I wanted a home birth, I also wanted an attended home birth. That was, that was what I was choosing. That was something that would make me happy and comfortable. so, I, I called her probably more quickly than someone else may have, just because I did not know if I was going to have another ultra short labor. so, when she got there, she, we were just moseying around. I was walking around in the house. My mama came to get my son, the little one, the two-year-old. we were all ready to roll. And, I don't know. An hour after my midwife had gotten there, I had this weird, I don't want to say pain, because it wasn't like, oh, no. But it was this weird twang, this weird feeling in my stomach. And I said, I don't, something's not quite right. so I asked for a cervical check, which, again, that was something that I hadn't wanted. At that moment, I thought, something, I don't know, let's check this out. And she checked, and she said, well, you're nearly 10. And I was like, oh, oh, goodness. But I also had one foot hanging out of my vagina So, that was a footling breach. if she had been just, I can't even think of what the other, the regular breach is, just the bum first. my midwife said that, I would have been able to deliver. But with footling, I mean, she's doing a split. One leg is up by her face, one leg is hanging out. so we needed to do a very fast transfer, since I was at 10 already. So, was a crazy ride. My midwife did call an ambulance and the ambulance said, we can't be there for 12 minutes. And my midwife said, we don't have 12 minutes. Don't know what you're, nope, don't have time. So we all hopped into her van with her assistant midwife driving. She was in the back with me and we sped through our town. To get me to the hospital. The whole time, the sweet little midwife saying, honey, don't push. But you, as well as I know, when your body pushes, it pushes. She had me blowing out the candle the whole time. You can't push if you're blowing out the candle. I'm like, yes, I can. I mean, I tried not to push because obviously it was very, very dangerous. But the arrival at the hospital was, was crazy Because, you see depictions on TV and about all the people clustering outside by the car and the wheelchair. And, it was like that. because it was emergent at that point. They just brought me straight to the OR. It was not, going into the ER to triage. It was straight to the OR. And I, it was crazy. Somehow we got me on a gurney, not on a, not on a wheelchair, because I had a foot hanging out. what I remember the most was looking up at the ceiling and all the lights just whizzing by me above and all the heads and the eyes and the people with their big eyes and everybody barking orders at other people. And that was like the most frightening part of the entire situation. Because I knew, I mean, I knew it was emergent. I did know it was dangerous and we need to hurry. But at that when I saw everything in motion, I knew it was bad. so they brought me straight into the OR. And of course, they would not let my partner in at that point. But they did let my midwife in. Because my midwife actually was a nurse at that hospital.

Kiona:

Oh.

Heather:

So she did have privileges, per se. But they did let Gail in with me. which was really comforting to me. So, here I think, you know, we're going to get ready and we're going to have an epidural and have this baby. And my doctor's there and he's checking out the business. And he's like, this, nope, no time. We've got to put her out now. Put her out. Put her out. Was the last thing I remember.

Kiona:

Mm-hmm.

Heather:

And I'm holding my midwife's hand. And the mask, the anesthesia mask, is coming toward my face. And I was praying like crazy. it was, it was wild. And they did let my midwife during the procedure. but it was hairy. I do have the operative report. and I, I've read it twice over the years. But that, that was enough. Because it was close. It was very close. because she had descended so much and her one leg was up so high. They had to like pull to get her out of the birth canal and out through the surgical, you know, incision. which was wild to read that. So that was a whole different world for me.

Kiona:

Yeah.

Heather:

To my last. but gosh, I don't even know where to go for there. I'm just like, whoo.

Kiona:

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, let's let that sit there for a second.

Heather:

Yeah.

Kiona:

Because. That is a lot to unpack. Right. And going from this peaceful environment at home to you listening to your body, following your intuition and asking for a cervical exam to find out, oh, it's go time.

Heather:

Danger time. Danger

Kiona:

time. We are in a dangerous territory here. And I think that. Your midwife making the decision to drive you is so interesting because she's like, no, this is 12 minutes. No, absolutely not. We're not doing that. And I think it's awesome that she drove to a hospital that she has privileges of that, knowing they'll get her in. Like, she knew who to call. Right. She knew who to call, how to

Heather:

They

Kiona:

get.

Heather:

were expecting us. She'd

Kiona:

Yeah.

Heather:

already called and they were waiting.

Kiona:

Yeah. And that's the best. mean, that is what a transfer should look like, is that kind of smoothness. It's not always that by any means. But I also can only imagine what's going through your mind when you are seeing all of the lights of the hallway past you and you're seeing everybody, like, barking orders, like, all of that. The way that you said that is such a good visualization because, I mean, they also show that in, like, films or TV shows, right? Like, when you're looking and you just see the lights of the hall and you just see the peripheral of the person pushing the gurney quickly. with high intention. Yeah.

Heather:

Yeah.

Kiona:

Man, that's a lot. And Yeah. to hear the words, put her out, put her under, that, that would have freaked me out.

Heather:

I was holding my midwife, like, you know, I was holding my midwife's hand at that point. She was there the whole time with my hand. But, man, She squeezed my hand and she whispered in my ear, it'll be fine.

Kiona:

Hmm.

Heather:

That's what she said to me. So, but I will say that I do credit her with, she saved my baby's life. She saved my life. If we had waited, there would not have been time. It

Kiona:

Yeah.

Heather:

would not have been in time. So,

Kiona:

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Good for her. She, she was like, she

Heather:

yep,

Kiona:

knew from her

Heather:

she was

Kiona:

experiences

Heather:

amazing.

Kiona:

that

Heather:

Yeah.

Kiona:

it needed to change. Yeah.

Heather:

Yeah. I

Kiona:

Yeah. And I will also say you got to give some credit to yourself for asking for that cervical exam.

Heather:

I knew

Kiona:

Because if

Heather:

something

Kiona:

you

Heather:

wasn't

Kiona:

didn't,

Heather:

right.

Kiona:

yeah.

Heather:

Something felt funny.

Kiona:

And And I think that's a really important point for listeners, right? Whether it's your first time, second

Heather:

Mm-hmm.

Kiona:

time, seventh time, 12th time being pregnant and going into labor. When you feel that something isn't right, there's never anything wrong with asking

Heather:

Yes.

Kiona:

Ever. ever. Because

Heather:

Always. Always

Kiona:

even

Heather:

speak

Kiona:

if,

Heather:

up. Yes.

Kiona:

right, because even if you are this person that is like going in and out of the hospital because you're listening and you're like, nope, I don't like that. Okay. No, nope. I don't like that. And you go in every time, do it, be that person.

Heather:

Yes.

Kiona:

It does, it does no harm to anyone to do, to be that person and speak up

Heather:

And look, it could save someone's life.

Kiona:

Yeah, yeah, it really could. It really, really could. So let's talk about the moment you woke up. What was it like for you from there?

Heather:

that second that I woke up, it was pure, unadulterated fear, truly, because my baby was not in the room. And so I honestly didn't know if she'd made it. I didn't know if she was okay. and since they put me out fast, I was, I was way drugged up. So, it was, I had a lot of anesthetic in me. And my partner was sleeping. And I couldn't find the call button, I just needed to know if my baby was okay. I actually happened to wave at a nurse walking outside my door who came in. And I had to ask her, I had to ask her, I had to ask her, I had to ask her, is she okay? And they said, well, she's alive. She's in the NICU right now. But, we're going to give it some time and see. So,

Kiona:

Mm-hmm.

Heather:

yeah.

Kiona:

Yeah. Yeah. So what happened with Mason? Why didn't they say she was okay?

Heather:

Because she had a lot of, she had aspirated fluid, um, not meconium. There was not any meconium as far as anyone could tell. But she had aspirated a lot of fluid. And they're, they never did say, I assume, amniotic fluid or body fluid. I have no idea. Um, but something was going on with her lungs. And so she stayed for, gosh, two or three days. Um, I got to peek at her. And they did let me hold briefly before they brought her back. but but obviously she did turn out to be fine. She had to have a lot of suctioning, a lot of things like that. But but thankfully she was perfect. that's really all that mattered to me. It didn't matter to me that anything else, even though it was all scary and dangerous, the only thing that mattered was that she was perfect.

Kiona:

Yeah,

Heather:

Mm-hmm.

Kiona:

Yeah, that'll really, that fact, right, of the mother's view of their

Heather:

being

Kiona:

baby being perfect can really push you through some

Heather:

Yes.

Kiona:

really hard times.

Heather:

Yeah.

Kiona:

It really can. And that actually leads into my next question of what was your postpartum mood like after experiencing such a fluctuation? I don't want to call the birth traumatic unless that's how you feel, but like

Heather:

I do

Kiona:

such

Heather:

feel,

Kiona:

a,

Heather:

I, that, I

Kiona:

okay.

Heather:

would say, for me, it was traumatic. I don't know about anybody else's experience, but mine. I felt it was, yes.

Kiona:

Okay. Okay. Okay.

Heather:

Yeah.

Kiona:

I just didn't want to put

Heather:

No,

Kiona:

that word onto it,

Heather:

I

Kiona:

you know,

Heather:

understand. Thank

Kiona:

with

Heather:

you.

Kiona:

that. Okay. So with experiencing that traumatic birth, going from such a calm setting to having it be complete opposite, how did your mental state handle that postpartum?

Heather:

Well, now, 23 23 years later, I know that I had some severe depression. I

Kiona:

Hmm.

Heather:

had some very serious postpartum issues. Then, I did not know that. I did not understand that. I was not, um, I don't want to say informed. No one needed to inform me. I was not knowledgeable about that. And

Kiona:

Mm-hmm.

Heather:

And that's something that, that I have since then talked to a lot of my friends that were pregnant or people that I've known. Just please reach out. And And that, that was something, um, it was just really hard. Um, and, and she was a colicky baby too.

Kiona:

Hmm.

Heather:

Um, Um, so she screamed 24 seven.

Kiona:

Yeah.

Heather:

So, and I was trying to recover from, um, a very, I mean, C-sections are always fast, but a very fast C-section. And And, gosh, it was tough. It was, that was, that was a low, low time in my life, I would say. Definitely had

Kiona:

Yeah.

Heather:

some postpartum mood disorders. Um, I never felt like I was going to hurt her or hurt myself. But, man, the depression and, um, anxiety. I I had

Kiona:

Yeah.

Heather:

a lot of anxiety after that.

Kiona:

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And so you had mentioned before that you moved.

Heather:

Mm,

Kiona:

So

Heather:

yes.

Kiona:

you're now in a different location. Did you still have the same postpartum support from your parents?

Heather:

I did. Because they also lived in Arkansas.

Kiona:

Oh.

Heather:

That's

Kiona:

Oh,

Heather:

why,

Kiona:

lovely.

Heather:

that's why we moved. Because my mama and daddy moved here. So, we followed. Thank

Kiona:

Love

Heather:

goodness.

Kiona:

that.

Heather:

Because I needed that. I needed their support. Yeah.

Kiona:

Hmm.

Heather:

I was very lucky. Very, very lucky to have them again.

Kiona:

Yeah. Yeah.

Heather:

Yeah.

Kiona:

Oh, that's beautiful. That's beautiful.

Heather:

And, you know, now that I'm thinking about it, I also, my midwife also, um, came over quite frequently. to check on me, and um, we were having trouble with some latching issues, and she came, and she worked with us. She was wonderful. Yeah.

Kiona:

Yeah. That's awesome. I love that because I was going to ask that too about what your postpartum visits looked like. Like, did you have your postpartum visits with your midwife or at the

Heather:

Yeah.

Kiona:

hospital?

Heather:

Well, yes, both of them, actually. I did have to have some, of course, with the OB, because to check incisions and so on and so forth, But but I also had visits with my midwife, and she came to me. She came to my house, which was so lovely, so, so lovely. I did end up having a postpartum postpartum infection in my incision,

Kiona:

Yeah.

Heather:

so that was not fun, but, you know, resolved with a couple courses of antibiotics.

Kiona:

Yeah. Oh, that just sounds painful.

Heather:

Yeah, not fun.

Kiona:

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And so you did touch on a little bit that you were having some latch itch latch. You did touch on a little bit that you were having some latch issues. How did that become resolved, if at all? And how was your feeding afterwards?

Heather:

You know, I don't know that it was ever resolved. I think she just got big enough. She was my smallest baby. She was seven pounds. Let's see. Delicately, let me say this. I am quite well endowed. So, it's, nobody really tells you how hard it is to breastfeed a baby that is tiny, and your breast is bigger than their head.

Kiona:

Right.

Heather:

You know, it's hard. And I just, I felt like that was the Was was that I just have so much. And I also was an overproducer, and so I would choke all of my babies. It would, the

Kiona:

Yeah.

Heather:

letdown would just, so there was a lot of things for us to work But somehow, we made it, And and our journey lasted until she was a little bit over two years old.

Kiona:

Nice. Nice.

Heather:

So, yeah. Yeah. And it was, it was lovely, I think, once she grew a little bit, and it was easier for her, and easier for me to position her, I suppose.

Kiona:

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And then she could also, you know, hold her head up a little bit more

Heather:

Yes.

Kiona:

as she got

Heather:

Yes.

Kiona:

older and help

Heather:

Absolutely.

Kiona:

out with the whole latch situation

Heather:

Mm-hmm.

Kiona:

instead of having like a fussy floppy

Heather:

That. That,

Kiona:

baby trying

Heather:

yes.

Kiona:

to put him on a boob.

Heather:

And that, and,

Kiona:

Yeah.

Heather:

and you got that right, because she was a fussy, floppy baby.

Kiona:

Yeah. Yeah. And so after Mason, you had Cooper.

Heather:

I did.

Kiona:

Yeah. Yeah.

Heather:

I did.

Kiona:

Now third babies are wild cards. So of course I have to ask again, was Cooper planned or was he a surprise?

Heather:

Cooper was a wonderful supply, supplies. Cooper was a wonderful surprise. Also, was a birth control baby. So So, both of my boys. And I was shocked. I was not expecting it. But, I wanted five kids. I wanted five. So, I was all like, whoop whoop. Another

Kiona:

Here

Heather:

baby.

Kiona:

we go again. Yeah.

Heather:

Yeah, exactly. Exactly. So, no, I was, I was quite thrilled.

Kiona:

That's That's awesome. And so with Cooper, pregnancies pregnancies can be a little bit different, especially once you have a cesarean because of that more of a traumatized traumatized incision

Heather:

Mm-hmm.

Kiona:

area. so the way that people carry their babies could be a little bit differently. Did you experience any of that when pregnant with Cooper?

Heather:

I did not feel like I carried him any differently than the other two. I did have some twinges of pain along that C-section area, which made me a little nervous.

Kiona:

Right.

Heather:

But but the pregnancy was pretty average. I was pretty average. It was pretty average. Just, just like with my other two. Pretty average. Toward the end, I had some trouble with high blood pressure. Um, but of course, Cooper is a September baby. Yep, yep. So, I would say month seven or eight, you know, when it was in the, the depths of, of heat in Arkansas, 100 degrees plus, and, you know, 90% humidity. I was having some blood pressure issues, but they were watching it closely. never did it get to danger levels. So, and they didn't even put me on medication. So, yeah.

Kiona:

Good. Good. They were just watching then.

Heather:

Yep. Yeah.

Kiona:

Nice. Nice. Nice. And so was there anything that you did differently when it came to planning for Cooper's birth this time around?

Heather:

Yes. I had to search, search, search, search, search for anywhere, anywhere that would allow me to attempt to be back anywhere. and I found one place. And so that is where I decided to birth because otherwise everyone was like, nope, sorry. Once a C-section, always a C-section. And I did not believe that.

Kiona:

Right.

Heather:

I, that's, I still don't believe that. So so I, I found the one place in our area and, That's where we went. So, and we planned for the VBAC. I did have to make some concessions in my, in my birth plan. of course I wanted to go with as little intervention as possible, which again meant to me, no drugs that I did not need, no epidural, no, you know, nothing like that. However, the concession that I had to make was in order to attempt a VBAC, they required me to have an epidural

Kiona:

Hmm.

Heather:

in case there was some sort of incident they needed to, if they needed to get me to the OR fast.

Kiona:

Oh.

Heather:

So So that was my concession. Um, I did not want that, but it was either that or go anywhere else and just automatic schedule a C-section. I did schedule an induction day though, but that was me scheduling that because, you know, my labor with Noah was four hours. My label labor with Mason was under four hours. And And this hospital is about 30 away from my home. And

Kiona:

Yeah.

Heather:

And I was concerned about getting there. I didn't want to

Kiona:

Yeah.

Heather:

be having any babies in the car. So So I did decide to have, um, an induction, um, scheduled for September 15th, but I didn't make it to that. Yeah.

Kiona:

Yeah. Let's dive into that. Why didn't you make it?

Heather:

Because on September 14th, I was reading to my two other littles, Macy and Noah. And I thought, hmm, those are some strong Braxton Hicks contractions right now. And that was about 8.30. And And my then partner got home around nine and I thought, hmm, no, nope, nope. We got to go now.

Kiona:

Hmm.

Heather:

Um, so we packed up my other two, dropped them off at my parents' house and raced, I mean, raced to the hospital. Um, Um, thank goodness. Cause it was another quick delivery. But But when I arrived, you know, I had told them that I was coming and they knew that I was a VBAC, which meant they had to have, you know, is, and it was like, you know, nine 30, 10 o'clock at night. And they knew they needed to have an anesthesiologist, but they didn't have one at that moment in the

Kiona:

Hmm.

Heather:

building. So I was like, okay, well, I'm really fast. So we got to get someone right now. And And the sweet little nurse said to me, oh, honey, everyone says they're fast. And

Kiona:

said,

Heather:

I said,

Kiona:

Hmm. Hmm.

Heather:

okay, but I really am like, I really am. And so they're calling, trying to get the anesthesiologist to come. And they're like, oh, he said, he'll come in about an hour. And I said, there is not an hour. There's not an hour. And at that point, I still hadn't had a surgical, surgical, cervical check. I had not had a cervical check at that point. And, um, I said, you know what, would you just check me right now, please? And the nurse says, okay, honey, you know, in her little condescending way. And And she checked me and she said, oh shit. And I said, I told you. And I was at nine.

Kiona:

Yep.

Heather:

So So, um, I guess they quickly got anesthesiologist in, um, somehow he could get there faster.

Kiona:

Right.

Heather:

But, um, and I did have a spinal at that point. Um, and then when my doctor arrived, it, it wasn't good news. Um, because because Cooper was way too high. He was way too high. He, he was not descending. And, um, the only way to go from there, um, was just to have a C-section

Kiona:

Hmm.

Heather:

according to my doctor. I don't know. I have no idea. I just said, make my baby. Okay.

Kiona:

Right.

Heather:

So they wheeled me into the OR and it was different this time because I was awake.

Kiona:

Right.

Heather:

Um, Um, and and I was much less afraid because I knew this was happening. I knew what was going on. Um, my, my partner was there with me, but you know, in the midst of my doctor, um, doing what he needed to do, he started to curse. Damn.

Kiona:

Oh.

Heather:

Damn it. Damn. Oh shit. Damn it. And I'm like, what? And my partner, of course, stood up and looked over the drape and the doctor shouted, if you get up one more time, you're out. And And we didn't know what was going on. We had zero idea. We didn't know. And so that was really scary. honestly, I didn't know what happened until I I insisted that I have the operative report. And I read the operative report. And I guess what had happened was that the surgical area from before was paper thin. somehow somehow they say they don't know how that I maintained that pregnancy. They said there should be no reason why you should have miscarried this baby. There's no reason why your body could, I mean, it should have burst. There was nothing but thinner than a piece of paper keeping it all together right there. That's That's what the cursing was for. Everything was adhered. And there just was nothing holding everything in, in that surgical area.

Kiona:

Right. Yeah.

Heather:

So I'm I'm glad I didn't know that then

Kiona:

Right.

Heather:

because I was scared enough. But But my baby was out and he was fine. So So that's what mattered. And that was like

at 11:

12 pm. Mind you, we were dropping off my other two children at 9 p. At my parents' house, 30 minutes away. So So I hadn't been there very long before before

Kiona:

Right.

Heather:

I'd given birth. So,

Kiona:

Yeah, Yeah. It sounds like your body is just quick to birth for sure.

Heather:

Yes, yes, so much. And, you know, I would have loved to have, like I told you before, I would have had 5. I would have had 20. But I was told that it could end in disaster. I can't, I could not have sustained a pregnancy again. So,

Kiona:

That was going to be my next question was if

Heather:

yes,

Kiona:

they told you to not

Heather:

children. Yes,

Kiona:

have any

Heather:

yes,

Kiona:

children after that.

Heather:

they said, no, you cannot do this. As a matter of fact, during the procedure, after Cooper was out and taken care which I got to look at him. But I did not get to have him on my chest or anything. They took him. The doctor said, do you want me just to go and tie your tubes right now? And I said, no, Not not knowing what what had transpired.

Kiona:

Right.

Heather:

Had I known, I would have said, absolutely. But I didn't know. I couldn't sustain another pregnancy at that point.

Kiona:

Right.

Heather:

So So I told him no. But, you know, hindsight, again.

Kiona:

Right. Right. what did you end up doing to prevent pregnancy, especially knowing that you conceived two children on birth control?

Heather:

My then partner got a vasectomy. So,

Kiona:

Nice.

Heather:

because much quicker healing times. Much less expensive. Insurance was like, sure, we'll pay for it.

Kiona:

Yeah.

Heather:

You know. So,

Kiona:

Yeah.

Heather:

That was our preferred option.

Kiona:

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, you went through quite a bit. I think it was

Heather:

Yeah.

Kiona:

your

Heather:

It was his turn.

Kiona:

equivalent. Yeah. Yeah. It was his turn. Bad time. Yeah. Nice. Nice. Oh, my goodness. So again, I'm curious if you would consider that birth experience traumatic as well.

Heather:

I did not. That did not. I was scared and I was nervous. And I was a little bit angry. But

Kiona:

I Mm

Heather:

I,

Kiona:

hmm.

Heather:

I don't feel like that one was traumatizing to me as, as the middle one, as with Mason.

Kiona:

Right. Right.

Heather:

Yeah.

Kiona:

Yeah. Well, Yeah. Well, that is such an amazing viewpoint to have, actually, to be the person that went through this and, you know, you're telling us your story. And to for me to know that that birth wasn't traumatic for you actually makes me feel better

Heather:

Yeah. Yeah,

Kiona:

about

Heather:

it

Kiona:

what

Heather:

wasn't.

Kiona:

did transpire.

Heather:

Yeah.

Kiona:

one thing that I did want to mention is as a birth doula who does support VBAC clients, I have heard multiple times as well when they do end up in the OR, how the hell did this happen? Because I opened you up and it was like a window into your uterus and I could

Heather:

Yes.

Kiona:

see your baby.

Heather:

Yes. Yes.

Kiona:

Yeah. Yeah. one of the surgeons described it as they just put the tip of the scapula and it just kind of like, yep, like just

Heather:

away. Exploded

Kiona:

fell open basically

Heather:

open. Mm-hmm.

Kiona:

Which is very scary to think about, which is why it's really important to keep in mind when VBACs are safe, because there is always that possibility of uterine rupture throughout pregnancy and especially during labor because of, what your uterus goes through. But does that mean you should never have a VBAC or try for a VBAC? Absolutely not. I'm all for VBACs. trial of labor, all that good stuff. But you have to make sure that you have really solid providers and really, like a really solid birth team to support you in that

Heather:

Yes. Mm-hmm.

Kiona:

process. So, and to make your birth yours and individualized while keeping all of the research and studies in mind,

Heather:

Yes.

Kiona:

because each, each person's scenario is a little bit different. And so after having Cooper, you said they took him, when did you get to see him back?

Heather:

when I came out of the recovery room, they had me in recovery for a little bit. I, I don't react well to medications medications in general. Um, they seem to stick with me for a long time. And they make me very nauseous. And so I, you know, hung out in the recovery room, vomiting for a little bit and until I could get some of that out of my system. And when I was back to my room, they brought them right to me. So,

Kiona:

Oh, that's beautiful.

Heather:

yeah.

Kiona:

And

Heather:

Oh,

Kiona:

based off what you kind of touched on last time, you also breastfed Cooper.

Heather:

Oh, yes. All of my kids. Mm-hmm.

Kiona:

Awesome. Awesome. And how

Heather:

Yeah.

Kiona:

was breastfeeding experience?

Heather:

Fabulous. Fabulous.

Kiona:

Nice.

Heather:

It

Kiona:

Nice.

Heather:

It, it was, I mean, I don't want to say easy because honestly, I can't say that breastfeeding is ever, ever actually like easy because you, you get into a groove and it goes well, but it's

Kiona:

Right.

Heather:

hard. No one tells you that you have to learn. Baby has to learn. Your breast has to do what it's supposed to do. There's a lot of moving pieces in this puzzle.

Kiona:

Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, Yeah, that's very true. And so with Cooper, you now have three little humans in your life. What was your postpartum mood like after Cooper?

Heather:

You know, I don't remember a whole lot of that time with

Kiona:

Yeah.

Heather:

three kids under the age of four or five or whatever. Um,

Kiona:

Right.

Heather:

but I remember not being sad.

Kiona:

But

Heather:

It

Kiona:

I remember not being sad. Hmm.

Heather:

was a happy time for me. Exhausting, but happy.

Kiona:

Yeah. Yeah.

Heather:

So, yeah, I, I was lucky. I was

Kiona:

That's

Heather:

lucky. And

Kiona:

beautiful.

Heather:

again, my mom and dad were to the rescue. And sometimes they would, my mom was always cooking dinner for us or coming over to wash a load of laundry or taking my laundry to her house so she could do it or taking one of the older two to her house so I could just hang with one or the other. It was so helpful.

Kiona:

That is so, so beautiful and so important. Having that support network postpartum is so important. And I love how you were able to rely on your parents in that way.

Heather:

Yes, I'm forever grateful. I still rely on my parents, and I'm almost 50.

Kiona:

Yeah. Yeah. in the end, you have three wonderful humans. Tell me what your favorite part about being a mom of three was, or is, I should say.

Heather:

You know, sometimes that I remember that, of course, currently, I have three adult kids, right? One is living in Cali right now. One's in Kansas right now. The youngest, who's 20, he still lives at home with me. I'm lucky there. But I remember when all three were little, we were all cuddled up in my king-size bed reading books. Like, that is my I just remember us all being so happy and so into it. And gosh, it was just a good, good time in our lives.

Kiona:

I love that.

Heather:

Yeah.

Kiona:

I love that. I have three kiddos of my own.

Heather:

Mm-hmm.

Kiona:

So, you know, having all three in my little space here can be overwhelming, but also very lovely

Heather:

Yes.

Kiona:

and positive

Heather:

Yeah.

Kiona:

in its own way. So,

Heather:

yeah.

Kiona:

yes. So Heather, I have three final closing questions for you. My first question is, what is one piece of advice that you would give to all pregnant people to prepare for labor, birth, and postpartum?

Heather:

I have a couple that kind of coincide. You know, I have a couple that kind I have a couple that kind of books. I have a couple that kind of books. I have a couple that kind of books. I have a couple use that kind of books. I have a couple that kind of books. I have a couple that kind of books. I have a couple that kind of books. I have a couple that kind of books. I have a couple that kind of books. I have a couple that kind of every resource that you can get. There's books. There are videos. have a library. The hospitals offer free things. Do them all. And yes, some of them you're like, oh, I do know how to change a diaper. Of course we know how to change diapers. However, there's those little tidbits that those seasoned professionals sneak in there. And you go, oh, okay. I'm telling you, one of the best things I did was a baby massage class. Baby

Kiona:

Hmm.

Heather:

massage at my hospital was the coolest thing ever. I did baby massage at all my children. And I really think it helps with gas and calming and the whole shebang. But that, you know, that's my number one piece of advice. the other piece of that is that everyone has advice for you. Everyone.

Kiona:

Yeah. Yeah.

Heather:

Well-meaning, of course. However, you don't have to listen to it.

Kiona:

right

Heather:

You

Kiona:

Right.

Heather:

don't. You can smile and say, oh, thanks so much. I'll file that away. And, you don't have to listen to what the other people tell you. You can, but you don't have to. Do your research. Find out what's going to work for you. What you want. So

Kiona:

right

Heather:

those were two things that were important to me. Yeah.

Kiona:

Yeah, that's great. Totally, totally clear. And I agree. You should absolutely utilize all the resources that you have available to you. Even if you've had a baby before, like you said, get a refresher. And those little tidbits that you pick up, they are people's wisdom from their own lived

Heather:

Yes.

Kiona:

experiences that they're putting out there into the And yeah, I really with the only take the advice that seems to be meaningful to you, because everybody will have so much to say, and you can't please everyone. And no one can please you when it comes to telling you how you're going to parent your children. Like, take what works for you and leave the rest.

Heather:

Right. For sure.

Kiona:

Yeah, yes. So speaking of resources, what is one resource that I can share with my listeners on your behalf?

Heather:

Well, let me preface this by saying, obviously my three births were quite a long time ago So I am not really up on all of the most recent kind of resources. However, something something I utilized was the La Leche League.

Kiona:

Yeah, still around.

Heather:

that was something that, that I utilized in my journey with my littles. So I would hope it would help other people as well. So,

Kiona:

Yeah, the La Leche League is definitely still around and still doing amazing things. So

Heather:

I

Kiona:

that's a great

Heather:

know, I

Kiona:

resource.

Heather:

know that I, my daughter had a baby a year and a half ago. And, um, I know that I was researching on there for her. So,

Kiona:

yeah Yeah. Yeah. Well, congratulations on

Heather:

thank

Kiona:

being a

Heather:

you.

Kiona:

grandma a year and a

Heather:

It's

Kiona:

half ago.

Heather:

the best

Kiona:

And

Heather:

part

Kiona:

still

Heather:

of

Kiona:

a

Heather:

my whole

Kiona:

grandma.

Heather:

life. Yes.

Kiona:

Yeah. Awesome. Now, Heather, my last question for you is if you could describe each of your births with one word, what would it be?

Heather:

This is the easiest question you've asked me the whole time. Really, really, truly. It's transformative. Every single one of those births and those babies changed my life. Every single one of them. All for better. Best part of my

Kiona:

I

Heather:

life.

Kiona:

love that. that. Extremely transformative. And no, baby is born to the same mother. It's always a new mother every

Heather:

For

Kiona:

time.

Heather:

sure. For For sure.

Kiona:

Yeah. Yes. Well, Heather, thank you so much for sharing your stories on the birth as we know it podcast today. I'm excited that people will get to hear this and learn from you and also relate to you. Because so much happened in these three births. And I know that there are people that will be able to connect and relate to that. So thank you.

Heather:

Well, thanks for having me. I appreciate it.

Kiona:

Yes, of course.

Outro:

During this interview with Heather we learned some really important points. One point is to absolutely listen to your intuition and follow your body and listen to your gut because if she didn't do that she would have been in a really scary situation for her home birth with a footling breech. She also listened to her body during the VBAC attempt where she had to go into the OR even though it was a very quick fast moving potentially traumatic experience she saw it from a point of view where she felt like she did everything she could in order to get her baby out safely. Heather thank you so much for sharing your stories with us and being so open about the challenges that you faced as well as the positive points that your pregnancy labor and birth. You also brought to our attention that postpartum support is extremely important and the fact that your parents were there to support you throughout the process every step of the way even now is amazing. Now as for you listeners if you like this episode I would suggest that you also check out episode 71 with Valerie where she talks about her three very different birth experiences as well and touches on the importance of intuition. To look at the show notes for this episode you can go to BirthAsWeKnowAtPodcast. com/88 and as always if you are located in the greater Seattle area and in need of birth doula support contact me. You can do so by going to BirthAsWeKnowAtPodcast. com/doula. All right friends thank you so much for listening to this episode I look forward to talking to you again soon. Bye for now.

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Kiona Nessenbaum

Host

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