Birth As We Know It ™️-Birth Stories and Experiences

89-Katie Blaeser-Vaginal Birth-HIE-NICU-Zion

• Episode 89

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Katie dives into the details of the birth she experienced with her son Zion, and talks about how rough postpartum was for her after the traumatic birth she experienced, especially since Zion was diagnosed with Hypoxic Ischemic Encephalopathy in addition to the discovery that he has optic nerve hypoplasia. 

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Disclaimer: This podcast is intended for educational purposes only with no intention of giving or replacing any medical advice. I, Kiona Nessenbaum, am not a licensed medical professional. All advice that is given on the podcast is from the personal experience of the storytellers. All medical or health-related questions should be directed to your licensed provider.  

Tune in to episode 65-Angela Roberts-IVF-Miscarriage-Cesarean-Endometriosis-Preeclampsia-HELLP-Micro Preemie-NICU-Bennett to hear another parent speak about their journey through medical diagnosis. 

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Intro:

Welcome to Birth As We Know It, a podcast that is dedicated to recognizing the many different ways that birth unfolds. I am your host, Keona Nessenbaum. I have experienced birth as a doula, a student midwife, a birth assistant, and as a mother of three amazing children of my own. After attending over 140 births, I've realized that each birth experience is truly unique. So make sure you subscribe and join me as we are guided through many different birth experiences through the lens of the storyteller. Please be aware that some of these stories can be triggering to hear. So feel free to pause, take a breath, and come back and listen whenever you're ready. With that said, let's prep ourselves to dive deep and get detailed about what really happens in the birth space.

Disclaimer:

As a reminder, this podcast is intended for educational purposes only and has no intention of giving or replacing any medical advice. All advice that is given on the podcast is from the personal experiences of the storytellers. All medical or health-related questions should be directed to your licensed provider.

Doula:

Before we dive into this episode today, I have an exciting announcement. Your girl, Keona Nessenbaum, is back in the birth space as a birth doula. So if you are local to the greater Seattle area and in need of some birth doula support, please reach out. I would love to support you as you transition into parenthood. To learn more about this service, you can go birthasweknowatpodcast.com forward slash doula. Another service that I'm offering is called Labor Prep from a Doula Perspective. Now this can be done virtually or in person, so it's also available to those that are not local to the greater Seattle area. What this is, is a two-hour info session where you and I connect and talk about the best ways to prep for your labor and to inform you of what your options are. We also touch on how you can cope throughout labor, how partners can support you as you are laboring, and we touch on postpartum. So if you want to learn more about this service, go to birthasweknowatpodcast.com forward slash labor prep. All right, let's dive into this episode.

Kiona:

Hello, everybody, and welcome back to the Birth As We Know It podcast. Today, I have on Katie Blazer, and she is going to be talking about her birth story of her son Zion, and there's going to be a lot of good things for us here. So welcome, Katie. Thanks for coming on today.

Katie:

Hi, thank you. Thank you for having me. I'm excited to be here.

Kiona:

Yes, I'm also excited, and you're going to teach us some things today, which is a lot of fun. But let's go ahead and just start off at the very beginning. Talk to me about when you and your husband, Josh, decided that it was time to make a baby.

Katie:

So we weren't really trying, but we weren't not trying, I guess. he was conceived in December of 2020. So of course, that was right in the middle of COVID. We were all stuck at home, had a lot free time on our hands. And I actually really wanted to get a dog, but my husband said, I'd rather have a baby than a dog. So I said, okay, let's have a baby.

Kiona:

Nice.

Katie:

one day I knew I was ovulating. Oh, and this was also right around Christmas time, and my baby fever always just spikes around Christmas So I knew I was ovulating. He came from work, and I said, do you want to try? And he said, sure. So the rest was history.

Kiona:

Oh, I love that. I also totally understand, like, just the energy around the holiday season, and you're like, look at all these cute babies!

Katie:

Exactly.

Kiona:

Excited. That's great. I

Katie:

Yep.

Kiona:

love that Josh said, how about we make a baby instead?

Katie:

Yeah. Which I was not expecting either.

Kiona:

how did you feel when you found out that you were pregnant?

Katie:

it was about two weeks after I, hadn't got my period, so I kind of had a suspicion something was up, so I took a pregnancy test, and I think it was positive, but the, the lines were very faint, or, or maybe it was inconclusive, I don't remember, so I went out and bought some more pregnancy took one, and it was negative, but then I read on the box that you should take it first thing in the morning, so the next morning I did that, and it was positive, and I, I must have taken at least, like, six or seven pregnancy tests, some were negative, some were positive, some were inconclusive, so I just made an appointment with my went in to the doctor's appointment, and this was two days before Christmas Eve, or the day before Christmas Eve, I told her I kind of wanted to find out before Christmas so I could give it to my husband as, like, a Christmas present, um, so she ordered the test and put a rush on it so I could get the results that evening. because she put a rush on it or entered the orders wrong or something, they didn't get the results in, so they, they couldn't tell me definitively and said, you have to come back after Christmas, so

Kiona:

Bummer.

Katie:

I went to the pharmacy again, bought the most expensive pregnancy test that I could find, you know, the one that says, like, pregnant or not pregnant, very clearly, took that, it said pregnant, so I was fairly confident then by that point that I was, so I wrapped it up and gave it to my husband on Christmas Eve, and he was very surprised but very happy, it was quite a whirlwind experience.

Kiona:

That is actually super cute.

Katie:

So

Kiona:

when you gave him the gift, were you around other family or

Katie:

guys?

Kiona:

was it just you

Katie:

No, it was just us because, of course, during COVID again, our getting together because, you know, they didn't think it was worth the risk, so we did a Christmas via Zoom, and then after that Zoom call was over, we exchanged presents, just the two of us, so that's when I gave it to him.

Kiona:

Oh, beautiful. And so, did you guys wait a while before you decided to tell family?

Katie:

We waited about another month or so to tell our family, we said we had a belated Christmas present that just came in and gave him a picture frame with the ultrasound picture in it, so we went over to his parents' house, and they weren't letting anyone inside the house, so we had to stand in the driveway and give them this Christmas present, and then she opened it up. My mother-in-law opened it up and started screaming, it's a baby, and they were like, come inside, you're pregnant, you can't be outside, and we live in Minnesota, so it's cold, so.

Kiona:

That's

Katie:

Happy,

Kiona:

so funny.

Katie:

and then, yeah, we did the same thing for my parents, too, so.

Kiona:

Aw, that's

Katie:

It

Kiona:

lovely.

Katie:

was awesome.

Kiona:

They were so excited. So, is this the first grandbaby or one of many?

Katie:

It is on my parents' side the third on my husband's parents' side, so.

Kiona:

Nice. Awesome.

Katie:

Yeah.

Kiona:

So, tell me about how your pregnancy went. Did you have any really intense symptoms, or was it pretty chill for you?

Katie:

It was a pretty easy pregnancy. I was very tired the first trimester, like, more tired than I've ever been in my life, so I didn't have any kids at that point, so I could take a lot of naps. But other than that, I really, I had never had any morning never any kind of complaints. The only major complaint I had along the way was I developed pregnancy-induced carpal tunnel, which I didn't even know was a thing. I had the pins and needles feelings in my hand, and it was especially worse when I was sleeping, so it was kind of hard to sleep. So, I eventually started going to acupuncture for that, which helped tremendously. I would highly recommend anyone that's experiencing that, that really helped. took about a month or two for the effects to kick in, but it was hopefully. But other than that, no major complications.

Kiona:

Oh, that's really good. That's really good. And, yeah, when I first heard about pregnancy-induced carpal tunnel, I was also like, whoa, I didn't know this was a thing. It was surprising, but then also not surprising, because the body goes through so much when you're pregnant that you're like, what's new? What else? You know? Like, and that fatigue is immense. It is crazy. I will forever say that. I remember when I was pregnant, it was the same. Like, I just slept all the time. And then I had more kids, and I regretted the fatigue.

Katie:

Yeah, I couldn't imagine doing it, because I just have the one kid. Not being able to take those naps would be hard.

Kiona:

Yeah. And then, I mean, and then you still have to, like, work and do things,

Katie:

Right,

Kiona:

especially.

Katie:

exactly.

Kiona:

It's, it's especially hard when you're, like, not telling people about your pregnancy and then you're just walking around like a zombie and

Katie:

trying

Kiona:

to survive.

Katie:

Yeah.

Kiona:

So, at what point in your pregnancy did you feel that you were prepared for birth? Did you do any childbirth education or anything like that?

Katie:

Yeah. So, we did a online birth course, um, and I knew pretty early on that I wanted to try to do a unmedicated, kind of all-natural birth. So, um, we chose a, um, again, during COVID, they weren't offering a lot of, or really any in-person classes for, for birth classes. So, we found an online one, which I kind of ended up preferring just because we could view it at our own pace and our own schedule as we had time. So, that was nice. Um, we, uh, did some virtual tours of birth centers and I was debating if I want to do a birth center with kind of like with a midwife or a hospital birth. And I eventually landed on, I'm just going to do a hospital birth with a doula. Um, so I decided pretty kind of late in the game, I guess, in my pregnancy that I wanted to doula. So, um, once we decided that, we interviewed a couple and decided on one and started getting in touch with her to prepare for, Labor that way.

Kiona:

Awesome. That is so beautiful. And so, when it was the big day, tell me what was going through your mind.

Katie:

Well, so, about a week before my due date, I had a doctor's appointment and my blood pressure was a lot high. Um, it was, my blood pressure was normal. My whole pregnancy never had any symptoms. It was just this one appointment a week before. So, um, they did a urine test to see if there's any protein in the urine, which there wasn't. So, that was good. Um, so they said, just come back in a couple of days and we'll check your blood pressure again. So, I came in. So, I came in. So, that appointment was on a Friday. I went in the following Monday and my blood pressure was normal. So, they said, okay, come back in a week. Um, so, then, um, my due date came, um, and nothing, nothing was happening. I didn't feel any sort of signs of labor. So, me and my husband did all the tricks, like, go for walks and eat these foods. We went to a bar that served a labor inducer cheeseburger. It made, supposedly made 36 women go into labor.

Kiona:

Wow. Okay.

Katie:

For me, it was a good burger, but yeah, it didn't work. Um, yeah, there was really nothing happening. Um, so, I was getting pretty frustrated. Um, So, then, I think it was a couple of days, like three days after my due date, I had my next appointment. Um, it went in, my blood pressure was high again. So,

Kiona:

uh,

Katie:

then, I had a conversation with my doctor where she said, okay, now it's been high twice. And that, along with the fact that we're past your due date, I think we should induce you. And I really, really, really didn't want to be induced because I've just heard horror stories about it. And especially with trying to go all natural, you know, or, or unmedicated, I really didn't want to use the Pitocin and go through that process. So, I was a little heartbroken. Um, left that appointment and called my doula and my husband. And we kind of talked about maybe what's best, um, for me and the baby. My doula suggested that I try, um, doing some acupressure and using my breast pump to kind of try to get labor going. And then also do a castor oil smoothie.

Kiona:

Uh-uh.

Katie:

So, I called my doctor to see if she'd be okay with that. And she said, yes, but we still want you to come in tonight for, to start the induction. So, this was, like, at noon-ish. Um, so, my doula came over and we drank the smoothie. Um, but then I called the hospital and they said, we're actually too busy tonight to have you come in. So, sleep at your own house and call us tomorrow morning and possibly come in then. So, I was kind of happy to get that extra couple hours to see if I could get labor going on my own. And I had this whole plan of, like, the things I was going to do and the things I was going to eat. And, like, where I was going to labor at home and stay at home as long as possible until, you know, I couldn't, you know, go to the, go to the hospital when I wanted to go. But all of that was kind of going out the window now at this point. So, I was a little sad, um, but, but was excited to kind of get the process going and meet my So, it was mixed emotions for sure. Um, so, that night I went to bed and I could feel a little bit of contractions. Like, it was nothing major, like, sort of like a period cramp

Kiona:

something.

Katie:

or Nothing alarming. Nothing. I could still sleep and stuff. Um, then I woke up at 4.30 in the morning and was just so excited that I got out of bed because I couldn't sleep anymore. And by the time I got up, everything that I was feeling stopped. Like, it was, it was nothing.

Kiona:

Oh.

Katie:

So, yeah, I called my doula and she, we were both kind of bummed, but we said, okay, let's go into the hospital and get this process going.

Kiona:

Yeah.

Katie:

So, um, I went in, checked in at about like 8am. They checked me and I was at two centimeters dilated at that point. Um, and so they decided because I was already dilated, they weren't going to do the Cervidil.

Kiona:

Um,

Katie:

start me on Pitocin right away. So, um, they started, it was two milliliters per hour. I don't, I don't know what the dosing is.

Kiona:

Yeah. Yeah. It's usually like every 30 minutes for a while

Katie:

Yes.

Kiona:

sometimes.

Katie:

Yeah. Every 30 minutes and then increase it by two milliliters per hour, everything.

Kiona:

Mm-hmm.

Katie:

they did that and it was still like nothing. Like I could feel again, like kind of period type cramps, but nothing major. Um, I did also test positive for group B strep, um,

Kiona:

Hmm.

Katie:

before the, so I knew I had to be hooked up to get antibiotics during labor. And then also with my blood pressure being high, they had me hooked up to a cuff on the other arm. So it was basically an IV in one arm, a cuff on the other arm, and I was strapped to the bed essentially.

Kiona:

Hmm.

Katie:

Like I couldn't

Kiona:

So

Katie:

get up. If I had to go pee, they would have to come and unstrap everything. And then that's when I really kind of lost it because I had this plan and nothing like it was, everything was going exactly opposite of how I wanted to go in my plan. So it was, it was hard. I started crying and you know, Like I'm going to step out now,

Kiona:

Oh,

Katie:

but I was like,

Kiona:

thanks.

Katie:

I just need to, yeah, I just need a moment to like kind of grieve the process that I thought I was going to have in the birth plan that I envisioned.

Kiona:

Um,

Katie:

like really kind of being stuck to the bed was the worst part. Cause I wanted to labor on a ball and in different positions and be able to walk around the halls if I needed to and do all the tricks, go in a tub too. That was one of my requests is I knew, um, water would probably help me like either shower or tub. And I requested a room with a tub, but when I got there, I didn't have one. So I was also bummed about that. luckily eventually, um, they were able to flip over a room that did have a tub. So halfway through the delivery process, I moved to room and thank God I did because it ended up being a lifesaver.

Kiona:

Oh, Cool. I think that's so cool that they let you switch. Like I

Katie:

Yeah.

Kiona:

have not even heard that happening. So that's great. Like most of the people that get a room without a tub and they're like, dang, I really want to want like, they don't even have the option to like switch. So that's cool. That's awesome.

Katie:

Yeah. It might've been the crying that made them do it because maybe they felt sorry for me. I don't know. But it was, I'm so glad that they did.

Kiona:

Yeah. I think that's really cool.

Katie:

Yeah. Um, so then it was just kind of wait and see my, I was, you know, texting my doula every couple hours, letting her know that nothing was happening. At one point my doctor came in and suggested they break my water and said that could get things moving a little faster, but I was not ready for that yet. And it was kind of like, that's the last thing I really have control over. And I wanted to hold onto that and kind of let it happen on its own. And she was really supportive of that. She was great. Um, so he said, okay, we'll just keep doing what we're doing and keep increasing the Pitocin. and yeah, so eventually I think it was, yeah, so at 5 PM I had reached the max dose of Pitocin and still very, very mild contraction. So, at that point I was three centimeters dilated, so not much movement there. And this was, you know, about eight hours after I had been there. So not much progress at all. The nurse said the next step was probably going to be break your water. They said, if you want, we can like turn off the Pitocin, rest for maybe an hour, and then start all over again, basically back at the lowest dose and increase again. And the thought of starting this all over was hard to deal with too. And I was like, okay, let's, let's just get this moving. Let's break my water. So they, we did decide to move forward with that. Um, they did that at 8 15 PM. Um, when they broke my water, there was meconium in the,

Kiona:

um,

Katie:

in the water. So, um, that can be cause of concern. So they decided they were going to have the NICU team in the delivery room when I delivered just, just in case. So I said, sometimes that means nothing. Sometimes, you know, it can be a problem. So just to be safe, we're going to have the NICU team there.

Kiona:

Yeah.

Katie:

Um, when they broke my water, they said, is your doula on your way? Cause at this point we were just texting and she said, call me when you need me.

Kiona:

Right.

Katie:

Um, and she was, the nurse said, you're probably going to want her to get here pretty quick because things move pretty fast and they were definitely right about that. As soon as they broke it almost instantly, then I really started to feel things. Um,

Kiona:

Mm.

Katie:

so she got there pretty quick and I was kind of bouncing on the birth ball at that point. Um, oh, and at this point they had decided I don't need to stay on the blood pressure monitor cuff. So I was free to move around the room too. So that was great.

Kiona:

Yeah.

Katie:

Um, so my doula got there and the contractions were getting pretty intense pretty

Kiona:

sorry,

Katie:

quickly.

Kiona:

there's

Katie:

So

Kiona:

an

Katie:

she,

Kiona:

airplane going.

Katie:

yeah.

Kiona:

Oh

Katie:

I live by an airport.

Kiona:

That's okay. Just start the sentence over, please.

Katie:

Okay. Um, so I, my doula got there and I was, you know, trying different positions on the birth ball and she had me switch up my position every three contractions or so and kind of bending over the bed or, or bouncing on the ball or doing different positions. Uh, but then it was getting pretty intense. So I decided we were going to try getting in the tub and that was a huge relief. I cannot recommend the tub enough. At least for me, it was a godsend. Um, she had put like essential oils in the tub too, and had candles all over the room. So the lights were dim and I was putting like ice cold towels on my forehead and neck. So kind of felt like a spa minus the intense pain. But other than that, great. And it, it really helped me like get in the rhythm and she had nice soft music playing and it was, it was lovely. then let's see. Oh yeah. And, and once I got in the tub, I really lost all sense of time at that point. So

Kiona:

Yep.

Katie:

I don't, it all got very intense very quickly. So I don't know what the timing was, but at some point and a new nurse came in, they switched nurses and the new nurse wanted to check me to see how far I was dilated. So I got out of the tub and that was rough. That's when things really got rough because it was hard to walk. Um, just like in between the contractions were coming so fast that it was to move and get to the bed fast enough before the next one came. Um, so she checked me and I was five centimeters at that point. So I was happy that there was some progress. so they said, let's get back in the tub because you were happy in there, uh, got up and projectile did everywhere.

Kiona:

Um,

Katie:

And that's the other thing too. Right before they broke my water, we decided, me and my husband ordered food, which was a terrible idea because then I had all this food like right on the top of my stomach. So once all the heavy contractions started, it all came back out.

Kiona:

Hmm.

Katie:

So not, not a lovely site. Um, and yeah. And then when I got back in the tub, it was hard to get back in my rhythm again. Like I started kind of saying like, I don't know if I can do this. Uh, I might need the pain meds. And then my husband and my doula were both like, no, no, just get back in your rhythm. Remember your why keep telling yourself, breathe through it. So I did. I think I even said a couple of times, I don't know if I can do this. My husband was like, no, you got this. You got this. But we did have like a code word. Like that was our rule. Like you can say, I can't do this or give me the medication.

Kiona:

Right.

Katie:

But if I said, unless I said the code word, then I really needed the meds. So I never said it. So later after the fact, my husband said, you, you forgot the code word, didn't you? I was like, no, I remember it. I just didn't want to say it yet.

Kiona:

So, um,

Katie:

so yeah. And then once I was back in there, I got back in the rhythm again and started kind of breathing through the contractions and feeling much better. Um, at one point I started to feel very pushy, like stuff was happening down there. But so I said, I think I need to push. And the nurse said, well, if you want to get out, we can check you again. But remember how last time when you got out, you messed up your rhythm. So, you know, I really don't think you're at a 10 yet. So my suggestion would be to just stay in the tub. So I did, um, which I don't know if this is the right move or not, but I had to like scream through the contractions at that point and do the horse lifts, which those really help the, You know

Kiona:

right.

Katie:

that instead of like, because my doula said, you know, save your, your pushing energy for when you actually push. So try to not kind of scream or yell through the contractions, but more breathe through them. So that was good advice. Um, and then at one point the, uh, I think this was at like 1am ish. Um, the, the nurse said the baby's heart rate is starting to drop. So we need you to get out and we need to check you. So I got out, um, and a nurse checked me and I was, she said I was at nine and then another nurse checked me and I was like, no, you're at a 10. So I thought, oh my God, thank God. I'm so ready for it to be over at this point.

Kiona:

Mm-hmm.

Katie:

Um, so they said, okay, start pushing. So I did. And at this point, the nurses were just helping me push. The doctor wasn't there yet. And they said, oh, you're pushing is productive. The baby's, like, coming. So you need to stop pushing now. I'm like, how am I supposed to stop pushing?

Kiona:

Gosh, that's always so hard when they say that. It's like, oh my God, have you ever had a kid before?

Katie:

Yeah. Like, how on earth are you supposed to stop pushing right

Kiona:

Right.

Katie:

in the middle of things? Yeah. And so my doula was kind of like, you can apply, you know, like put pressure as much as you need to, to get through the contractions, but don't push the baby out, I guess. I don't know. So that was a painful 20 or so minutes waiting for the doctor to get there and be able to start pushing again. So she got there and started pushing again. And then after a while, um, I can't remember if they said the baby's heart rate was too high or too low, but they were really concerned about the heart rate. So they were, then it kind of, the mood kind of changed in the room and it got like a lot more intense. And it seemed like in between contractions, everything, everyone was very quiet and kind of like, okay, she needs to get this baby out.

Kiona:

Hmm.

Katie:

So I was pushing as hard as I could. I wanted to be over too. So, um, after about, so total, I was pushing for about 45 minutes and then he finally came out. Um, he came out and they put him on my stomach, but he was not breathing, um, was completely. Like a gray, it was really, like a gray blue color. It was, and, and I was so like exhausted and just like, thank God that part's over that. I wasn't really paying attention to what kind of what was going on. I was more just like, I'm so happy. This is over. Yeah. And so, um, my husband will say it's, it seemed like they were holding him on my stomach for way too long. Like they should have rushed him a lot faster. So I'm sure it was only a couple seconds, but yeah, they, they quickly cut the cord and whisked him away to the warmer to start working on him. And that's why it was, we were glad the NICU team was in the room at that time because he was not breathing at all. It was, it was terrifying.

Kiona:

Yeah. So at that moment when you realized he wasn't breathing, you said that you weren't even really processing what was happening because you were just glad the pushing phase was over. But once you did realize something was happening, what was kind of going through your mind?

Katie:

Um, it, uh, it, uh, it was confusion, but it was also just like, I almost disassociated from the situation. Like, um, like not really grasping kind of what, what's going on. So, and I was kind of saying like, is he okay? What's going on? And no one was really answering me. So, um, yeah, it was, it was scary, but also just like kind of no idea, no idea what's happening. Um, they eventually decided they're going to take him away to the NICU and my husband would go with him. And that was another time I was so glad to have a doula because then I wasn't left alone with the, you know, just the doctors and nurses. I had someone there to like comfort me. Um, a nurse was very sweet and she came over and said, um, you know, he, he wasn't breathing. We tried to do everything we could to get him to breathe on his own. Um, but he, he wouldn't do it. So we had to intubate, intubate him. Um, and we're going to, you know, take him to the NICU and see kind of what's going on and see what we're working with here. So again, I was, I still, I was just so delirious from, you know, I feel like I just ran a marathon and hadn't been awake for 24 plus hours at that point. And just, I wasn't really grasping kind of what was happening. So yeah, it was confusing time.

Kiona:

Yeah. Yeah. I can only imagine how confusing that is because when you're in that postpartum state, especially that immediate postpartum state, like right after you give birth, you are not grounded. Like there's so much that's going on around you. And especially with this being your first baby, you don't have anything to refer to, right? As to like, what's normal, what is the regular protocols and all of that stuff. And when things just start happening quickly around you, you kind of just have to go with the flow. And it's just being told things that you think you're going to absorb.

Katie:

Yeah.

Kiona:

And sometimes you don't.

Katie:

Yeah. And just really trusting that the doctors know what they're doing, I guess, is the main thing. You're the experts, I guess. Just do what you need to do to make sure he's okay.

Kiona:

Yeah. Yeah. And so knowing that this happened, we are going to come back to the actual birth, but I do want to ask this one question is, knowing that this was how your birth turned out, are you happy that you chose a hospital birth instead of a birth center birth?

Katie:

Yeah, I mean, I was very happy that we were at a hospital so that someone could, you know, take care of him quickly. Um, you know, on the flip side, it's, I wonder if this would have happened if it wasn't for being pumped full of Pitocin, you know, so it's hard to know. And I, I wrote in my journal after, like, kind of reflecting on if doing the unmedicated versus getting the epidural, what would I do again? Like, it's hard to know, like, the chicken or the egg type of thing. Like, is the medication what caused the complications or, you know, would the complications have happened regardless if I got the medications or not, you know? So it's, it's hard to know. I think in hindsight, I probably would have regretted if I got the epidural because I wanted to prove to myself that I could do it too. So I think I am happy, but yeah, I, I was definitely glad we were at a facility that could take care of him pretty quickly.

Kiona:

Yeah, yeah. And that, I understand that process of trying to figure out like the chicken or the egg, what comes

Katie:

Mm-hmm.

Kiona:

first? Because there are so many horror stories, unfortunately, about like what in-hospital birth looks like when interventions start to come into play. But it's also hard because interventions are absolutely necessary sometimes and so helpful sometimes. And so it's really hard to, you know, process that. So I think that it's really good that you did take some time after your breath to journal on that and to look at your notes and refer back to them and know and remember how you felt in those moments. Yeah. And then to also know that it's not your fault, right? Like the decisions that you made in the moment were with the information that you had at the time. And so it's what you felt was good at that time. And everything turned out fine, right? Everything. Mm-hmm.

Katie:

Yeah.

Kiona:

Thank you.

Katie:

on?

Kiona:

What was going

Katie:

chill me out. Yeah. And he kind of explained that that's like the worst possible thing that could happen during birth. Um, it can, some kids are fine and we don't know exactly how long oxygen was cut off. So the length of time would really matter too. And we won't know right away what the long-term effects of that will be. Um, you know, some kids can develop severe disabilities from, from that. Um, some, yeah. So there's a, there's a range of, of outcomes. Um, so what they decided to do was, um, do a cooling treatment. Um, so they keep him cold. I can't remember what the temperature is. Um, I think it was like 92 degrees or something just sort of below body temperature, but they keep him cold for 72 hours to try to delay or prevent any brain damage. Um, like they compared it to people have that jump, that fall at a icy lake. Sometimes have better outcomes because of the cold temperature of the water. So they think that cooling him for, for 72 hours. So they basically had to strap him up at that point to a lot of machines and wires. And yeah, so, um, they were, they said they were going to monitor him closely for the next couple of days and he would be in the NICU for a while. Um, so once they got me all stitched up and ready, then I could go see him in the NICU. Um, so the NICU room, you know, they have a bunch of different babies, um, all over. And I felt so terrible that I didn't know which baby was mine. Like I walked in there thinking like, I should know what he looks like. And I didn't. And that just felt so weird. And I realized I hadn't even seen him yet because they'd put him on my stomach, but I didn't get to look at him. And then they whisked him away. And so my first time seeing him was in the NICU hooked up to all these wires. Um, and there was a lot of nurses and doctors kind of working on them and I'm not even sure what they were doing, but it was a lot going on. they said that they think he might've had a seizure because, um, he was smacking his lips and kicking his, bicycling his legs, which is symptoms that infants,

Kiona:

Um,

Katie:

um, go through when they're having a seizure. So because of that, they wanted to hook him up to all these electrodes on his head and have a, uh, neurologist monitor him for that time as well. So he was really covered in wires in his little body. It was very heartbreaking to see.

Kiona:

Yeah. Yeah. Gosh, I never thought of that, of, you know, having not had the chance to see your baby before they're whisked away and then to go into the NICU and not know what your baby looked like. So you couldn't tell which one was yours. You're just looking at the label or waiting for someone to tell you, hey, this one's yours over

Katie:

Exactly.

Kiona:

here.

Katie:

It was so surreal.

Kiona:

Yeah. And I, I can only imagine the emotions that you were going through at that time because one, it's not your fault that you didn't know, you know, like you, they did what they needed to do in the process. Right. then, and then two, it was, you had stuff going on with you when baby was getting taken away. So like, even if you wanted to, you couldn't go and like, go with him and see how he was doing and all of that stuff. So that is interesting. Thank you for sharing that part. Cause that was not something that I had even thought about. Yeah. I wonder

Katie:

Yeah.

Kiona:

if there's other NICU moms who have been through that. I'm sure there are, but, um, other NICU parents have been on the podcast and they hadn't mentioned that. So I wonder, um, if there's some other ones out there too.

Katie:

Yeah. It feels weird. And that was one of the main reasons I chose to do a, uh, unmedicated birth too, is because I wanted that special like golden hour. And I, I read that it was so much better without the medications. And so I didn't get to experience that or, you know, have those first hour after birth of like holding them and, and snuggling them and bonding with them. So that was rough. That was yet another thing in my birth plan that went exactly the opposite of how I envisioned it to go. Yeah.

Kiona:

Yeah. Um, so, so what happened after he was settled in the NICU and he was doing his cooling treatment and you, did you go back down to the room to have your postpartum time? And then what did it look like after that?

Katie:

Yeah. So by the time I, um, saw him in the NICU, um, and then got back to my room to go to sleep, it was like five in the morning or something by this point. So I was exhausted and just passed out for a couple hours. Um, and then woke up and. Showered and then went to see him again. It was just sort of awkward visiting him and, you know, I wanted to be near him and by him, but just, I couldn't hold him.

Kiona:

Yeah.

Katie:

So, I mean, I could touch him and like feel his hands and arms and stuff, but he was, most of him was covered in wires or IVs or feeding tube and, you know, all these different things. So it was just hard to, first of all, see him like that. And then also just, you know, like I can't just sit here and stare at you all day. So,

Kiona:

Right. I,

Katie:

I struggled with how much time to spend there versus how much time to go back to my room and rest, but kind of tried to go back and forth.

Kiona:

Yeah. It was probably at least a little bit reassuring knowing that even when you weren't there, someone was there with him.

Katie:

Mm-hmm.

Kiona:

You

Katie:

Yes.

Kiona:

know, taking care of him and

Katie:

Yeah.

Kiona:

making sure that he-

Katie:

Being constantly monitored.

Kiona:

Right. Yeah.

Katie:

Yeah. Yeah.

Kiona:

Yeah. Yeah. So how long, so how long was Zion in the NICU?

Katie:

So he was there a total of three weeks. So I, after the first day, I was sent home the next day. And that was one of the hardest parts too, leaving the hospital without your baby. I don't think anyone can prepare you for that. Especially, you know, like they wheel you in a wheelchair down to the front and then my husband left to get, the car. And just that part of being alone for that, you know, 10 minutes was so hard. Just like, I can't believe this is my life now. You know, I'm going home without my baby. It just didn't, it was terrible.

Kiona:

Yeah. Yeah.

Katie:

Um, so that was rough. Um, and then the next couple of days really were just, waking up and going to the hospital and spending the whole day at the hospital. Um, he, after the first, I'd say five or six days, he was stabilized. So, Oh, and then, so the, after the 72 hour cooling treatment, then they could take him off that. And then I could hold him. So the third day of his life was when I first got to hold him. And that was magical. That was amazing. He still was kind of hooked up to all the brain electrodes and in the feeding tube and stuff. So it was a little like dance to try to get, to hold him right. But I could at least hold him and feel him that way, which was awesome.

Kiona:

yeah,

Katie:

And then after about five or six days, he got moved out of his, uh, out of the NICU with all the other babies and into his own room. And that was great because it had a bed that we could sleep there. Um, and then, you know, a recliner so we could hold him and, and stuff. Um, so

Kiona:

I'm

Katie:

as far

Kiona:

sorry.

Katie:

as.

Kiona:

Are you tapping something?

Katie:

Oh yeah. Sorry.

Kiona:

That's okay. I

Katie:

time.

Kiona:

fidget

Katie:

I'm

Kiona:

all the

Katie:

fidgeting. Yeah.

Kiona:

I was like, it sounds like a, like a water droplet, but it sounds hard, a little bit harder. It's okay.

Katie:

yeah,

Kiona:

Um,

Katie:

sorry.

Kiona:

That's okay. If you want to fidget with something, feel free. Just have it be something softer so that it doesn't pick up in the background.

Katie:

Okay. Sounds

Kiona:

Okay.

Katie:

good.

Kiona:

Um, uh, so yeah, sorry, go ahead. He was in his own room.

Katie:

Yeah. So, um, he got his own room. Um, and after the, about the first week, they, he was pretty much stabilized enough where he was going to be fine. Um, we don't know, still don't know the long-term effect. Of the brain damage. If there are any, but, um, he did get an MRI as soon as he got out of the cooling treatment. And that luckily came back, didn't show any signs of brain abnormalities. So, we thought that was excellent news. Um, but still they said something could come up later. You know, we don't really know the long-term effects, but he's stable now enough where he, you know, we're considering him healthy. He just can't leave the NICU until he learns to eat on his own. So, that became the next struggle of trying to get him to eat. And the hospital is so rigid about the amount that these babies have to eat and the timing. So, it was pretty strict every three hours. Um, and I was really, really set on breastfeeding, but it was just so hard to measure the amount that he was getting from my breast, if anything. So, we were kind of forced then to do bottle feeding. So, I was pumping and luckily I was making enough, like plenty of milk. I didn't have to worry about that. I was producing plenty. But, um, they were feeding it to him through a feeding tube. So, we would try to bottle feed or breastfeed. And then whatever he didn't finish of the required amount, they would feed him in the feeding tube.

Kiona:

Hmm.

Katie:

And that was super frustrating because I thought, you know, babies go home and learn how to breastfeed on their own all the time. Like, why are we different that we have to follow these very stringent guidelines of you have to eat this much at this time. Um, so we were begging with him, like, eat, eat, just eat, come on, we just want to go home. And then I decided I'm just going to give up for now on the actual breastfeeding and just do bottle feeding so we can get out of here. And then once we're home, we'll go back to trying that. So, um, took him about three weeks and he got the hang of it and we were sent home.

Kiona:

Nice.

Katie:

So then we were referred to lots of different doctors and follow-ups after that, but at least we could do it from home.

Kiona:

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And the comfort of your own home is easier than having the constant, like, someone, for lack of a better term or visual, like, breathing down your neck and making sure everything is okay. Because I'm sure that that shifts from, you know, like, it's a little bit hard to balance that they're there all the time caring for a baby and I really appreciate them, but also, like, can we have some space? Can we try our best to be parents? Can we learn how to take care of our baby on our own?

Katie:

Right.

Kiona:

So I can only imagine the struggle with that there.

Katie:

Yeah, it's nice being kind of eased into parenthood with having all the, you know, monitors and stuff. He's surviving. He's,

Kiona:

Right.

Katie:

we're not doing anything wrong here, you know, and they kind of guided us, you know, taught us to change diapers and, um, you know, all this other stuff. But yeah, at the same time, having such a strict schedule and everything, not being on our own time was tough.

Kiona:

Yeah. Pros and cons to all situations, even if you were to go home directly alone, like, that's challenging in its own way, right? Mm-hmm. So, um, excuse me. Um, so, um, you had mentioned that they were, um, what was I going to say? I am curious, how much did Zion weigh when he was born?

Katie:

Eight pounds exactly.

Kiona:

Nice. Nice. Awesome.

Katie:

Yeah.

Kiona:

You see baby.

Katie:

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And so that, that kind of, the eating thing is, is ironic because, um, so when we were in the hospital about a week or so after he was born, they had an ophthalmologist come check him out.

Kiona:

Mm-hmm.

Katie:

Um, because I can't remember if they said his eyes weren't dilating enough or were dilating too much or something about the dilation. We wanted to have the ophthalmologist come check him out. So they came in, um, and looked at him for about five, 10 minutes and then said, um, well, his dilation's fine, but he has this other issue called optic nerve hypoplasia. And the doctor was very, matter of fact, very, his bedside manner was terrible. And he kind of just said, yep, this is, your baby has this condition. We don't really know exactly what, to what extent he has it. Some people with this condition are completely blind with no light perception. Some people just don't see like peripheral vision and we won't really know what your son's is until he gets older. So do you have any questions? And again, I'm still kind of like a little delirious and a little in shock. And I said, I don't think so. And he left in the nurse. Thank God she was in there too, because my husband wasn't there at the time. She's like, do you understand what he just explained? And I said, did he just tell me my baby might be blind? And she basically said, yeah. That was another tough moment.

Kiona:

Yeah.

Katie:

Yeah. So again, just kind of going into shock. Like what, what are we to go from here?

Kiona:

Right. Right. So is that diagnosis, do you think that, did they, hang on, I'm

Katie:

out

Kiona:

trying to figure question,

Katie:

this

Kiona:

my brain. Did the doctor say anything about that diagnosis being connected to the lack of oxygen to the brain?

Katie:

He didn't say, which I had that question as well. And we didn't really find out the answer to that until a couple months later. I just assumed that they were connected. But then when we met him later again, I think when Zion was two or three months old, he said, they're not related at all. It's the optic nerve is developed in the first trimester and it's nothing that you did during pregnancy or it's just something that happens sometimes where the optic nerve just doesn't develop. what optic nerve or ONH, we call it, what ONH is, is the nerve that connects your eyes to your brain is smaller than it's supposed to be. So it's just underdeveloped. So there's nothing wrong with his eyeballs. Like they see things fine. It's just his brain isn't getting the connections that his eyes are seeing.

Kiona:

So

Katie:

So for some people that, you know, that can range from people. And it depends on how small, some is just a little bit smaller than it's supposed to be. Some are severely underdeveloped. So that all affects how, what kids can see. you know, some kids will look at a picture of a bed and think it's a sandwich or something, you know, crazy like that.

Kiona:

Yeah.

Katie:

Um, some kids, um, just, yeah. And then with that diagnosis, it, because the optic nerve is right next to the pituitary gland, there's often a lot of issues with hormone deficiencies. so that could be, you don't create enough cortisol, so your body doesn't create that and has to, you have to take artificial, um, cortisol injections. Um, it can interfere with the hypothalamus, which is the case for Zion where his brain or yeah, his brain doesn't get the signals that his stomach is full. So he is constantly feels hungry and, you know, and is never really satisfied. So that's why I say it's ironic that, that we were begging him to eat, to get out of the hospital and now we kind of have the opposite problem where he just wants to eat all the time. So he's, he's a big guy, but we're,

Kiona:

He's.

Katie:

we're doing good.

Kiona:

Sweet boy, huh?

Katie:

Yep.

Kiona:

Nice. Okay. so, but before we dive into where your family and Zion are right now, talk to me a little bit more about what postpartum looked like when it came to feeding after you got home. Did you end up having a successful breastfeeding relationship?

Katie:

Yes. We got really lucky there. So as soon as we got home, I turned my focus to, breastfeeding, which took a little bit to get, I had to use a nipple cover at first to get him used to that kind of plastic feeling. Um, and then my, his pediatrician recommended you start with that for, you know, like three to five minutes and then swap it out. And that really helped. And then, yeah. So then after that, we had a really successful breastfeeding journey and I was able to breastfeed him for almost till he was two. So

Kiona:

Nice.

Katie:

yeah.

Kiona:

Nice. And so since you did just mention that he always seems hungry, were there any signs of that when he was a newborn?

Katie:

Yeah. Yep. He, he loved to eat. Um, he was not a good sleeper. The most he slept at a time was maybe two hours. So postpartum was really rough for me, especially when I had to go back to work after three months because he still wasn't sleeping. Um, so yeah, he, I was feeding him all night long. You know, he would, he would fall asleep initially for maybe two to three hours and then would wake up, would sleep for 20 minutes and then 45 minutes and 15 minutes. And, and so it took a long time, um, until he was about six months old. We had to do sleep training because I was losing my sanity.

Kiona:

Yeah.

Katie:

Needed

Kiona:

Yeah.

Katie:

to sleep. So, so yeah, that was rough. Um, yeah, it was hard. It, the, my, my mental health, like I, at the time I, I told all my doctors and his pediatrician that I wasn't dealing with any postpartum depression, but now looking back, I think it was at least postpartum anxiety. I was just kind of anxious all the time. And I don't know if that was because of the unknown of his conditions now or just the lack of sleep. Well, I'm sure it's all of the above, but yeah, there's a lot going on.

Kiona:

Yeah. I was just about to ask like in that postpartum time, how your postpartum mood was, because that's a lot of moving parts. And like we had mentioned before, with this being your first baby, there's nothing for you to compare it to. So like you're, you're going with the flow. And this is a situation for a lot of families. Like you are not the first person who has a first child with complications or conditions or anything like that. So you're learning along the way, but I'm just trying to think, how did you keep yourself sane? But also what did you do to, to kind of help yourself out?

Katie:

I don't remember to be honest. Luckily, my parents are living nearby and they're extremely supportive. So they would come over and let me nap, like watch him so I could take some naps. My husband was also very supportive. So he, you know, would take turns staying up all night. I still had to get up every three-ish hours to pump. But still, I would just go right back to bed then if he was on baby duty.

Kiona:

Mm-hmm.

Katie:

So, yeah, I don't know. I, that time period is such a blur that I, I just remember being miserable, but I don't remember what I did to cope, to be honest.

Kiona:

Yeah, that, that sounds about right, to be fair.

Katie:

Mm-hmm.

Kiona:

With any postpartum mom, like not necessarily feeling miserable all the time, but there are definitely moments of like just complete exhaustion and all of the days, men together because you're only sleeping for 30 minutes to an hour at a time and the lack of sleep that you have. I will forever say this and I know that it sounds crazy, but... The lack of sleep that you have in the postpartum time, especially when you have a child that needs, like, special attention, you are so close to death. And people don't realize that. Like, you are so close and you're just dragging along and then you're, like, responsible for this human being. And then you're also responsible for, like, trying to remember to be kind and respectful to your partners so you guys don't tear each other apart. It's just a lot.

Katie:

Exactly. Yeah. I know we, we said this and it sounds terrible, so I don't know if you want to include this, but I can see why they say don't shake the baby in the newborn phase. Like, you know, as, as not being a new mom, you're like, how could anyone shake a baby? But being in that, that stage when you're so sleep deprived and so exhausted and just so frustrated and not knowing what the baby wants and it, yeah. it's

Kiona:

Yeah,

Katie:

rough.

Kiona:

I'm absolutely going to keep that in because relatable. Like, that is relatable. Like, you, even though nobody ever goes into postpartum expecting to shake their baby or wanting to shake their baby or wanting to harm their baby, but when you are pushed to the absolute edge of your baby or wanting to come on, you're like, just, you know, come on, just please, I'm trying so hard. Like, just, you know,

Katie:

like,

Kiona:

and it's

Katie:

please go to sleep.

Kiona:

Yes. Like, I remember a moment. I don't know if I've mentioned this in a previous episode. I'm pretty sure I have, but I remember a moment, like, I did experience a postpartum rage because I was like, come on. Like, my daughter, my first daughter, she just kept crying and crying and crying. And I was so upset. And then my husband at the time was just sleeping peacefully while she was crying. And I'm just like, pissed. I'm so mad. So mad. And, like, I set her down in the co-sleeper. But I'm, like, so angry that I'm, like, punching my pillow because I'm so, like, I just want to sleep. I don't know what to do. She's just crying. And I love her so much, you know?

Katie:

Yeah.

Kiona:

But she just really, like, that energy is so real. And I think it's important to talk about because, you know, people that have had really awesome experiences or people that have not yet had had or people that have not yet had children don't really understand what it's like to go through those fluctuations of emotions. And so it's easy for people to judge on the outside. But truly, whenever I, now knowing I have experienced it and having supported many families through postpartum, I now know they just need sleep and they need rest and they need resources and they just need to be loved. You know? They just need to be cared for and held, too, because you were birthed into a mother the moment that you had Zion. You had no guidebook. You had no rulebook on how things were going to be. And then you're getting, you know, diagnoses tossed your way that you have not experienced before. So you, I'm saying, you're a badass. Like, this is crazy. Like, you got through so much and then you still had a successful breastfeeding experience. And you're over here telling me, like, you had no sleep at all ever and then still went to work. So I'm so happy to hear that you had a lot of postpartum support, though, too.

Katie:

Yeah. Yep.

Kiona:

Yeah.

Katie:

Yeah. It's a journey.

Kiona:

It really is. It really is. So now Zion is three and a half.

Katie:

Mm-hmm.

Kiona:

And so give us an update on where you and your family are now.

Katie:

Yeah. So he was followed pretty closely from the beginning by a lot of doctors and neurologists, ophthalmologists, endocrinologists, all the ologists.

Kiona:

Right.

Katie:

As far as the birth, we don't, at least so far, I think we're in the clear now that he's three. There hasn't been any sort of long-term effects from that.

Kiona:

Beautiful.

Katie:

So we're very thankful. I don't know. Yeah. I'll just leave it at that. Yeah. So he was cleared by his neurologist from a neurologist. Cool standpoint. We're still dealing and figuring out the optic nerve hypoplasia. That's kind of our main focus now. So he's not completely blind. He can see. But we know he can't see as well as his atypical peers. So that's led to some developmental delays. He's taken a little bit longer to learn how to walk and talk. But he is doing both now.

Kiona:

Nice.

Katie:

So he's meeting all his milestones just a little bit later than his peers. And yeah, it's something we're going to have to deal with this whole life. But overall, we're very happy with his progress and we're very proud of how far he's come.

Kiona:

I think that is so awesome. What a beautiful, happy ending, you know? Like, that is so cool. Um, I think that it's great. I'm also proud of Zion. Like, I don't even know him, but I'm

Katie:

him

Kiona:

proud of through all of this. Like, you know, it's just, it's just him getting the love and support from you and his father and family all around, but being a rock star.

Katie:

He's a tough kid for sure. Yeah. And he's such a sweetheart.

Kiona:

Yeah. And so I

Katie:

Yeah.

Kiona:

do have a question, actually. You said that he does have a little bit of vision impairment. It doesn't sound like this is something that glasses could fix.

Katie:

Right. Yep.

Kiona:

Yeah.

Katie:

Yeah, there's, there's currently no, like, treatment or cure, really, for optic nerve hypoklasia. Um, and yeah, because it's not an issue with his actual eyes, it's, it's more with his brain interpreting what his eyes are seeing. There's not a whole lot that can fix it right now. Um, there is a lot of research and, Scientific research,

Kiona:

and. Right.

Katie:

I don't know, going into, into the condition, but it is a fairly rare condition. So, um, not a lot of people know about it. So, yeah, we're hopeful. I mean, we're, we know he'll be considered legally blind for his whole life, but, um, At least, you know, he can see and experience the world somewhat similar to how we do. So,

Kiona:

Yeah.

Katie:

that's good.

Kiona:

Yeah. And so if he's legally blind, does that mean he will not be able to drive when he's an adult?

Katie:

Yeah. Most likely. Yeah.

Kiona:

Hmm.

Katie:

Yeah. We don't know exactly what his vision

Kiona:

Right.

Katie:

is.

Kiona:

I,

Katie:

yeah, I don't anticipate he'll ever be able to drive.

Kiona:

Okay. Okay. Interesting. Yeah. Well, Katie, I have three final closing questions for you. Are you ready for those?

Katie:

I'm ready.

Kiona:

Awesome. So, my first question for you is, what is a piece of advice that you would give to all families that are preparing for pregnancy, labor, and birth?

Katie:

I would say, um, have a plan of how you want things to go, but expect that things are not probably going to go according to your plan. I mean, definitely go in with the intentions of how you want to see them go, but when things don't go according to plan, take a moment to grieve that plan that you had. Don't let anyone dismiss you or rush that process. You know, take the time you need, but then really just focus on what's best for you and baby and making sure everyone's healthy.

Kiona:

Yeah, I think that's great advice. Yep. Just like I've said in previous episodes, you might have heard it yourself, Katie, is to have birth preferences and not birth plans, because nothing ever goes as planned. But just because it doesn't go as planned doesn't necessarily always mean it's bad. But if it's more of a preference in your mind than a plan, then it could be easier for you to, like, process that adjustment.

Katie:

Mm-hmm. Yeah, absolutely.

Kiona:

Yeah. So my second question for you is, what is one resource that I can share with the Birth as a Note podcast listeners from you?

Katie:

Not a specific resource, but I would say get a doula.

Kiona:

Yes.

Katie:

I don't know how I would have gotten through the labor and delivery without one. And even leading up to labor, you know, just having those conversations about being induced and what we should do, and weighing your risks and the pros and cons of every decision, it's nice to have a third party there that's really advocating for you and kind of giving you the advice. Because their goals are your goals, you know, versus

Kiona:

Right.

Katie:

the doctors have their own agendas. So having someone that's sort of like a medical professional there with you to guide you is amazing support.

Kiona:

Yeah. Yeah. And

Katie:

Yeah.

Kiona:

they're there

Katie:

And then...

Kiona:

for you.

Katie:

Yep. And then if there... I have a second resource, I guess, if that's okay.

Kiona:

Yeah, of course. Yeah.

Katie:

If there are any complications, I have found the Facebook groups to be extremely helpful. There's a different group for every condition. So for Zion, we had one for HIE after he was born and then one for ONH now, which we've learned so much just from those groups that things the doctors don't tell you, things that are helpful to know. So.

Kiona:

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I think that both of those resources are amazing. And shout out to your doula because, you know, she's awesome. I don't know her name. If you want to give her a shout out, you're more than welcome to.

Katie:

Linda. Lindoula. Lindoula. Lindoula.

Kiona:

Yeah. Shout out Yeah, that is awesome because doulas do truly have that effect because they're there for you and, they are medical and health professionals, or I should say they're health professionals, not necessarily medical because we're not trained in medical practices, but over the years, we definitely get a lot of insight on how things are and learn how to navigate that system to best support our clients. So shout out Lindula, you're great. And, shout out to all of those Facebook groups because it really does bring community back into a place where you feel alone sometimes. So yeah, I think that's great. Now, the last question that I have for you, Katie, is if you could describe your birth of Zion in one word, what would that word be?

Katie:

I've been trying to think about this because the words that come to mind are, you know, terrifying, heartbreaking, things like that, but those all sound so negative and it wasn't, a completely negative experience. I got a beautiful baby boy out of it. So I think I've landed at unexpected.

Kiona:

Hmm. Yeah. Yeah. That's a great word. And I also want to say that terrifying and, know, horrific, all of those words are also valid. Like that's an experience, right? And even though the outcome of your birth gave you a beautiful baby boy doesn't mean that you didn't feel those feels, you know? So yeah. Yeah.

Katie:

Mixed emotions for sure.

Kiona:

Absolutely. One percent. Always, right? Well, Katie, thank you so much for coming on the Birth As We Know It podcast. I'm so excited to be able to share your story with the world.

Katie:

Yeah. Thank you so much for having me.

Kiona:

Of course.

Outro:

During this episode with Katie, it is very clear that she has some really strong, deep emotions with how her birth with Zion went. And she also gave us a really educational, informational episode where she talks about HIE and how it impacts Zion. Katie, thank you so much for sharing your story. And I really appreciate you being so vulnerable with us. And as for you listeners, if you enjoyed this episode, I would also suggest to check out episode 65 with Angela Roberts. In that episode, she discusses her experience with IVF, miscarriage, cesarean, endometriosis, preeclampsia, help, and having a micro preemie that ends up in the NICU. Now to learn more about this current episode and to look at the show notes, you can go to birthasweknowitpodcast.com forward slash 89 and you will see a beautiful photo of Katie, her husband, Josh, and their son Zion. And if you want to become part of the Birth As We Know It podcast community, you can go to birthasweknowitpodcast.com forward slash community. And that'll lead you to our Facebook group. Go ahead and click to join. It's completely free and we'd love to see you there. All right, friends, talk to you soon. Bye for now.

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Kiona Nessenbaum

Host

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